variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon.

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2005.07.20 at 09:39:52(13193) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Monday, July 18, 2005 6:30 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. oncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius +More Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum From : Steve Ritchey Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.07.20 at 19:40:06(13195) Dear guys, I am sorry for being so busy these days. I promise I will take look tomorrow... +More Very best wishes, Eduardo. Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL. Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:39:52 +0000 Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Monday, July 18, 2005 6:30 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. oncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum From : Steve Ritchey Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.07.21 at 13:34:42(13203) Dear Steve (and Julius) I have checked the material and it could be a quite unusual Xanthosoma atrovirens cv. "Albo Marginatum" (Pocket plant), but I have a many doubts. Usually, the cited cultivar has a denuded portion of the basal lobes ("ears") and a different venation pattern. Xanthosoma maffafa also have variegated leaves (a.k.a. "Xanthosoma jacquini lineatum"), but not in this pattern. In my opinion, (based mostly in the leaf venation and leaf shape) it is a young variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium (the real one), so I agree with Julius. I have never seen this variegated form, but such monsters do arrive all the time everywhere! Very best wishes, Eduardo. +More Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. oncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum From : Steve Ritchey Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Ritchey" sritchey at shreve.net> on 2005.07.21 at 23:59:06(13213) Dear Julius and Eduardo- Thanks for your help in this matter. After Julius mentioned that the flesh of atrovirens tubers is yellow I decided to do a "chuba check" and found this to be true of all the different ones I consider to be atrovirens, whether they have pockets, flaps, or the blades are shaped like they are wearing Mouseketeer hats or not. The tubers of the plant in question have white flesh and the unvariegated parts of the blades are just green, lacking the the dark bluish tone that seems typical of atrovirens, so given the options I think Eduardo's opinion that it's sagittifolium must be correct. Is jacquini not a valid species and should this be more properly named maffafa lineatum or something else? Steve +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Dear Steve (and Julius) I have checked the material and it could be a quite unusual Xanthosoma atrovirens cv. "Albo Marginatum" (Pocket plant), but I have a many doubts. Usually, the cited cultivar has a denuded portion of the basal lobes ("ears") and a different venation pattern. Xanthosoma maffafa also have variegated leaves (a.k.a. "Xanthosoma jacquini lineatum"), but not in this pattern. In my opinion, (based mostly in the leaf venation and leaf shape) it is a young variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium (the real one), so I agree with Julius. I have never seen this variegated form, but such monsters do arrive all the time everywhere! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. oncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2005.07.22 at 10:11:01(13218) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Thursday, July 21, 2005 11:59 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Dear Steve and Eduardo, It certainly appears that Eduardo is correct, the varigated plant in question is a true X. saggitifolium. Perhaps a quick history is in order---previously to Eduardo`s visit tio Miami, the huge Xanthosomas w. the conspicous bare areas on veins at the juncture of the sinus and somewhat bullate leaf blades, that produce the 'malanga blanca', the "chubas" dearly loved by Cubans and us Trinidadians (but NOT Jamaicans!), THEY were considered to be X. saggitifolum, but when I showed him examples of these actual plants, (the first I showed him was growing in Fairchild Gardens), he immeadiately ID`d them as X. cf. robustum, NOT X. saggitifolium. So after looking around, he decided that many of the plants grown in Cen. America (like the varigated one) with their sinus almost full to the juncture, were the REAL X. saggitifolum. Until Dr. Goncalves completes his work on the cultivated Xanthosomas (and Colocasias!), we have to be patient, as taxonomy at best is difficult, but ESPECIALLY so in this group , as they have been studied for years, 'bad' names have been applied, most incorrectly, so it will take time to untangle this jumbled mess of actual plants vs: names! Who knows at this point if X. maffafa or some of the others are valid species or even names! Good Growing! Julius +More Dear Julius and Eduardo- Thanks for your help in this matter. After Julius mentioned that the flesh of atrovirens tubers is yellow I decided to do a "chuba check" and found this to be true of all the different ones I consider to be atrovirens, whether they have pockets, flaps, or the blades are shaped like they are wearing Mouseketeer hats or not. The tubers of the plant in question have white flesh and the unvariegated parts of the blades are just green, lacking the the dark bluish tone that seems typical of atrovirens, so given the options I think Eduardo's opinion that it's sagittifolium must be correct. Is jacquini not a valid species and should this be more properly named maffafa lineatum or something else? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo Goncalves" To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Dear Steve (and Julius) I have checked the material and it could be a quite unusual Xanthosoma atrovirens cv. "Albo Marginatum" (Pocket plant), but I have a many doubts. Usually, the cited cultivar has a denuded portion of the basal lobes ("ears") and a different venation pattern. Xanthosoma maffafa also have variegated leaves (a.k.a. "Xanthosoma jacquini lineatum"), but not in this pattern. In my opinion, (based mostly in the leaf venation and leaf shape) it is a young variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium (the real one), so I agree with Julius. I have never seen this variegated form, but such monsters do arrive all the time everywhere! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. Goncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum From : Eric Schmidt Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.07.22 at 11:45:19(13220) Dear Steve, Since I am not dealing with trade, I just call it variegated X. mafaffa, but if I had to chose a name it would be best to call it Xanthosoma mafaffa "Lineatum", exactly as you suggested. The name X. jacquinii is currently a synonym of X. undipes, despite some guys in the business think that X. jacqunii is a good species. Whatever, it has nothing to do with that beautiful form of X. mafaffa usually cultivated as an ornamental plant. By the way, For those that are waiting for this, I will try to publish (or at least submit) my paper on cultivated species of Xanthosoma next year, after completing a few molecular/chromosomal experiments to check the complex "atrovirens" (that includes regular X. atrovirens, X. atrovirens "Albo-marginatum", X. atrovirens var. panduriforme, X. appendiculatum and Xanthosoma "Lime Zinger"). +More Very best wishes, Eduardo. Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL. Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: "Discussion of aroids" Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:59:06 -0500 Dear Julius and Eduardo- Thanks for your help in this matter. After Julius mentioned that the flesh of atrovirens tubers is yellow I decided to do a "chuba check" and found this to be true of all the different ones I consider to be atrovirens, whether they have pockets, flaps, or the blades are shaped like they are wearing Mouseketeer hats or not. The tubers of the plant in question have white flesh and the unvariegated parts of the blades are just green, lacking the the dark bluish tone that seems typical of atrovirens, so given the options I think Eduardo's opinion that it's sagittifolium must be correct. Is jacquini not a valid species and should this be more properly named maffafa lineatum or something else? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eduardo Goncalves" To: Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma/Eduardo Gon. Dear Steve (and Julius) I have checked the material and it could be a quite unusual Xanthosoma atrovirens cv. "Albo Marginatum" (Pocket plant), but I have a many doubts. Usually, the cited cultivar has a denuded portion of the basal lobes ("ears") and a different venation pattern. Xanthosoma maffafa also have variegated leaves (a.k.a. "Xanthosoma jacquini lineatum"), but not in this pattern. In my opinion, (based mostly in the leaf venation and leaf shape) it is a young variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium (the real one), so I agree with Julius. I have never seen this variegated form, but such monsters do arrive all the time everywhere! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Hello again, Steve, Perhaps Dr. oncalves can take a look at the photo of that Xanthosoma pictured in the IAS/MOBOT aroid ID site page and give his opinion. Until he manages to complete his review on the cultivated edible aroids there will continue to be confusion. Lots of the confusion began when the imports of the 'malanga' grown in Cen. America began to come in to Florida, previous to that there were mainly the white malanga (which used to be thought to be X. sagg. but is now thought to be X. robustum after Dr. Goncalves' visit to Miami/Fairchild Gardens), the red/lilac malanga which is said to be X. violacium, and the yellow malanga which was said to be X. atrovirens. Perhaps you are correct, that this varigated specimen IS in fact a true X. saggitifolium, which may have the 'full sinus' unlike the sinus w/ a naked area near the juncture as exists in X. robustum, I really am nat certain!! I have not seen varigation in P. xanadu or P. evansii as yet. The Best, Julius Dear Julius, Thanks for the informative reply. I have quite a few different versions of the ones known as atrovirens or 'pocket plant' in Florida. This one doesn't resemble those very much but does look like the large grocery store malangas. I hate getting stuck with just a cock-a-many name. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:00 PM To : "Discussion of aroids" Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Steve, I had a look at the photo, and do not believe this is X. sagittifolium/robustum. The leaf tissue at the sinus of the rear leaf lobes is full almost to the point of juncture w/ the petiole, P. sagittifolum/robustum has a naked area at this point. If I had to guess, I`d have to say that the plant shown is a cultivar/selection of the one we were discussing, the X. 'albo-varigatum monstrosum' or whatever cock-a-many name it is being called, the one w/ the little 'cups' at the leaf-tips. The other species of Xanthosoma that I have grown which also has this sinus full to the base, very like the one in the photo, is one that grows from tubers you can sometimes buy at Cuban/Latin stores called 'malanga amarillo', or 'yautia amirillo'. To me this is interesting, as Deni Bown equates and actually calls both of these plants by the same scientific name, X. atrovirens. I`d be interested in hearing any other opinions. Sincerely, Julius I have some large variegated Xanthosomas that look like sagittifolium to me. Photo posted in IAS ID center. Thanks, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julius Boos" To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:10 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:50 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : [Aroid-l] variegated Xanthosoma and Philodendron bipinnatifidum Dear Eric and Friends, I do believe that what you are seeing and ID`ing as varigated Xanthosoma are mainly a varigated form of Alocasia macrorrizos, not Xanthosoma. The common plant sold as Xanthosoma 'albo marginata' I believe is actually an unidentifed species of true Xanthosoma, at least according to Dr. Goncalves, who is perhaps one of the leading expert on this group. It was named as X. atrovirens by Deni Bown in her book, which I believe is also an error. The species of Xanthosoma w/ the 'frills' under the leaf blade is also an as-yet unnamed species without a 'good' scientific name. It too has been in cultivation for a LONG time, I have it in a book from Brit. Guiana from 1927. I have not seen a varigated P. bipinnatifidum (P. 'selloum') as yet, nor a var. P. evensii or P. xanadu. Good luck, and keep us informed! Good Growing, Julius. Has anyone ever come across variegated Xanthosoma sagittifolium or Philodendron bipinnatifidum? Both are common here in Florida. Xanthosoma sagittigolium 'Albomarginatum Monstrosum' can be found but I am interested in a variegated form of the huge leaf specimens (which might be X. robustum) that are growing in many yards. Also, what about variegated P. x evansii or P. x'anadu? Eric Schmidt Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA Zone 9b eric.schmidt@cityoforlando.net ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos. http://messenger.msn.com.br _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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