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--- On Wed, 7/16/08, derek burch wrote:
> From: derek burch
> Subject: [Aroid-l] ubba dubba reticulata
> To: "'Discussion of aroids'"
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 1:57 AM
> Dear Pete and Leland and everyone.
>
>
>
> PLEASE don't just click 'Reply" without
> changing the subject line when the
> topic of your email has changed.
>
>
>
> I am interested in alocasias, I am interested in the
> alpha-taxonomist
> drought, but I should like to be able to open the emails
> that refer to a
> topic without having to take a lucky dip into what finally
> amounts to an
> email morass. At the moment it is a bit like my filing
> system in my office
> where everything goes into one file labeled "A" -
> that includes 'A letter',
> 'A reply' and so on. Very quick and easy. I do also
> have an "An" file where
> I put 'An invoice'
>
> , An unpaid account'.
>
>
>
> But I digress .
>
>
>
> Regards, to all,
>
>
>
> Derek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com]
> On Behalf Of Peter Boyce
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: Discussion of aroids
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>
>
>
> Dear Leland,
>
>
>
> Well, where I live unless there is a change in education
> policy to imbue
> those few (and it is FEW) students with some botanical
> aptitude, to gain
> knowledge of the basic building blocks of botany, notably
> comparative
> morphology ecology & geomorphology, the spectre of no
> wide-experience field
> botanists, already a fact in many parts of Asia, will
> become a region-wide
> problem. In fact the whole of taxonomy, let alone
> systematics, is in danger
> of slipping off the curriculum in universities throughout
> the region such
> that only the minute hard-core (essentially botanically
> hard-wired) folks
> will make it through and continue. The problem then will be
> that there are
> increasingly fewer jobs that call for taxonomic expertise
> such that those
> few that wish to remain in the field usually end up earning
> a living doing
> something at the best only tangentially associated with
> their passion. Of
> course the irony is that there has never been a greater
> need for taxonomic
> expertise in order to make the rational decisions required
> to protect the
> remaining tropical habitats.
>
>
>
> Curiously, I am not anywhere near as doubtful or indeed
> pessimistic about
> the increasing use of molecular data and also don't
> altogether agree with
> the total genome argument. Regarding the function of
> various parts of the
> molecular code, in recent years there has been made
> enormous strides in
> understanding what various coding regions 'do' such
> that the link with this
> and evo-devo is now a well established area of scientific
> exploration. Of
> course some of these areas are ferociously expensive but
> with molecular
> extraction methodologies and analyses programmes
> increasingly simplified
> costs are dropping such that basic extraction and
> methodologies are well
> within the budget of even quite modest research
> establishments.
>
>
>
> Regarding the usefulness of molecular data, especially
> vis-a-vis the ability
> of the molecular practitioners to actual identify the
> organisms they are
> studying, yes, I agree, that still far too many molecular
> research outputs
> are the product of lab rats without any practical field
> training and worse
> are oftentimes undertaken without or with only minimal
> taxonomic cross
> fertilization. However, that situation is fast becoming
> history as more and
> more multi-author research outputs based on sound
> alpha-taxonomy, with the
> molecular toolbox being opened only once a decent
> 'traditional' taxonomy is
> established and is testable. This is much the approach we
> are using, with a
> multi-stranded project that is investigating alpha-tax. and
> then
> phylogentics and then using the phylogenies to investigate
> spatial
> evolution, etc. We have been very fotunate to find good
> students who are
> willing to spend the necessary field time as part of their
> molecular-based
> research and as a result have a much more complete
> biological reserach
> toolbox.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The main problem here
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "brian lee" <
> lbmkjm at yahoo.com>
>
> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
>
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:45 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
>
>
>
> > Dear Pete,
> >
> > Aloha.
> >
> > What a shame. What will happen when there are no
> field botanists with the
> knowledge to recognize species in habitat? I have taken
> young molecular
> taxonomists into the field and some of them really have no
> clue what they
> are looking at until you tell them. At this rate, there
> will come a time
> when no field botanists will be able to lead them to their
> samples...which
> they send off to distant labs to analyze the relationships.
> >
> > The other problematic issue I see is that whole
> genomes are not analyzed,
> only sections that are not necessarily associated with
> known
> characteristics. I see a great need for traditional
> botany...but the lure
> of molecular biology is hooking most of the young fish
> these days. One day
> I see entire genomes of all plants being sequenced...which
> is a good thing
> in the long run. There will always be a great need for
> morphologists in the
> field, however...in my humble opinion...until all the
> plants are located on
> GPS and barcoded and linked to the great databases they
> envision. Who will
> control this information?
> >
> > In the meantime,I hope the horticulturists out there
> report their
> observations. Unfortunately, most of these plants are not
> associated with
> good locality data... It will serve as a survey of
> variation,however.
> >
> > Aloha,
> >
> > Leland
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/9/08, Peter Boyce <
>
> botanist at malesiana.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Peter Boyce <
>
> botanist at malesiana.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids" <
>
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
> >> Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 10:32 PM
> >> Hi Leland,
> >>
> >> I was more thinking along the lines that the
> numerous folks
> >> who grow
> >> Alocasia zebrina might pitch in with observations
> on the
> >> different
> >> menifestation that this species takes in
> cultivation.
> >>
> >> The Flora of the Philippines project is stll
> active but is
> >> suffering from
> >> the same problem besetting several similar
> projects in
> >> Asia, that of a
> >> dearth of botanists tackling alpha-taxonomy and
> the almost
> >> universal problem
> >> that so few students are coming into field-work
> based
> >> botany once they leave
> >> university such that as the few remaining active
> >> field-taxonomists/systematits become fewer still
> there are
> >> a
> >> disproportionately small number of young bloods
> entering
> >> the career.
> >>
> >> Pete
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "brian lee" <
> lbmkjm at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> <
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:17 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina reticulata
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear Pete,
> >> >
> >> > Aloha.
> >> >
> >> > It is hard to comment on issues that some of
> us have
> >> no knowledge on.
> >> > That is not to say we do not have an
> obsessive desire
> >> for knowledge. We
> >> > wait on bated breath for tidbits of treasure
> from you.
> >> >
> >> > The Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum used to
> participate
> >> in a program called,
> >> > the Philippine Flora Project that was to
> catalog as
> >> many of the in-situ
> >> > plants remaining in the archipelago...which
> was being
> >> destroyed at a pace
> >> > and scale that would see many habitats
> extirpated. I
> >> do not recall the
> >> > percentage of the destruction, but it was a
> >> significant proportion. My
> >> > point here is that if habitats are destroyed,
> it will
> >> be impossible to
> >> > reconstruct some of these interesting pearls
> of
> >> information we all desire.
> >> > I can ask Clyde Imada if Alocasia species
> were
> >> catalogued in this
> >> > program...hopefully your contact will respond
> with a
> >> wealth of new
> >> > information to enlighten the darkness. I am
> >> optimistic that Melanie will
> >> > answer the call.
> >> >
> >> > Aloha,
> >> >
> >> > Leland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Tue, 7/8/08, Peter Boyce
> >> <
> botanist at malesiana.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Peter Boyce <
>
> botanist at malesiana.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >> To: "Discussion of aroids"
> >> <
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Cc: "Melanie P. Medecilo -
> hotmail"
> >> <
> mmedecilo at hotmail.com>
> >> >> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 11:45 AM
> >> >> Hi Denis,
> >> >>
> >> >> I am quite surprised that no one has
> picked up on
> >> the last
> >> >> comment in your
> >> >> posting regarding the status of A.
> zebrina in
> >> cultivation.
> >> >>
> >> >> As you know, Alistair Hay in his
> herbarium-based
> >> account of
> >> >> Philippines'
> >> >> Alocasia (Gardens' Bulletin Singapore
> 51: 1-41
> >> (1999))
> >> >> treated A. zebrina as
> >> >> a variable species and included under
> that name A.
> >> >> wenzelii. He made no
> >> >> mention of the name A. tigrina (or A.
> zebrina
> >> tigrina) as
> >> >> this name and any
> >> >> combination thereof has never been
> formally
> >> published and
> >> >> thus from a strict
> >> >> botanical standpoint dos not exist.
> Goerverts et
> >> al.
> >> >> include a further name
> >> >> as a provisional syn. (A. liervalii) but
> without
> >> further
> >> >> discussion.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not withstanding the strict application
> of
> >> application of
> >> >> published names,
> >> >> it is clear to anyone who grows A.
> zebrina that
> >> there are
> >> >> several
> >> >> conspicuously different (but likewise
> clearly
> >> allied)
> >> >> entities in
> >> >> cultivation, among which the form with
> reticulated
> >> venation
> >> >> is particularly
> >> >> striking. What of course is needed is a
> >> comprehensive field
> >> >> study to try to
> >> >> untangle these cultivated clones and see
> where
> >> they may
> >> >> have originated. For
> >> >> that reason I have ccd this aroid-l
> posting to
> >> Melanie
> >> >> Medecilo in the
> >> >> Philippines; Melanie is currently working
> on
> >> >> Philippines' Alocasia and if
> >> >> anyone is able to shed some light on the
> status of
> >> the
> >> >> various clones of A.
> >> >> zebrina she can.
> >> >>
> >> >> Very best
> >> >>
> >> >> Peter
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Denis" <
> denis at skg.com>
> >> >> To: "'Discussion of
> aroids'"
> >> >> <
>
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com>
> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:23 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia zebrina
> reticulata
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina
> 'reticulata' was
> >> subsequently
> >> >> tissue cultured by
> >> >> > Oglesby Plant Labs in the 1980's
> to
> >> satisfy the
> >> >> small collector's market
> >> >> > for this unusual plant. Only about
> 1,000 to
> >> 1,500
> >> >> plants were produced
> >> >> > at that time. You might could ask
> Plantsman
> >> Jim
> >> >> Georgusis who currently
> >> >> > is working at Oglesby Plants if he
> knows
> >> anymore about
> >> >> the origins of
> >> >> > this cultivar. I think he worked at
> Fantastic
> >> Gardens
> >> >> in the 1970's.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The plant is currently being
> produced in
> >> Tissue
> >> >> Culture at Agristarts,
> >> >> > Inc. in Apopka Florida.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The question is still open as to
> whether or
> >> not
> >> >> Alocasia zebrina is true
> >> >> > species described in the literature
> somewhere
> >> or just
> >> >> a sub variety of
> >> >> > Alocasia tigrina group.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Denis
> >> >> > Silver Krome Gardens, Inc.
> >> >> > Homestead Florida
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From:
>
> aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> Harry Luther
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:05
> PM
> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I believe that I first saw an
> Alocasia
> >> >> "reticulata" at Fantastic
> Gardens
> >> >> > in Miami in the summer of 1976 in
> their
> >> private, keep
> >> >> out stock house.
> >> >> > This was when the Mentelos family
> had the
> >> nursery. My
> >> >> memory may be off
> >> >> > a bit as its filled with bromeliad
> stuff.
> >> HEL
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From:
>
> aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com]On
> >> Behalf Of
> >> >> brian lee
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:27
> PM
> >> >> > To: Discussion of aroids
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Dear Enid,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > About 1986, Roberto Burle-Marx,
> Betty Ho,
> >> Robert
> >> >> Hirano, and I went to
> >> >> > the Philippines. Corazon Aquino
> just became
> >> >> President, and it was a
> >> >> > wild time. Our host, Ronnie Lane
> was
> >> murdered a week
> >> >> before our trip
> >> >> > and our new host was Dr. Vic Santos.
> There is
> >> an
> >> >> Alocasia 'Vic Santos'
> >> >> > that we brought in for the first
> time. Vic
> >> made sure
> >> >> that we got all
> >> >> > sorts of Philippine plants,
> including many
> >> Alocasia
> >> >> species...including
> >> >> > Alocasia zebrina and several forms.
> Soon
> >> after our
> >> >> trip, Vic was
> >> >> > murdered at his farm. I do not know
> much
> >> about
> >> >> Alocasia, but Bob Hirano
> >> >> > does. Bob's collections are
> maintained
> >> at Lyon
> >> >> Arboretum and they will
> >> >> > have records of all that was
> collected. Bob
> >> has
> >> >> retired and his eyes
> >> >> > were messed up in a botched
> operation. If
> >> this forum
> >> >> does not come up
> >> >> > with an answer for you, I can
> contact Ray
> >> Baker at the
> >> >> Arboretum and he
> >> >> > may have some information on their
> BG-base
> >> data
> >> >> system. Another source
> >> >> > of information may be at the Bernice
> Pauahi
> >> Bishop
> >> >> Museum. They were
> >> >> > involved in the Philippine Flora
> Project and
> >> I can
> >> >> contact Clyde Imada
> >> >> > to see if they have any records in
> >> conjunction with
> >> >> this program.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I look forward to seeing what this
> thread
> >> reveals.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Aloha,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Leland
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- On Fri, 6/20/08, Enid
> >> <
> enigo at bellsouth.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> From: Enid <
> enigo at bellsouth.net>
> >> >> >> Subject: [Aroid-l] Alocasia
> zebrina
> >> reticulata
> >> >> >> To:
>
> aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >> Date: Friday, June 20, 2008,
> 4:55 PM
> >> >> >> OK, does anyone out there know
> where
> >> Alocasia
> >> >> zebrina reticulata
> >> >> >> originally came from? Is it a
> proper
> >> species or a
> >> >> mutant?
> >> >> >> Enid
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Natural Selections Exotics
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> www.NSExotics.com_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >>
>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >>
> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >
>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >
>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >> >
>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >> >
> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >>
>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________
> >> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >> >
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >> >
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Aroid-L mailing list
> >>
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> >>
>
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aroid-L mailing list
> >
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> >
>
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