Aroid recipes/edibility

From: ju-bo at msn.com (Julius Boos) on 2007.09.03 at 10:38:39(16205)

From: mossytrail at hctc.com (mossytrail) on 2007.09.03 at 19:52:39(16208) > I don`t have enough information on this aspect. I do > believe that all/most aroids might be edible with enough > cooking. +More In _Stalking the Wild Asparagus_, Euell Gibbons experimented with this using tubers of Jack-in-the-pulpit and skunk cabbage. He found that only thorough drying (six months to a year) rendered them edible. Of course, tubers may be different from shoots in this regard. The problem would be to get ENOUGH of any one > species to make it worth your while. Lasia spinosa grows > in huge stands, as does Colocasia, but other aroids, even > the spiny ones, grow sort of one plant here, one plant > there, so you`d have hell finding enough leaves at the > correct stage of growth! In some parts of Hawaii, Epipremnum aureum also occurs in huge stands. It is not spiny, but it might be suitable for testing the thesis that all aroids can be made edible. I'm prpbably not going to try it, though. > I debated this on aroid-L some years ago. As far as I > know, modern man has not selected any particular clone of > this plant for fruit production. BUT---did native > Americans do this?? Who knows. M. deliciosa fruit has > LOTS of edible pulp and a few LARGE seeds, but one has to > be careful when trying to eat the pulp not to bite into > the odd seed secreted in this wonderful pulp, as they > will itch! The Monstera fruits I have seen in stateside markets (grown in Mexico) comes with instructions on how to avoid the itch. > I believe that the fruit are prized in Mexico and > elsewhere. The fruit of some Philodendron sps. are also > prized as food in S. America. You may recall in my note on Syngonium a few days ago, I also mentioned sweet pulp. I'm not sure what part of the infructescence gave me the itch, but it cannot have been the pulp, because it was in the wrong part of my mouth. I wonder if Syngonium could be selected for larger and better fruit? Whatever river 'shakes your tree' as a chiller, > go for it!!! :--) > I suspect that was his way of asking where the fruit originally came from, i.e., which river is nearest that locality. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: criswick at spiceisle.com (criswick) on 2007.09.04 at 15:02:14(16211) Dear Julius, Perhaps you may remember meeting me a couple of times at Monroe Birdsey's place. I live in Grenada and brought things for him and we used to exchange. +More One of the things I brought repeatedly for him, because he was always losing it, was a philodendron I collected on Colombia's Pacific coast which Tom Croat provisionally suggested might be P. tenue, but he only saw a black and white photo. That was in 1985 and we didn't have fax machines, let alone computers and digital cameras. It had amazingly long hastate leaves in relation to their width, thick and leathery. The ratio was similar to that of the leaves of P. spiritus-sancti. Now Ivan has killed my own plant (it was a slow grower) and I don't know if anyone inherited Monroe's, if he had any at the time of his death. Do you happen to know? Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an aroid called "spinach". It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was necessary to avoid it "scratching" your mouth. It was regularly sold in the market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada have not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and is it grown in Trinidad? Yours sincerely, John Criswick.

From: ju-bo at msn.com (Julius Boos) on 2007.09.04 at 23:27:18(16212)

From: gcyao at mydestiny.net (George Yao) on 2007.09.05 at 13:39:36(16215) Hello everyone, Could it be the Tanier Spinach? Here is a link for reference: http://www.tropilab.com/tanierspinach.html I tried ordering once and, unlucky for me, the tuber/rhizome just rotted after I planted it. One time when I learned that an acquaintance once stay in Surinam, I asked about it and was told that it tasted quite good. George Yao +More Metro-Manila At 9/4/2007 11:02 PM, you wrote: >Dear Julius, >>> > Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an >aroid called "spinach". It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves >about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and >had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was >necessary to avoid it "scratching" your mouth. It was regularly sold in the >market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada have >not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and >is it grown in Trinidad? > > Yours sincerely, > John Criswick. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 9:31 AM

From: criswick at spiceisle.com (criswick) on 2007.09.05 at 14:08:48(16216) Dear Julius, Yes, X. acutum does seem to be the most likely, especially as you saw it being cultivated in the Guianas. Of course, "spinach" is just a generic name referring to any dark green leafy vegetable, like "bhagi", and could be applied to callaloo (Colocasia esculentum) as well. It is often applied to the leafy vine Basella alba, too I look forward to hearing what Miami brings ! John.. +More -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 7:27 PM To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Aroid recipes/edibility >From : criswick Sent : Monday, September 3, 2007 10:54 PM To : "'Julius Boos'" Subject : RE: Spinach Dear John, I am pleased to see that the problem you were experiencing w/ Aroid-L seems to have been resolved by Steve Marak, thanks Steve! In a couple of weeks we shall be in Miami surrounded by plant people and plants, Steve and I will ask around and keep a weather eye open for the Philodendron sp., the Nocks and Denis Rotalante come to mind! Concerning the smaller aroid you recall which was eaten as a spinach in Br. Guiana, I have given this some thought. I really don`t believe it could be X. heleborifolium, as this does not grow in any quantity anywhere I have encountered it, and does not have a sagittate leaf blade. A 'suspect' would be X. acutum, which has a sagittate leaf blade, and is about the size of the plant you recall! We saw this aroid growing in quantity around old homes in Fr. Guyana, the young leaves could be collected, much like the leaves of the Colocasias growing around our homes used to be collected and calallo made with them on a Sunday. The leaves of X. acutum might make a good spinach! I will wait and hope that my friend can provide a photo of 'rickwanch' when next he visits Guiana. Hopefully your friend Dr. Birbalsingh will recall more details. We shall keep in touch! Sincerely, Julius >>Dear Julius, Thank you so much for your prompt reply, and thank you for copying in Ron Weeks. I already corresponded with Steve on this subject and he suggested I contact you. His P. tenue looks nothing like mine. Your description of the fowl-foot bhagi makes me suspect that this could well be the spinach. I am sure that it IS a Xanthosoma and maybe the leaves are pedatisect. I remembered them as sagittate but it's such a long time now. However, the fact that it's called "bhagi" in Trinidad (I am very familiar with the term, also used in Guyana) indicates that it is eaten by at least some people. I have not seen it in Grenada. Rickwanch I have not heard of, but the fact that it needs good cooking also ties in with my description. My friend Dr. Frank Birbalsingh of York University, Toronto, might recall from his childhood days in Better Hope, East Bank Demerara, this vegetable, so I'll ask him. I look forward to hearing more from you. Yours, John. -----Original Message----- From: Julius Boos [mailto:ju-bo at msn.com] Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 4:50 PM To: criswick at spiceisle.com Cc: samarak at gizmoworks.com; steve at exoticrainforest.com Subject: RE: Spinach >From : criswick Sent : Monday, September 3, 2007 5:42 PM To : "'Julius Boos'" Subject : Spinach Dear John, It is good to hear from you! I do remember you indeed! You will note that I have copied Steve Marak in on this, as he is the moderator of aroid-l, and he may be able to assist in getting your lack of mail into and out of aroid-L sorted out and corrected. I am also copying my GOOD friend Ron Weeks in Miami, as he was very familiar with the plants at Monroe`s place and just might have a lead on the Philodendron you seek, also Steve Lucas who may have info. on this W. Colombian species of Philodendron. I`m afraid that I do not know it, as I am mainly interested in the group known as the Meconostigmas, the self-heading Philodendrons. I`m afrid that in Trinidad, as far as I know, we do not grow the aroid you mention, known as spinach in Guiana. I will, however ask around, as I have Guianese friends here in WPB, Florida, and one travels frequently to Guiana on Buisness. I recall Eduardo telling me that in Brazil they have some fasinating-sounding edible aroids, and this one sounds familiar. There they also cut the entire 'heads' of ALL the leaves off a var. of Xanthosoma, and cook the whole bunch, old and new, as a kind of calaloo! We do not eat Xanthosoma leaves on Trinidad! There are some questions regarding the edibility of some aroids found on T`dad, for example Xanthosoma helleborifolium, called ''fowl-foot badjhii" (badjhii is an Indian/hindii word meaning spinach) because of its divided, pedatisect leaves resembling a chicken`s foot (this probably occurs on Grenana too), and Xanthosoma brazilense, called 'caribbean chou' or cabbage/spinach', both are not eaten as far as I know on T`dad, and I don`t know why. I did confirm that the leaves and blooms of Caladium bicolor are still used as a spinach in some areas and are called 'cachoo'. I just spoke w/ my Guianese friends, she recalls an aroid, different from 'sahena' (Dasheen/Colocasia) which they called 'Rickwanch' which they made a spinach with, it had to be cooked very well to avoid the itching. Her husband may be travelling to Guiana next, week and will try to photograph it for me, and MAYBE bring up a small corm, though the security has become so tight when flying it makes this difficult. Hopefully this note to Steve and Ron may bear results! Please stay in touch! Sincerely Yours, Julius >>Dear Julius, I often read your contributions to Aroid-L, but for some mystifying reason, when I try to contribute myself, nothing comes through. Perhaps you may remember meeting me a couple of times at Monroe Birdseys place. I live in Grenada and brought things for him and we used to exchange. One of the things I brought repeatedly for him, because he was always losing it, was a philodendron I collected on Colombias Pacific coast which Tom Croat provisionally identified as P. tenue. Nowadays, however, he is not so sure. It had amazingly long hastate leaves in relation to their width, thick and leathery. The ratio was similar to that of the leaves of P. spiritus-sancti. Now Ivan has killed my own plant (it was a slow grower) and I dont know if anyone inherited Monroes, if he had any at the time of his death. Do you happen to know? Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an aroid called spinach. It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was necessary to avoid it scratching your mouth. It was regularly sold in the market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada have not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and is it grown in Trinidad? I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely, John Criswick.

From: criswick at spiceisle.com (criswick) on 2007.09.05 at 21:03:13(16220) Dear George, Thank you very much indeed for putting me on to this wonderful firm in Suriname. I have already written to them. I feel sure that this must be the plant I'm looking for, and Julius did suggest that it might be X. brasiliense. However there seem to be a number of similar plants! John Criswick. +More -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of George Yao Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:40 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Aroid recipes/edibility Hello everyone, Could it be the Tanier Spinach? Here is a link for reference: http://www.tropilab.com/tanierspinach.html I tried ordering once and, unlucky for me, the tuber/rhizome just rotted after I planted it. One time when I learned that an acquaintance once stay in Surinam, I asked about it and was told that it tasted quite good. George Yao Metro-Manila At 9/4/2007 11:02 PM, you wrote: >Dear Julius, >>> > Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an >aroid called "spinach". It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves >about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and >had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was >necessary to avoid it "scratching" your mouth. It was regularly sold in the >market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada have >not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and >is it grown in Trinidad? > > Yours sincerely, > John Criswick. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 9:31 AM _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: gcyao at mydestiny.net (George Yao) on 2007.09.06 at 15:35:57(16228) John, If you acquire any from this source and it survives, be sure to let me know, and I will surely try again. George Yao +More Metro-Manila At 9/6/2007 05:03 AM, you wrote: >Dear George, > > Thank you very much indeed for putting me on to this wonderful firm >in Suriname. I have already written to them. I feel sure that this must be >the plant I'm looking for, and Julius did suggest that it might be X. >brasiliense. However there seem to be a number of similar plants! > >John Criswick. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of George Yao >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:40 AM >To: Discussion of aroids >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Aroid recipes/edibility > >Hello everyone, > >Could it be the Tanier Spinach? Here is a link for reference: >http://www.tropilab.com/tanierspinach.html > >I tried ordering once and, unlucky for me, the tuber/rhizome just >rotted after I planted it. > >One time when I learned that an acquaintance once stay in Surinam, I >asked about it and was told that it tasted quite good. > >George Yao >Metro-Manila > >At 9/4/2007 11:02 PM, you wrote: > > >Dear Julius, > > >>> > > > Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an > >aroid called "spinach". It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves > >about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and > >had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was > >necessary to avoid it "scratching" your mouth. It was regularly sold in the > >market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada >have > >not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and > >is it grown in Trinidad? > > > > Yours sincerely, > > John Criswick. > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 >9:31 AM > > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: >9/5/2007 2:55 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: 9/5/2007 2:55 PM

From: criswick at spiceisle.com (criswick) on 2007.09.07 at 12:10:10(16235) I have written to them and they promptly replied. Unfortunately I doubt that I would get permission to import rhizomes of a family constituting important food crops in this region, as there are nasty viruses in Xanthosomas. +More Julius, even though the species they have is incorrectly labelled, it would appear to be a Xanthosoma with edible young leaves, and therefore might be what I am looking for. I'm more interested in eating it than identifying it, I'm ashamed to admit! John. -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of George Yao Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:36 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Aroid recipes/edibility John, If you acquire any from this source and it survives, be sure to let me know, and I will surely try again. George Yao Metro-Manila At 9/6/2007 05:03 AM, you wrote: >Dear George, > > Thank you very much indeed for putting me on to this wonderful firm >in Suriname. I have already written to them. I feel sure that this must be >the plant I'm looking for, and Julius did suggest that it might be X. >brasiliense. However there seem to be a number of similar plants! > >John Criswick. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] >On Behalf Of George Yao >Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:40 AM >To: Discussion of aroids >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Aroid recipes/edibility > >Hello everyone, > >Could it be the Tanier Spinach? Here is a link for reference: >http://www.tropilab.com/tanierspinach.html > >I tried ordering once and, unlucky for me, the tuber/rhizome just >rotted after I planted it. > >One time when I learned that an acquaintance once stay in Surinam, I >asked about it and was told that it tasted quite good. > >George Yao >Metro-Manila > >At 9/4/2007 11:02 PM, you wrote: > > >Dear Julius, > > >>> > > > Anyway, my reason for writing is that in Guyana we used to eat an > >aroid called "spinach". It was smallish, with dark green sagittate leaves > >about 6 inches long and was cultivated on dry ground as far as I know, and > >had a very delicious flavour. As I remember it, thorough cooking was > >necessary to avoid it "scratching" your mouth. It was regularly sold in the > >market. I have seen it in Barbados, but attempts to grow it in Grenada >have > >not been successful. Do you recognize this plant from my description, and > >is it grown in Trinidad? > > > > Yours sincerely, > > John Criswick. > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 >9:31 AM > > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: >9/5/2007 2:55 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: 9/5/2007 2:55 PM _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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