Cyrtosperma merkusii--the story

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2006.09.29 at 22:55:47(14713) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Friday, September 29, 2006 2:16 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma Merkusii Dear Eric, Where in Florida are you located?? (Thanks for your other 'forward' on this, Steve) I guess at the risk of others on this list screaming 'BORRRRRINGGGGG!!!", I`ll come out and share a few notes about this wonderful aroid with you. Information gleaned over years from reading many great books, papers, from friends, etc. is hereby shared. It is pictured in David Fairchilds book, Great Gardens of the East, where he says at the time he considered the African aroid Lasimorpha senegalensis (at about 8 ft. tall) to be the largest aroid in the world (this was in the days before we knew much about the giant Amorphophallus sps!), and was told of this other giant aroid that occured in a swamp somewhere (I believe he said) in the Islands of Indonesia or on nearby Islands. He found it, and there is a photo of him standing on a beach holding a cut leaf. From memory the leaf is about 17 ft. tall! If you browse the IAS/Mobot site, you can see 'yours-truly' proudly standing by my effort at growing this plant, a mere 12 ft. or so tall. It is cultivated by people on certain coral islands in the Pacific region, small Islands where the soil is too bad or non-existant and the water too saline for the cultivation of 'regular' taro, Colocasia esculenta, which is THE staple carbo. food of Islanders throughout most of the Pacific region, nor other starches/foods such as breadfruit. From what I have gleaned, it supplys the only starch where there is but fish and coconuts to survive on. To grow it, a pit is dug in the coral rock, and a basket containing a sucker of this plant together with chopped coconut fiber, leaves, etc. is lowered into the pit, where water percolates into it. Though the water has some salinity, this plant can tollerate it. My guess is that they must fertilize it w/ fish offal, human waste, etc., and must also 'cultivate' it by removing the many off-shoots/suckers it produces around its base. It then grows over a period of up to 7 years to a huge size, at which point it is harvested, the resulting corm/tuber (='chuba'!! :--)) can weigh up to 70 lbs., and is considered almost a form of currency and denotes the wealth of the owners/chiefs. It is said that a woman`s 'worth' as a wife on these Islands is determined by her ability to prepare food/dishes from this corm. I read that it was terribly starchy and tasteless, a 'not-true' charge I have also heard leveled at Colocasia esculenta= taro/poi way too many times. A friend who lived in Indonesia (an American!) told me that he grew it around a natural lake on his land. He reported that it was one of the best tasting starch-type crops he had ever tasted! I`m certain that some of the friends on this list who have tasted my shepherd`s pie made w/ mashed Colocasia esculenta topping, or my eddoes (C. e. antiquorum) in 'devil sauce' would take bets on which may taste better! It occurs in several cultivars throughout its natural range, the all-green one that you saw at Fairchild Garden is a good match for the one pictured w/ David Fairchild, and there is another cultivar also locally available which we are beholden to our own Alan Galloway for, as he collected it during one of his trips to Asia, but as yet can not recall exactly where. Many years ago he very kindly gave his last survivor of it to me as a very small plant, sickly from the cold weather up at his place, and I managed to get it going down here, and my dear friend Craig Morell is responsible for mantaining a few over these MANY years when my fortunes in plant growing waxed and waned. This cultivar is a beautiful plant with pink-brown colored petioles, and a slightly different shaped leaf blade, and does not seem to grow to be as large as the one you saw at Fairchild Gardens. Dr. Alistair Hay wrote that he believed that C. merkusii was a just a selection or cultivated 'form' originating from the wild Cyrtosparma ferox, I hope to test this theory by eventually sending dried leaf samples of both to Dr. Goncalves in Brazil for DNA testing. Both clones, and many other wonderful related aquatic aroids, are available from my friends Enid and Sam (the parents with the BEAUTIFUL new baby boy 'Jesse' at the show!!) at Natural Selections, all for a nominal price. Growing aquatic aroids is easy, my article 'Experiencing Urospathas' in an older issue of "Aroideana" outlines a method I developed by trial and error for growing all of these sometimes difficult aquatic/swamp aroids. I hope that this info. is of help, that I have not bored any of our readers, and that I have not taken up too much of anyone`s time. Good Growing, Julius +More W.P.B., FLORIDA I found this beautiful plant growing in the giant greenhouse at Fairchild Tropical Gardens in the fountain/pond area, and was completely amazed by it. Ive found little to no information on the net on it. Other than being labeled Giant Swamp Taro and its use as a food item in its place of origin. Anyone out there care to share some light on how to grow this species and better yet who has any available for sale or trade? Thanks Eric<< __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.09.30 at 12:33:07(14715) I like this plant. It is huge and Araceae! I think it is not suitable in a block of flats...b :) ----- Original Message ----- +More From: Brian Williams To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:17 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma merkusii--the story Here is a link of what maybe Merkusii but it is listed as chamissonls I am not sure if this is another large species in the group in most cases I have seen it usually is Merkusii. I did have a great link to island page with a young woman in front of a huge patch of Merkusii that were around 20 feet tall. Huge plants with massive leaves. It seems this site is no longer up. This was the closest I have seen to it.http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/images/cyr_cha_hab.jpg>_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "FLFireman1 at yahoo.com" flfireman1 at yahoo.com> on 2006.09.30 at 23:40:52(14719) Hello Brian, Julius, and everybody else who shared there info and insight on this beautiful plant. The Markusii that Brian sent a link of from Hawaii doesnt look "exactly" like the one that is growing at Fairchild. It may very well be the same plant, since I am no expert. But it appears that the leaf on the one that Brian sent a link to has a softer leaf almost like a Xanthosoma Sagitifollia when compared to an Alocasia Odora leaf. +More Here is a link to the plant that looks identical to the one growing at Fairchild: http://dscherberich.free.fr/MUNICH/cyrtomerkusiim.html Again they very well may be the same plant, or a variation of the same plant. Thanks Eric --- Brian Williams wrote: > Here is a link of what maybe Merkusii but it is > listed as chamissonls I > am not sure if this is another large species in the > group in most cases > I have seen it usually is Merkusii. I did have a > great link to island > page with a young woman in front of a huge patch of > Merkusii that were > around 20 feet tall. Huge plants with massive > leaves. It seems this site > is no longer up. This was the closest I have seen to > it. > > http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/images/cyr_cha_hab.jpg > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Famille FERRY" jpcferry2 at wanadoo.fr> on 2006.10.01 at 17:10:18(14723) Hello , I am surprised to re-examine this photograph. I had forgotten. David Scherberich and me even, planes accomodated very well by Josef Bogner. The collection of Arac?es of Munich is incredible : the paradise! Best regards, Genevi?ve +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma merkusii--the story Hello Brian, Julius, and everybody else who shared there info and insight on this beautiful plant. The Markusii that Brian sent a link of from Hawaii doesnt look "exactly" like the one that is growing at Fairchild. It may very well be the same plant, since I am no expert. But it appears that the leaf on the one that Brian sent a link to has a softer leaf almost like a Xanthosoma Sagitifollia when compared to an Alocasia Odora leaf. Here is a link to the plant that looks identical to the one growing at Fairchild: http://dscherberich.free.fr/MUNICH/cyrtomerkusiim.html Again they very well may be the same plant, or a variation of the same plant. Thanks Eric --- Brian Williams wrote: Here is a link of what maybe Merkusii but it is listed as chamissonls I am not sure if this is another large species in the group in most cases I have seen it usually is Merkusii. I did have a great link to island page with a young woman in front of a huge patch of Merkusii that were around 20 feet tall. Huge plants with massive leaves. It seems this site is no longer up. This was the closest I have seen to it. http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/images/cyr_cha_hab.jpg > _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2006.10.01 at 18:18:49(14724) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:40 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma merkusii--the story Dear ALl, As some of you have 'heard' me say here on aroid-l, aroids are VERY 'plastic' plants, and can and do evolve VERY quickly vegetatively, as we have seen that even an offshoot from a 'mother' plant can grow to look and TASTE differently to the 'mother'. The best way to illustrate this is to consider Colocasia esculenta (taro) in Hawaii, in just a couple thousand years man has managed to develope several HUNDRED 'cultivars'/clones just by his selection, NOT by breeding or seed/sexual reproduction, and these hundreds come from just a very few original clones/varieties that were brought to the Islands by the first human arrivals. Presumably the same thing occurs with Cyrtosperma. As I said in my note, there are many known cultivars of this one 'species', C. merkusii, so we can expect to see slight differences in them through their range, and this is NOT taking into account the growing conditions, as the plants at Fairchild and in Munich probably originate from exactly the same collection/clone, and both are growing indoors in shade and stillness, while the Hawaiian plant is growing outside in sun and the wind. Good Growing, Julius +More Hello Brian, Julius, and everybody else who shared their info and insight on this beautiful plant. The C. merkusii that Brian sent a link of from Hawaii doesnt look "exactly" like the one that is growing at Fairchild. It may very well be the same plant, since I am no expert. But it appears that the leaf on the one that Brian sent a link to has a softer leaf almost like a Xanthosoma Sagitifollia when compared to an Alocasia Odora leaf. Here is a link to the plant that looks identical to the one growing at Fairchild: http://dscherberich.free.fr/MUNICH/cyrtomerkusiim.html Again they very well may be the same plant, or a variation of the same plant. Thanks Eric<< --- Brian Williams wrote: Here is a link of what maybe Merkusii but it is listed as chamissonls I am not sure if this is another large species in the group in most cases I have seen it usually is Merkusii. I did have a great link to island page with a young woman in front of a huge patch of Merkusii that were around 20 feet tall. Huge plants with massive leaves. It seems this site is no longer up. This was the closest I have seen to it. http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/images/cyr_cha_hab.jpg > _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Alistair Hay" ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2006.10.02 at 05:27:41(14727) Cyrtosperma chamissonis is a name that has been used for the cultivated (and usually unarmed) forms in the Pacific. When I was looking into this 20 years ago, I formed the opinion that the cultivated forms intergraded with the very spiny Javan wild-type C. merkusii, and hence I used the name C. merkusii to cover both the wild and the cultivated forms. I also formed the opinion that Bornean C. ferox and Malayan C. lasioides belonged to this variable species. I know Josf Bogner disagrees with me about C. ferox :-) Alistair +More From: Brian Williams Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Cyrtosperma merkusii--the storyDate: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:17:27 -0400>Here is a link of what maybe Merkusii but it is listed as >chamissonls I am not sure if this is another large species in the >group in most cases I have seen it usually is Merkusii. I did have a >great link to island page with a young woman in front of a huge >patch of Merkusii that were around 20 feet tall. Huge plants with >massive leaves. It seems this site is no longer up. This was the >closest I have seen to it.>>http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/images/cyr_cha_hab.jpg>>>>>_______________________________________________>Aroid-l mailing list>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "mossytrail" mossytrail at hctc.com> on 2006.10.03 at 02:45:56(14728) > Dear Friends, > > Thanks, Brian, nice photo!! > While we are on this subject, perhaps someone out there > may be able to provide us w/ some information on a couple > of subjects. A good friend has told me that several years > ago, while visiting Hawaii, he recalls visiting (he > thinks) 'Lyonn Arborium' (name/spelling?) Lyon Arboretum. It is up the Manoa Valley, near the trailhead to Manoa Falls, on Oahu. Unfortunately (for me), it is only open when I am at work -- that is to say, weekdays only, closed weekends and holidays. That section of the island, however, is of particular interest -- the Manoa Valley/ Mt. Tantalus area has a much greater diversity of introduced aroids growing wild than I have seen anywhere else in the Islands. Off topic, does anyone know > if there are folks here in the USA who have plants of > native Hawaiian Hibiscus genera/species in cultivation?? > Good Growing, > The Audubon Center in Waimea, Oahu has extensive botanic gardens, with many specimens of the extinct-in-the-wild Hibiscus brackenridgei. But I doubt they are available for distribution. +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.10.03 at 17:04:02(14730) I met a couple who went to Lyon Arobertum early in the summer. They tipped a gardner $20 and mailed home an enormous box of cuttings of all sorts of rare plants from around the South Pacific. She got 3 or 4 nice Cercestis mirabilis which are pricey plants. And it all cost only $20 plus the postage. Could be worth a trip to Hawaii. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: mossytrail To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:45 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Re: Cyrtosperma merkusii--the story > Dear Friends,> > Thanks, Brian, nice photo!!> While we are on this subject, perhaps someone out there> may be able to provide us w/ some information on a couple> of subjects. A good friend has told me that several years> ago, while visiting Hawaii, he recalls visiting (he> thinks) 'Lyonn Arborium' (name/spelling?)Lyon Arboretum. It is up the Manoa Valley, near thetrailhead to Manoa Falls, on Oahu. Unfortunately (for me),it is only open when I am at work -- that is to say,weekdays only, closed weekends and holidays. That sectionof the island, however, is of particular interest -- theManoa Valley/ Mt. Tantalus area has a much greater diversityof introduced aroids growing wild than I have seen anywhereelse in the Islands.Off topic, does anyone know> if there are folks here in the USA who have plants of> native Hawaiian Hibiscus genera/species in cultivation??> Good Growing,> The Audubon Center in Waimea, Oahu has extensive botanicgardens, with many specimens of the extinct-in-the-wildHibiscus brackenridgei. But I doubt they are available fordistribution._______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.