Help with Amorphophallus & Sauromatum

From: Peter Postlewaite ppostlewaite at yahoo.com> on 2002.03.22 at 15:06:14(8318) I was recently given corms for Amorphophallus konjac (aka A. riveiri) and Sauromatum guttatum (aka S. venosum, Typhonium venosum). I plan to grow them outdoors. I have done searches on the web, and it appears that they are not difficult to grow. I would appreciate helpful hints from individuals who have experience growing theses Aroids. In what zones are they hardy enough to be left in the ground over winter? I know that they are not hardy in my zone 5 garden, but I will be sharing them with people in zones 6 and 7. Thanks in advance. Pete Postlewaite +More __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards? http://movies.yahoo.com/

From: Douglas Ewing dewing at u.washington.edu> on 2002.03.23 at 04:16:07(8326) Pete, I would strongly urge you to tell people that Sauromatum is potentially invasive. I do not think it should be planted out of containers. We have a research group here at the University of Washington that has worked with this species for 50+ years studying thermogenicity. I made the mistake of planting tubers in my garden at home to try and grow the researches a big crop. 15 years later I am still trying to eradicate them from my garden. Doug +More _________________/\/\/\______________________ Doug Ewing, Greenhouse Manager (206) 543-0436 Department of Botany University of Washington Box 355325 Seattle, WA 98195-5325

From: Plantbob at aol.com on 2002.03.23 at 04:16:31(8328) Pete, I have grown A. konjacs in the ground, over winter, in my area (zone 6b, Phila) with success. The small and large tubers wintered over when mulched. Hope this helps. Bob Kleiser +More Drexel Hill, Pa

From: "Plantsman" plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2002.03.23 at 04:16:43(8329) Typhonium venosum is definitely very hardy in my area of northeast Tennessee (Zone 6a). I've never lost any out in open ground that were buried more than 3" deep. The only ones that I've ever lost were young tubers that fell off of the main tubers when they're being divided and have ended up near the surface. I typically plant the tubers at least 4" deep to be safe and rarely mulch them. I usually don't try to test A. konjac due to it's price but have had a few to overwinter in the ground that fell away from the main culm when they were dug in the Autumn. I know of one fellow in my area that has an absolutely huge clump of them that has overwintered them successfully in the ground by mulching with a deep pile of leaves. Good luck! David Sizemore +More Kingsport, TN Where it's supposed to get down to 18?F tonight! (currently 33?F at 13:15 EST) Goodbye Bradford Pear blossoms (in full bloom no less) ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: Help with Amorphophallus & Sauromatum I was recently given corms for Amorphophallus konjac (aka A. riveiri) and Sauromatum guttatum (aka S. venosum, Typhonium venosum). I plan to grow them outdoors. I have done searches on the web, and it appears that they are not difficult to grow. I would appreciate helpful hints from individuals who have experience growing theses Aroids. In what zones are they hardy enough to be left in the ground over winter? I know that they are not hardy in my zone 5 garden, but I will be sharing them with people in zones 6 and 7. Thanks in advance. Pete Postlewaite __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards? http://movies.yahoo.com/

From: "Paul botting" pbotting at crosslink.net> on 2002.03.23 at 04:16:55(8330) Peter - I grow both they are hardy in my zone 6b garden. I planted the A. konjac 6 - 8 in deep. The Typhonium venosum was planted deeper but one large corm is just below the mulch now, so I suspect it may be hardy for you in zone 5 +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: Help with Amorphophallus & Sauromatum I was recently given corms for Amorphophallus konjac (aka A. riveiri) and Sauromatum guttatum (aka S. venosum, Typhonium venosum). I plan to grow them outdoors. I have done searches on the web, and it appears that they are not difficult to grow. I would appreciate helpful hints from individuals who have experience growing theses Aroids. In what zones are they hardy enough to be left in the ground over winter? I know that they are not hardy in my zone 5 garden, but I will be sharing them with people in zones 6 and 7. Thanks in advance. Pete Postlewaite __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards? http://movies.yahoo.com/

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdel.com> on 2002.03.24 at 03:21:03(8333) Doug: Your note on Sauromatum (typhonium) being invasive is quite interesting. Do you mean invasive as per the official US government definition of "invades a natural functioning ecosystem and displaces native plants" or do you simply mean it seeds around the garden? For us, seed which are not harvested will certainly seed around the garden, but here it certainly doesn't qualify as invasive. We have found that harvesting the seed or breaking off the flowers after they have finished will prevent the seeding. Also, a small bit of Roundup as it emerges will also easily remove it from your garden. With all of the serious issues surrounding invasive plants, I think it would serve us well to clarify the term before we see many of our garden plants being banned than only reproduce well in a garden setting. +More At 10:16 PM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote: >Pete, I would strongly urge you to tell people that Sauromatum is >potentially invasive. I do not think it should be planted out of >containers. We have a research group here at the University of Washington >that has worked with this species for 50+ years studying thermogenicity. I >made the mistake of planting tubers in my garden at home to try and grow >the researches a big crop. 15 years later I am still trying to eradicate >them from my garden. Doug > >_________________/\/\/\______________________ > >Doug Ewing, Greenhouse Manager (206) 543-0436 >Department of Botany >University of Washington >Box 355325 >Seattle, WA 98195-5325 > > > > > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent

From: "Celeste Whitlow" politicalamazon at charter.net> on 2002.03.24 at 03:21:28(8335) I admire everybody who is able to successfully grow aroids in the ground. Do moles and other burrowing critters simply not like them? I seem to lose at least a fourth of my lily bulbs every year to predition from burrowing critters, despite a very active cat who leaves plenty-o-critter innerds on our carpet. +More Do I have ninja moles, or what? I am really hesitant to put my two new (first) Amorphophallus tubers in the ground because if the moles got them, I'm afraid my red-headed nature would overcome me, all bets would be off, and I would call in the air strikes. --Celeste ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Help with Amorphophallus & Sauromatum > Pete, > > I have grown A. konjacs in the ground, over winter, in my area (zone 6b, > Phila) with success. The small and large tubers wintered over when mulched. > Hope this helps. > > Bob Kleiser > Drexel Hill, Pa

From: angel morales angel151 at earthlink.net> on 2002.03.24 at 21:27:50(8342) Not particularly an expert on the subject of Amorphophallus, but , would building an chicken wire cage , of about 1'x1' square, or larger, buried just underneath the plant or bulb help to keep out the Moles, or other critters. Just a thought. Angel151@earthlink.net

From: "Celeste Whitlow" politicalamazon at charter.net> on 2002.03.25 at 16:46:16(8351) It's my experience with those types of cages that the burrowing critters simply hop over the chicken wire (at ground surface) and go for the goodies. Maybe I need another cat...a big, hungry, barn cat.... --Celeste +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Help with Amorphophallus & Sauromatum > Not particularly an expert on the subject of Amorphophallus, but , would > building an chicken wire cage , of about 1'x1' square, or larger, buried > just underneath the plant or bulb help to keep out the Moles, or other > critters. Just a thought. > > Angel151@earthlink.net > >

From: Eric_L_._Schmidt/LEU/CYS/Orlando at priv.ci.orlando.fl.us.ci.orlando.fl.us on 2002.03.25 at 21:58:28(8362) Excellent post Tony. Here in Florida there is a tendency to over react on exotics. The Florida Exotic Plant Council puts out a list of invasive plants. This is a good thing but the list does not specify where the plants are invasive. Here in Central Florida our zone 9 climate is a mixing ground of temperate and tropical plants. There are plants that are invasive in south Florida that grow up here but are behaved, things such as Bischofia, Melaleuca, Bauhinia, Eugenia, Schefflera, and Ficus. Same with some hardy plants like Nandina or Ardisia, invasive in northern Florida but behaved in this area. Eric Schmidt +More Botanic Records Harry P. Leu Gardens 1920 N. Forest Ave. Orlando, FL. 32803 USA USDA zone 9b ph. # (407)-246-3749 fax # (407)-246-2849 www.leugardens.org

From: Douglas Ewing dewing at u.washington.edu> on 2002.03.26 at 04:31:31(8365) Tony, my experience is as follows: Sauromatum ( Typhonium) does not seed in my garden, probably because I do not allow them to bloom (I remove the inflorescence as soon as I see one.) The main way that this species spreads in my garden is via asexual reproduction. The small tubers that are produced around the top of the main tuber create an ever-larger clump of plants. Vigorous weeding, cutting of foliage, even Roundup applications spring, summer, and fall, have only succeeded in making the little buggers smaller, albeit more numerous.( Have you successfully killed this species with Roundup?). I am calling this species invasive +More based on the above experiences. I will confess to ignorance as to the official Federal definition of the term. I have no experience with this plant's ability to invade a natural ecosystem, as I have not planted it into one. If a species is this difficult for someone with years of experience working with plants to get rid of in a garden bed, I am going to err on the side of safety and call it an invasive. Once it gets somewhere where nobody annually removes the inflorescence and you add sexual reproduction and animal dispersal of seed to the equation, I will bet it is invasive by any definition, at least in Puget Sound area of Washington. I do not know how this plant will spread in other climes. I realize the issue of non-native plants in our landscape is a complex one. I will hope that if avid gardeners lead the way by planting exotic species with caution, we can delay the day that harsh regulations may come down. You are correct in pointing out that the threat that any plant poses to the environment will depend on the location you are in. I should have specified that my Sauromatum experience is limited to western Washington. _________________/\/\/\______________________ Doug Ewing, Greenhouse Manager (206) 543-0436 Department of Botany University of Washington Box 355325 Seattle, WA 98195-5325 On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Tony Avent wrote: > Doug: > > Your note on Sauromatum (typhonium) being invasive is quite interesting. > Do you mean invasive as per the official US government definition of > "invades a natural functioning ecosystem and displaces native plants" or do > you simply mean it seeds around the garden? For us, seed which are not > harvested will certainly seed around the garden, but here it certainly > doesn't qualify as invasive. We have found that harvesting the seed or > breaking off the flowers after they have finished will prevent the seeding. > Also, a small bit of Roundup as it emerges will also easily remove it from > your garden. With all of the serious issues surrounding invasive plants, I > think it would serve us well to clarify the term before we see many of our > garden plants being banned than only reproduce well in a garden setting. > > At 10:16 PM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Pete, I would strongly urge you to tell people that Sauromatum is > >potentially invasive. I do not think it should be planted out of > >containers. We have a research group here at the University of Washington > >that has worked with this species for 50+ years studying thermogenicity. I > >made the mistake of planting tubers in my garden at home to try and grow > >the researches a big crop. 15 years later I am still trying to eradicate > >them from my garden. Doug > > > >_________________/\/\/\______________________ > > > >Doug Ewing, Greenhouse Manager (206) 543-0436 > >Department of Botany > >University of Washington > >Box 355325 > >Seattle, WA 98195-5325 > > > > > > > > > > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, NC 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdel.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent >

From: Paul Tyerman ptyerman at ozemail.com.au> on 2002.03.26 at 16:06:34(8368) >into one. If a species is this difficult for someone with years of >experience working with plants to get rid of in a garden bed, I am going >to >err on the side of safety and call it an invasive. Once it gets somewhere >where nobody annually removes the inflorescence and you add sexual >reproduction and animal dispersal of seed to the equation, I will bet it >is invasive by any definition, at least in Puget Sound area of Washington. Doug, One thing immediately sprung to mind on reading your comments above....... something that multiplies like crazy in a garden situation due to the higher rates of fertiliser water and reduction in natural weeds does nto necessarily multiply like that "in the wild". I'm not criticising in any way, just mentioning that the conditions we grow plants in naturally provide a better than average growing condition so the performance of any plant in a garden situation does not necessarily mean that it will take over in areas given different situations. I will only mention that as I think that this has been said elsewhere (I lose track of which mailing list particular emails come from.... this has been discussed on a number of different ones) but I thought it was at least worth mentioning. I would also note..... my above statement does not mean that it ISN'T going to be invasive either, just that plentiful production in a garden situation does not "necesarily" mean the same results in the wild, evne in the same geographic area and climate. Cheers. Paul Tyerman +More Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!!

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdel.com> on 2002.03.26 at 16:06:47(8369) Doug: Thanks for the clarification on the sauromatum (typhonium). We have been successful with Roundup (glyphosate) when the plant is actively growing. Since the leaf has thick cuticle, I would suggest cutting the stem when the plant is in active growth and simply pouring a few drops on the cut stem surface. It is amazing how our plant paradigm has changed. In the recent past a plant was touted for its ability to "naturalize" in a garden. Now plants with this trait are the scourge of the world. While few non-native plants to a particular area are truly invasive over time (displacing natives in a functioning ecosystem), those that become overly agressive in our gardens should be on a watch list for our region. Conversely, this is not a reason to ban the plant from the entire country as the current system allows. As Doug points out, good gardeners spreading good information are the key in making good decisions. Tony Avent +More Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2002.04.02 at 03:11:17(8410) What's with all the stink about Sauromatum? (LOL) Maybe it'll drive all the deer out of our neighborhood. I give blooming size tubers to people I don't like. The Sauromatums repay me by sending stray offsets into my Arisaema plantings, so that I have to look for the prescence of a cataphyll on what looks like an Arisaema seedling to validate it. Bonaventure Magrys +More formerly of the Bayway neighborhood of Elizabeth, New Jersey; which is now an even more pungent place every spring.

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