Making bulbils?

From: "Randall M. Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.06.04 at 18:57:08(8952) Hi, Just curious whether it is possible to induce (using mechanical or chemical means such as incisions and/or hormones) bulbil formation in species that don't normally make them . I'm wondering in particular whether the sorts of bulbils grown on the leaf axils of certain Amorphophallus species can be artificially coaxed out of other members of the genus. A related question: Is it possible to increase bulbil formation in species that normally reproduce this way? Thanks, Randy

From: mburack at mindspring.com> on 2002.06.04 at 21:29:22(8953) I'll throw my two cents in.. I dont believe you can make a species which doesnt produce aerial bulbils to make them...reason being.. the specific cells needed to create "bulbil" formation would not be present. ("Bulbil" creating "cells" are specific to that function and not just a leaf cell gone haywire). (Maybe it could be done by grafting cells but it sounds awfully complicated and not really worth it). Maybe that was more than 2 cents. Marc +More On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:55:42 -0500 (CDT) "Randall M. Story" wrote: Hi, Just curious whether it is possible to induce (using mechanical or chemical means such as incisions and/or hormones) bulbil formation in species that don't normally make them . I'm wondering in particular whether the sorts of bulbils grown on the leaf axils of certain Amorphophallus species can be artificially coaxed out of other members of the genus. A related question: Is it possible to increase bulbil formation in species that normally reproduce this way? Thanks, Randy

From: "Randall M. Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.06.05 at 06:02:26(8954) Marc, You're probably right about that. However, at least some leaf cells must retain the ability to (eventually) form all the tissues of an Amorphophallus--leaf, petiole, tuber, roots, etc. since some of these plants can be propagated by leaf cuttings. That is, there must be at least some cells present in leaves that are capable of de-differentiating and forming "stem cells" capable of regenerating all cell types. Or perhaps stem cells are still present in the leaves? (someone help me on this...) I suppose the question boils down to exactly what the various sorts of bulbils actually are. Is it a sort of specialized tissue(s) or structure that can only be formed by certain species that possess particular gene(s), or is it something common to all of these guys? If the former, then it's probably unlikely it can be produced in other species. If the latter, then conceivably bulbil or bulbil-like tissue could be generally produced. Anyone out there know ? Randy +More ---------- >From: >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Making bulbils? >Date: Tue, Jun 4, 2002, 2:29 PM > > > I'll throw my two cents in.. > > I dont believe you can make a species which doesnt produce aerial bulbils > to make them...reason being.. the specific cells needed to create "bulbil" > formation would not be present. > > ("Bulbil" creating "cells" are specific to that function and not just a > leaf cell gone haywire). > > (Maybe it could be done by grafting cells but it sounds awfully complicated > and not really worth it). > > Maybe that was more than 2 cents. > > Marc > > > On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:55:42 -0500 (CDT) "Randall M. Story" > wrote: > > Hi, > > Just curious whether it is possible to induce (using mechanical or chemical > means such as incisions and/or hormones) bulbil formation in species that > don't normally make them . I'm wondering in particular whether the sorts of > bulbils grown on the leaf axils of certain Amorphophallus species can be > artificially coaxed out of other members of the genus. > > A related question: Is it possible to increase bulbil formation in species > that normally reproduce this way? > > Thanks, > > Randy >

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2002.06.05 at 06:04:28(8955) I have chopped a few bulb up and placed in a humid place and have had bulbs form from each chunk of bulb. I have also had a few forms that don't usually set off bulb that I have cut not all the way but cut a mark into and placed fungicide. This mark or scare I have found will make some species split in two. I have not made any true experiments up just me messing trying new things. Has anyone else tried anything like this? Just to add in on this message. I have been growing for a few years and have found that their are manly two ways for me to grow Amorphophallus well here in Kentucky. I have one bed made in the greenhouse with normal river bottom dirt. Kinda like the stuff used in a garden the normal brown farm dirt. All the amorphos and Dracontiums love that. But for pots. I find I use metro mix 360 with a common mix of powdered spaghnum moss and perlite. Half a bag of metro mix to every bag of the spaghnum moss. This works very well on the amorphos as well as Philo cuttings. +More I have seen some florida friends growing them in just about everything from mulch to pine nuggets. But after all the experiments here. This works best. A have not had a rot problem sense. THANKS Hope this info helps a few out. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From: Iza & Carol Goroff goroff at idcnet.com> on 2002.06.05 at 06:07:32(8957) Bulbils in Lilium bulbiferum appear to be leaf buds which have the ability to grow roots, once planted. Stems which have axillary buds probably have the ability to produce plantlets if laid on a suitable compost. I have a water lily 'Tina' which produces plantlets at the junction of the leaf petiole and leaf. One might search for such in Amorphophallus. Iza Goroff +More Whitewater Wisconsin USA zone 4b mburack@mindspring.com wrote: > I dont believe you can make a species which doesnt produce aerial bulbils to make them...reason being.. the specific cells needed to create "bulbil" formation would not be present. > > ("Bulbil" creating "cells" are specific to that function and not just a leaf cell gone haywire).

From: Paul Tyerman ptyerman at ozemail.com.au> on 2002.06.05 at 06:09:03(8958) > >Just curious whether it is possible to induce (using mechanical or chemical >means such as incisions and/or hormones) bulbil formation in species that >don't normally make them . I'm wondering in particular whether the sorts of >bulbils grown on the leaf axils of certain Amorphophallus species can be >artificially coaxed out of other members of the genus. > Randy, Based on ZERO genetic knowledge of Amorphophallus (but don't they just look SO cool ) I would think that the only way of producing bulbils on a plant that does not normally do this would be to use plants that can be grown from leaf cuttings. I am aware that some species of Amorph can be grown from cuttings from the petioles (although I don't know which species or the method usually used for this) so I would imagine that theoretically this could be used to give the equivallent of "layering" the plant in the air? Many shrubs that can be grown from cuttings can be air layered by nicking the stem, treating with a hormone, and then wrapping the area is sphagnum moss or similar, thereby creating roots at this point and the eventual rooted cutting that can be planted. This is not "bulbil" creation, but I suppose it is linked in some ways. Just some thoughts as I have no knowledge of whether this could be done with Amorphophallus or not, just applying some knowledge from other areas. Cheers. Paul Tyerman +More Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!!

From: "Randall M. Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.06.05 at 18:44:18(8960) Hi Brian, Thanks for your response. I guess my question is in some sense whether bulbils are essentially masses of generic "tuber tissue" that form on leaves. If so, then they could simply grow by "reprogramming" leaf tissue to form "tuber tissue" so as to form what is more or less a tumor on the leaf. Some pictures I have seen of bulbils seem to look like this, superficially at least. Then if such a "tumor" is planted, it might develop the complete range of cells necessary for growth. Such a simple switch in cell type is easy to imagine developmentally, much more simple than somehow creating a "real" tuber (presumably with a range of specialized cells) on the leaf. Just speculation on my part... Or maybe cells that will eventually form bulbils have already specialized by the time other leaf cells have specialized??? Are there any guesses as to whether the common ancestor to Amorphophallus had a bulbil making ability that was lost in most of the other guys, or whether it was an "invention" in only a few species? (molecular phylogeneticists in the audience??). If it was lost in the majority of species, they may still have some sort of latent ability to do this, even if it is some sort of specialized structure instead of just some tumor-like mass of cells. +More Randy ---------- >From: "brian williams" >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Making bulbils? >Date: Tue, Jun 4, 2002, 11:04 PM > > > > I have chopped a few bulb up and placed in a humid place and have had bulbs > form from each chunk of bulb. I have also had a few forms that don't usually > set off bulb that I have cut not all the way but cut a mark into and placed > fungicide. This mark or scare I have found will make some species split in > two. I have not made any true experiments up just me messing trying new > things. > > > Has anyone else tried anything like this? > > Just to add in on this message. I have been growing for a few years and have > found that their are manly two ways for me to grow Amorphophallus well here > in Kentucky. I have one bed made in the greenhouse with normal river bottom > dirt. Kinda like the stuff used in a garden the normal brown farm dirt. All > the amorphos and Dracontiums love that. > But for pots. I find I use metro mix 360 with a common mix of powdered > spaghnum moss and perlite. Half a bag of metro mix to every bag of the > spaghnum moss. This works very well on the amorphos as well as Philo > cuttings. > > I have seen some florida friends growing them in just about everything from > mulch to pine nuggets. But after all the experiments here. This works best. > A have not had a rot problem sense. THANKS Hope this info helps a few out. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > >

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2002.06.05 at 20:18:01(8961) Dear Randall, Well, we still do not have a good published phylogeny for the aroids (despite it is on its way), but it seems that this feature is not so unusual in the "higher aroids". It is known in a few Amorphs, Pinellia and, believe me, in a Xanthosoma from Peru! This species (not yet published - Josef Bogner will publish this one) produces a tubercle at the junction of leaflets (just like Amorphophallus symonianus), deeply immersed in the tissue. All of these taxa are from the clade "Aroideae" presented by James French, so it may not be such a rare thing (or appeared independently at least 3 times in this subset the family). Anyhow, the tendency for easy "totipotence" is common in plants with succulent tissues and many aroids are quite succulent indeed. All you have in "bulbifer" aroids is a small specialization of an widespread feature... Remember that Gonatopus and Zamioculcas do not produce spontaneous tubercles, but will start to swollen any portion of it if you put it in contact with anything that could be called soil! +More Best wishes, Eduardo. >From: "Randall M. Story" >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Making bulbils? >Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:44:16 -0500 (CDT) > >Hi Brian, > >Thanks for your response. I guess my question is in some sense whether >bulbils are essentially masses of generic "tuber tissue" that form on >leaves. If so, then they could simply grow by "reprogramming" leaf tissue >to form "tuber tissue" so as to form what is more or less a tumor on the >leaf. Some pictures I have seen of bulbils seem to look like this, >superficially at least. Then if such a "tumor" is planted, it might >develop >the complete range of cells necessary for growth. Such a simple switch in >cell type is easy to imagine developmentally, much more simple than somehow >creating a "real" tuber (presumably with a range of specialized cells) on >the leaf. Just speculation on my part... > >Or maybe cells that will eventually form bulbils have already specialized >by >the time other leaf cells have specialized??? > >Are there any guesses as to whether the common ancestor to Amorphophallus >had a bulbil making ability that was lost in most of the other guys, or >whether it was an "invention" in only a few species? (molecular >phylogeneticists in the audience??). If it was lost in the majority of >species, they may still have some sort of latent ability to do this, even >if >it is some sort of specialized structure instead of just some tumor-like >mass of cells. > >Randy > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.