IAS Aroid Quasi Forum

About Aroid-L
 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  Re: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata
From: Peter Boyce <phymatarum at googlemail.com> on 2010.04.12 at 02:30:18

Dear Michael,


I=92m by no means an authority on Monstera, and you mustcheck with Tom on this, but reading through Madison=92s synonymy and excluding dilacerataand its homotypical synonyms AND assuming that the description he gives istruly only a single species (far from the case in many of his taxa) AND allowingfor the fact that Madison=92s revision covers barely a third of the species thatprobably exist in Monstera AND there are also some blunders in the work,the next available name is indeed M. pinnatipartita.


Neotypified means that the all typical material cited when thename was published in destroyed (or believed so) and that a new type has been chosento represent the taxon.


Very best




From: Michael Pascall[mailto:mickpascall@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 5:19 PM
To: phymatarum@googlemail.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata


OK , so what is the species pictured as Mdilacerata in Madisons revision ? Because M siltepecana mature foliage isperforated and does not look anything like the incised leaf pictured for Mdilacerata there . Also pictures I have of the underneath of a mature leaf ofdilacerata shows two ribs , and I am pretty certain Epipremnum pinnatum onlyhas one .

OH I thought this was going to aroid-l but I see I am replying to you Peter ,,after reading the below , I think I am grasping this a bit now .
If neotypified means what I think , that is it is now a species and not asynonym . So is it now
Monstera pinnatipartita ?

Michael Pascall,

From: phymatarum@googlemail.com
To: Steve@ExoticRainforest.com; Thomas.Croat@mobot.org;phymatarum@googlemail.com; S.Mayo@kew.org
CC: mickpascall@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:00:37 +0800

Dear All,


Monstera dilacerata is DEFINITELY conspecificwith Epipremnum pinnatum. I sunk it!


ScindapsusdilaceratusC. Koch & Sello, Ind. Sem. Hort. Bot. Berol., App. (1853) 5. =97 Monsteradilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) C. Koch, Ind. Sem. Hort. Berol., App.(1855) 5. =97 Tornelia  dilacerata (C. Koch & Sello) Schott,Prodr. Syst. Aroid. (1860) 356. =97 Type: Cultivated Berlin Botanic Garden (B=86holo; K iso), syn. nov.



The above is cut and pasted from: Boyce (1998): The  Genus Epipremnum  Schott (Araceae=96Monsyeroideae=96Monstereee) in West and Central  Malesia, Blumea 43: 183=96213







From: ExoticRainforest[mailto:Steve@ExoticRainforest.com]
Sent: Monday, 12 April, 2010 12:03 PM
To: Tom Croat; Peter Boyce; Simon Mayo
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] More on Monstera dilacerata


Tom,I tried for several days to help Mic Pascall understand that Monsteradilacerata is no longer an accepted name with little success.  Hewrote to me several times this week and appears to feel this plant is in fact aNeotropical plant and as far as I know Mike Madison may have observed it.in thewild.  Mike at least does show an illustration of it on one page of hisrevision along with a discussion and TROPICOS still has it as a goodname.  CATE says it is now a synonym of Epipremnum pinnatum as doesMike Grayum in the quote which Mic used on Aroid l (in red below).  Thatquote came from MOBOT:  http://www.mobot.org/MOBOT/research/edge/jan98/jan98not.shtml

I realize Mic feels he is right but unless someone is about to reveal somethingnew, Monstera dilecerata appears to have been described from a culturedspecimen, perhaps incorrectly. 

I started to respond to his Aroid l post but since I am obviously not anauthority on any of this, a response that would best come from you, Pete (sincehe known Rhapidophora) or Simon.  I just wanted you to know wherehe got his quote since he sent it to me this past week trying to explain I waswrong (maybe I am).  I did a major search until I found the source.

I am copying this to Pete and Simon since I'd really like to see this oneresolved.  The plant I have as Monstera siltepecana is the one thatstarted all of this.  My plant was ID'd by Dylon Hannon as a juvenile buthas grown substantially since then.  It is developing fenestrations but sofar has not begun to morph.  The blades are about 10 inches long.  Ifmy plant is not M. siltepecana I will remove the page from the web.

You looked at this once before but were unsure of the juvenile photos.


See you in less than two weeks with Joep in tow!


Michael Pascall wrote:

Did a few more searches today for this sp.
And found it is still a valid species on GRIN ..

Taxon: Monsteradilacerata K. Koch

Genus: Monstera
Family: Araceae subfamily: Monsteroideaetribe: Monstereae.
Nomen number: 312844
Place of publication: A. C. H. Braun et al., App. gen. sp. nov. 5. 1855
Name verified on: 14-Oct-1987 by ARS Systematic Botanists. Lastupdated: 06-Nov-2006
Species priority site is: Natl. Germplasm Repository - Miami (MIA).

It isstill listed on Tropicos as well . So goes to show you cannot believeeverything you hear or read .. Is it just that it has not been updated ?

Or mistaken identity with mature foliage that got this statment ..

"The wantonly and inventively misapplied Monsteradilacerata (K. Koch & Sello) K. Koch is revealed to be a synonym of theAsian Epipremnum pinnatum  (L.) Engl., and the obscure Monsterapinnatipartita Schott is neotypified and resurrected for one of the four CostaRican spp. included under M. dilacerata in Madison's generic revision (Contr.Gray Herb. 207: 1-100. 1977). The redundant combination Monstera dissecta(Schott) Croat & Grayum (1987) is corrected to M. dissecta (Schott) N. E.Br. ex Donn. Sm. (1899). No illustrations. "

Icannot wait for the next revision .


Meetlocal singles online. Browse profiles for FREE!

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.