P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc.

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2002.01.23 at 15:03:02(8042) Dear Friends, Just a note towards attempting to straighten out the true I.D. of a Philodendron sp. that has been around for some time under quite a few incorrect names. Photos of a plant in bloom submitted by Jim ('Hammer') Langhammer have recently been posted on the aroid-l site of Les Kallus under the 'already identified species' section with the correct identification of the plant as Philodendron tortum Mayo and Soares (in press). I am told that it occurs naturally in E. Brazil (Eduardo, please confirm?). A single leaf of this species is illustrated in 'The Genera of Araceae' on pg. 171, 'D' , and incorrectly I.D.`d as P. angustisectum. Two different vars. or collections of this same plant, one with thinner, more delicate leaf divisions than the other but both the same species have for years been sold by Albert & Merkle Bros. Inc. here in Florida as P. 'pinnatifidium' and P. 'distantilobum', both incorrect names for this distinctive plant. Mr. Merkle, who is an amazing 90 years old and still very active and works at his nursery every day, told me that he no longer recalls the source of his two parent plants, but that he used to travel to collect plants in various countries in S. America including Brazil back in the 'old days'. You may recall Mr. Merkle`s table at several of the last IAS shows in Miami where I saw several small pots of these plants for sale in mis-labeled 4" pots for around $5.00 each. I believe that Denis at Silver Chrome produced a number of these plants from tissue culture several years ago and it was marketed to bulk outlets such as 'Frank`s Nursery' chain up North chain as and perhaps others USA-wide as 'Spider Philodendron'. (any info on the source of your original plant, Denis?). SO---anyone who has a slow-growing, compact spider-leaf Philo. sp. that has the following features can now place an ID tag on it with confidence! You plant should be fairly compact-growing, and as an adult plant demonstrate a short, very thick, curved and claw-like structure at the base of the leaves. The specific name 'tortum' is reference to this distinctive and obvious feature on this species. I have recently seen another Philodendron species in a friend`s g/house that also has finely-divided leaves, but this species 'vines' everywhere and the internodes are thinner than a pencil and LONG between leaves, perhaps 10-12", while the internodes of true P. tortum are around 4" long and with angles, as thick as a finger or thumb, creating a much more 'compact' plant. My hope is that this posting may clear up SOME of the confusion surrounding this wonderful aroid. Thanks to Jim Langhammer and many others who provided information and showed me specimens. Good growing, Julius Boos +More WPB, FLORIDA. ju-bo@msn.com

From: Tom Croat Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2002.01.23 at 18:41:14(8051) Title: RE: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. Julius: The plant you are talking about is P. tortum alright. I have collected it in Acre and seen it in Amazonas as well. The type is from north of Manaus. tom +More -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Subject: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. Dear Friends, Just a note towards attempting to straighten out the true I.D. of a Philodendron sp. that has been around for some time under quite a few incorrect names. Photos of a plant in bloom submitted by Jim ('Hammer') Langhammer have recently been posted on the aroid-l site of Les Kallus under the 'already identified species' section with the correct identification of the plant as Philodendron tortum Mayo and Soares (in press). I am told that it occurs naturally in E. Brazil (Eduardo, please confirm?). A single leaf of this species is illustrated in 'The Genera of Araceae' on pg. 171, 'D' , and incorrectly I.D.`d as P. angustisectum. Two different vars. or collections of this same plant, one with thinner, more delicate leaf divisions than the other but both the same species have for years been sold by Albert & Merkle Bros. Inc. here in Florida as P. 'pinnatifidium' and P. 'distantilobum', both incorrect names for this distinctive plant. Mr. Merkle, who is an amazing 90 years old and still very active and works at his nursery every day, told me that he no longer recalls the source of his two parent plants, but that he used to travel to collect plants in various countries in S. America including Brazil back in the 'old days'. You may recall Mr. Merkle`s table at several of the last IAS shows in Miami where I saw several small pots of these plants for sale in mis-labeled 4" pots for around $5.00 each. I believe that Denis at Silver Chrome produced a number of these plants from tissue culture several years ago and it was marketed to bulk outlets such as 'Frank`s Nursery' chain up North chain as and perhaps others USA-wide as 'Spider Philodendron'. (any info on the source of your original plant, Denis?). SO---anyone who has a slow-growing, compact spider-leaf Philo. sp. that has the following features can now place an ID tag on it with confidence! You plant should be fairly compact-growing, and as an adult plant demonstrate a short, very thick, curved and claw-like structure at the base of the leaves. The specific name 'tortum' is reference to this distinctive and obvious feature on this species. I have recently seen another Philodendron species in a friend`s g/house that also has finely-divided leaves, but this species 'vines' everywhere and the internodes are thinner than a pencil and LONG between leaves, perhaps 10-12", while the internodes of true P. tortum are around 4" long and with angles, as thick as a finger or thumb, creating a much more 'compact' plant. My hope is that this posting may clear up SOME of the confusion surrounding this wonderful aroid. Thanks to Jim Langhammer and many others who provided information and showed me specimens. Good growing, Julius Boos WPB, FLORIDA. ju-bo@msn.com

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2002.01.23 at 21:43:04(8052) Just a (not so) quick note: Philodendron tortum has been collected by me from Manaus area to Northwestern Brazil. I have collected lots of it in Acre state as well as in extreme Northwestern Amazonas state (near Tabatinga) so it is also probable to occur in eastern Peru and Eastern Colombia. It can be recognized by the finelly dissected leaves and hooked prophylls. True Philodendron pinnatifidum has very short stem and the petioles are usually purple-speckled. It is somewhat rare in cultivation. I also have collected true P. distantilobum in Acre and Northern Rondonia state, and usually it also have hooked prophylls, but the divisions of leaves are wider and fewer. Well, about P. angustisectum, I have to confess that I have never seen nothing that could really be reffered by this name. It also have finely dissected leaves, but doens?t seem to have hooked prophylls, and the peduncles are shorter than the spathe (they are longer than the spathe in P. distantilobum and P. tortum). Best wishes, Eduardo. +More > >Dear Friends, > >Just a note towards attempting to straighten out the true I.D. of a >Philodendron sp. that has been around for some time under quite a few >incorrect names. Photos of a plant in bloom submitted by Jim ('Hammer') >Langhammer have recently >been posted on the aroid-l site of Les Kallus under the 'already identified >species' section with the correct identification of the plant as >Philodendron tortum Mayo and Soares (in press). I am told that it occurs >naturally in E. Brazil (Eduardo, please confirm?). A single leaf of this >species is illustrated in 'The Genera of Araceae' on pg. 171, >'D' , and incorrectly I.D.`d as P. angustisectum. Two different vars. >or >collections of this >same plant, one with thinner, more delicate leaf divisions than the other >but both the same species have for years been sold by Albert & Merkle Bros. >Inc. here in Florida as P. 'pinnatifidium' and P. 'distantilobum', both >incorrect names for this distinctive plant. Mr. Merkle, who is an amazing >90 years old and still very active and works at his nursery every day, told >me that he no longer recalls the source of his two parent plants, but that >he used to travel to collect plants in various countries in S. America >including Brazil back in the 'old days'. You may recall Mr. Merkle`s >table >at several of the last IAS shows in Miami where I saw several small pots of >these plants for sale in mis-labeled 4" pots for around $5.00 each. >I believe that Denis at Silver Chrome produced a number of these plants >from tissue culture several years ago and it was marketed to bulk outlets >such as 'Frank`s Nursery' chain up North chain as and perhaps others >USA-wide as 'Spider Philodendron'. (any info on the source of your >original >plant, Denis?). >SO---anyone who has a slow-growing, compact spider-leaf Philo. sp. that has >the >following features can now place an ID tag on it with confidence! You >plant should be fairly compact-growing, and as an adult plant demonstrate a >short, very thick, curved and claw-like structure at the base of the >leaves. >The specific name 'tortum' is reference to this distinctive and obvious >feature on this species. >I have recently seen another Philodendron species in a friend`s g/house >that >also has finely-divided leaves, but this species 'vines' everywhere and the >internodes are thinner than a pencil and LONG between leaves, perhaps >10-12", while the internodes of true P. tortum are around 4" long and with >angles, >as thick as a finger or thumb, creating a much more 'compact' plant. >My hope is that this posting may clear up SOME of the confusion surrounding >this wonderful aroid. Thanks to Jim Langhammer and many others who >provided information and showed me specimens. >Good growing, > >Julius Boos >WPB, FLORIDA. >ju-bo@msn.com > > > > Eduardo G. Goncalves Laboratorio de Fitoquimica Depto. de Botanica - IB Universidade de Sao Paulo Caixa Postal 11461 - CEP 05422-970 Sao Paulo - SP - BRAZIL e-mail: edggon@hotmail.com edggon@ib.usp.br Phone: 55 11 3818-7532 FAX : 55 11 3818-7547 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2002.01.24 at 14:23:46(8060) Title: RE: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. Dear Tom and Friends, It would seem that the question of the I.D. of the 'spider' or 'fern leaf' Philodendron had been solved, but the note from Eduardo in Brazil raises ONE more question, as he reports the P. distantilobum also has a claw-like prophyll, but is said to have less and wider leaf divisions that P. tortum. My question is if there may be a better way to distinguish these two ( ? ) species, perhaps by sexual features of the spadix?? I will go and take another look at the plants in Mr. Merkel`s collection, as you may recall he claimed that he had TWO species which he called P. distantilobum and P.pinnatifidium, but at the time I examined them I could see no differences, and I thought them both to be P. tortum. I will try to collect a couple of inflorescences if both plants are in bloom. I will add a couple comments here from friends that may assist the readers in their I.D.`s of their plants. From Jim Langhammer--- +More a) "the 'claw' is in fact the prophyll that encases the NEXT leaf and later dehisces. b) "On a mature plant of P. tortum, there is literally NO internode--one leaf base overlaps the next if 'top and bottom lines' are envisioned on opposing sides of the stem." (They are in fact very compact, beatiful plants!!) From Dr. Tom Croat of MOBOT--- a) " The type of Engler`s P. angustisectum (which we have here) is actually P. radiatum, so far as I can tell." b) Philodendron tortum USED to be called P. angustisectum. It also used to be refered to as 'fern leaf' Philodendron. c) Dr. Croat has collected P. tortum in Acre, Brazil, and has also observed it in Amazonas State From Eduardo Goncalves in Brazil--- a) Eduardo has collected P. tortum from the Manaus area to N. W. Brazil. It is commonly collected in Acre State as well as in the extreme N. W. Amazonas State near Tabatinga, and so is probably also in E. Peru and E. Colombia, and can be recognised by the finely divided leaf segments and hooked, curved prophyll. b)True P. pinnatifidium has a very short stem and the petioles are usually purple-speckled. It may be rare in cultivation. c) Eduardo reports that he has collected true P. distantilobum in Acre and N. Reodonia States in Brazil, and that this species also has hooked prophylls. [Eduardo, do you (or anyone else) know of a way to seperate P. tortum from P. distantilobum besides the width and number of the leaf segments, presumably only in adult plants?] d) Eduardo has not seen a plant that could be refered to P. angustisectum (probably because as Tom reports that the type of this 'species' can probably be refered to P. radiatum.) Eduardo reports that the peduncles of P. tortum and P. distantilobum are longer than the spathe, while the peduncles of P. angustisectum (=P. radiatum) are shorter than the spathe, and there are no signs of the claw-like prophyll. I hope that the above proves helpful to fellow aroidophyles! I look forward to further information on P. distantilobum vs. P. tortum. Julius

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2002.01.24 at 21:00:48(8067) I believe I have the plant you are talking about. But I have two philos that look almost a like. I thought they were the same plant till I looked closer. Here is a PIC of both plants side by side. If at let me know the names to both I have label's but I believe they both say P. distantilobum or ferns leafs philo. THANKS link to pic +More http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/bwilliams/images/dc6.jpg _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2002.01.25 at 14:10:07(8070) Dear Brian and Friends, Thanks VERY much for posting this photo, as I believe it illustrates immature specimens of the two collections of the same species ( Philodendron tortum), one with wider leaf divisions than the other that Mr. Merkle has been growing for many years, and selling as two different species, but in error. Hopefully Dr. Croat can and will confirm what I believe to be correct, and I understand that there may be an article w/ photos on the next IAS Newsletter of true Philodendron distantilobum, which should be the FINAL hurdle that clears up ALL the confusion surrounding P. tortum!!! Thanks again for posting the photo. Sincerely, Julius +More >>I believe I have the plant you are talking about. But I have two philos that look almost a like. I thought they were the same plant till I looked closer. Here is a PIC of both plants side by side. If at let me know the names to both I have label's but I believe they both say P. distantilobum or ferns leafs philo. THANKS link to pic http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/bwilliams/images/dc6.jpg _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Tom Croat Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2002.01.25 at 16:12:48(8071) Title: RE: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. Julius: The plant the left is probably P. distantilobum, but not quite so typical as most I have seen. The plant on the right is P. tortum. Tom +More -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:10 AM To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Subject: Re: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: RE: P. tortum a.k.a. 'spider Philo., etc. Dear Brian and Friends, Thanks VERY much for posting this photo, as I believe it illustrates immature specimens of the two collections of the same species ( Philodendron tortum), one with wider leaf divisions than the other that Mr. Merkle has been growing for many years, and selling as two different species, but in error. Hopefully Dr. Croat can and will confirm what I believe to be correct, and I understand that there may be an article w/ photos on the next IAS Newsletter of true Philodendron distantilobum, which should be the FINAL hurdle that clears up ALL the confusion surrounding P. tortum!!! Thanks again for posting the photo. Sincerely, Julius >>I believe I have the plant you are talking about. But I have two philos that look almost a like. I thought they were the same plant till I looked closer. Here is a PIC of both plants side by side. If at let me know the names to both I have label's but I believe they both say P. distantilobum or ferns leafs philo. THANKS link to pic http://www.angelfire.com/ky2/bwilliams/images/dc6.jpg _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2002.01.25 at 20:45:30(8072) I thought you might like to also know, I have another form that looks a lot like the Philo tortum but the leafs are even more thinner and more of a miniature I believe. It may just be a miniture or different form of tortum I am not totally sure. I will try to take photos of it soon. THANKS for the IDs on them. I have the tags already wrote up. +More _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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