From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" <hetter at xs4all.nl> on 2007.03.20 at 06:13:27(15453)|
I KNEW that, I KNEW that................
>It was in honor of your MIND
> Well, it is not my immediate business (the question
> is not addressed to me), but this Australian Brugmansia guy is talking
> about "gargantuan" Amorphophallus cultivar named after
> me................. Somehow there is a (hardly) hidden hint in there. I
> will send a lawyer upon everyone's feeble body who uses my name in
> dishonour.............and this lawyer will clean you out in no
> color=#0000ff size=2>
> color=#0000ff size=2>Wilbert
> may I have permission to quote your remarks on cultivar
I hesitate, with Wilbert and Gearoge's
> great experience present here, to suggest how to move forward! But only
> briefly lol. I don't mind being shot down in flames and will probably
> learn something useful as I am currently up to the armpits in cultivar
> registration for another group (Brugmansia)
Given that this
> has got off to false starts, I would strongly advocate not trying to
> create an all-encompassing system first off: that looks to me as though it
> would all fall over again. Adopt the KISS principle and get something
> happening which can be improved in time.
Also remember that
> cultivar registration is voluntary: if the system created is onerous and
> boring to comply with, people won't.
> misunderstanding is that cultivar registration is equivalent to cultivar
> naming, It is not. A cultivar can be named (i.e.
> the name formally established) in almost any form of publication (bar
> newspapers and a few other things (see 2004 Code)). So if you name a cv in
> a printed nursery catalogue and there is even a one-word description of
> it, and the publication is dated, the name is established provided it
> meets some other technical requirements (which most cultivar epithets do).
> Registration simply means that the ICRA accepts that the cultivar has been
> properly named somewhere and has incorporated it into its Register (which
> can be nothing more elaborate than an excel spreadsheet or even a
> scrap-book!). The Registration process is there to assist the ICRA in
> gathering the information it is responsible for managing.
> ICRA for Aroids IAS sh/could (I suggest) devote some pages ("ICRA pages")
> at the back of Aroideana to the publication of new cultivar names
> (if this is not happening already -
> sorry, I am out of touch!). Later these pages can also be used to publish
> determinations on the validity of names where issues arise that need a
A simple format for publishing a new cv is
Amorphophallus 'Wilbert's Surprise'
Seed parent: A. titanum (un-named clone);
> Pollen parent: A. prainii (un-named
Hybridiser: George W. Bush; Seedling Parent
> [if different from hybridiser]: Tony Blair
> Discoverer: John Howard (if the cultivar has in effect been 'found'
> - in the wild, as an accidental seedling, as a sport
Origin: USA; Introduced: 2006
> features: Spathe xxx, etc etc (keeping this to the minimum necessary
> to capture the distinctive points). Note: this may evolve into
> the bulk of a
> registration form designed around different genera/tribes, but I
> suggest do this when the need arises and when you know exactky why it is
> needed rather than designing elaborate registration forms up
Name established: here [or if publishng a
> cultivar whose name is established elsewhere, give the
IMO this covers the key stuff to start with.
> this (or something sinmilar) is adopted it may encourage people to publish
> cultuvars in Aroideana rather than in obscure price lists printed off a
> home PC - which is currently permitted under the 2004 Code and is a
> $%^&#@ nuisance!.
2. An online Register is set up to, at first,
> accommodate the new cultivars published in Aroideana with the same
> information and pics, and to which are added all established cultivar
> names in Araceae as they are gathered up by the Registrar and
> anyone assisting over time!
The online registry includes the
> template for publishing new cvs in Aroideana (outlined above), and
> Aroid-L, IAS website and perhaps Dave;s Garden are used to announce the
> deadlines for submission of new cultivars for establishmens in Aroideana
> each year. As the designated ICRA you are, I believe, responsible fior
> providing this service to members and non-members alike.
> to me to be the minimum necessary to make this work. I have not discussed
> nomenclatural standards and other recomendations of the Code, in the
> belief that f you try to do it all perfectly at once it all just seems too
Apologes if you have been over all this
> From: "Julius Boos" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?
> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:33:21 +0000
> >>From : Alistair Hay <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >Reply-To : Discussion of aroids <email@example.com>
> >Sent : Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:14 AM
> >To : firstname.lastname@example.org
> >Subject : RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?
> >Dear aroid Friends,
> >First off, thanks to my friends George Schmid, Wilbert
> >and Alistair Hay for their most informative comments on
> >I wrote to the L on behalf of Brian Williams, so hopefully he is
> >better informed on what registering a cultivar
> involves. I guesss
> >the NEXT big hurdle is---where does he register an aroid cultivar,
> >with whom, and HOW does he go about doing so!! :--)
> >Good Growing!
> >Pared down to the basics, the only salient part of a cultivar that
> >comes under the ICBN is the genus. The cultivar name at the
> >consists of the genus name and the cv epithet.
> >It does not matter all that much whether the plant is a selected
> >man-made hybrid or a selection from a wild species or a
> >from a natural hybrid population. The thing that is to be named is
> >clone, selected for some merit, within a genus.
> >Thus: the gargantuan white-spathed Amorphophallus 'Wilbert's
> >Surprise' can be defined, named, established and registered
> >provided it is distinct from other cultivars of Amorphophallus,
> >uniform and stable regardless of what species or hybrid it
> is. Of
> >course it would be nice to have the information that it is an f2
> >hybrid of A. titanum and A. prainii, but that it not a necessary
> >piece of information to name the cv. [I have made this example up,
> >just in case anyone was wondering!].
> >The sort of problem that George raises would, I think, arise in
> >specific circumstances where there was an intention to transfer a
> >latin botanical epithet into a cultivar name. This can only be
> >where the entire taxon is a clone. A possible example is Aliocasia
> >zebrina var tigrina: If it can be demonstrated that var. tigrina
> >a clone then that botanical varietal epithet can become the
> >epithet as in Alocasia 'Tigrina'. If it is not clear whether var.
> >tigrina is a clone then there are simpler solutions than DNA and
> >field analysis. Either don't transfer the latin epithet at all, or
> >translate it into a contemporary language e.g. Alocasia 'Tigrine'
> >applied to the cultivated clone known now as "tigrina". That way
> >exact status of the botanical variety does not need to be found
> >at all, while a familiar name (slightly adjusted) can be retained
> >a cultivar epithet.
> >What I am getting at is that the issues which George raises, while
> >valid, should not necessarily create the impression of vast
> >to getting things going with Aroid cv classifictaion.
> > From: "W. George Schmid"
> > Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
> > To: "'Discussion of aroids'"
> > Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Names for
> different forms?
> > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:11:33 -0400
> > >