Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum

From: Alistair Hay <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2011.02.12 at 21:31:49 If only Dan Nicolson were around to answer this :) On my *limited* knowledge=2C it is complicated by that fact that=2C although we call these "latin" names=2C they are really "botanical latin" which is a kind of bastardized multicultural fruit salad=2C and one generally cannot tell the gender of a generic name just by looking at it=2C unless you have specialist knowledge of the "language". As a very very crude generalization=2C generic names are almost always nouns=2C usually feminine and tend to be from (or moulded into) greek=2C while species epithets are generally from latin and either nouns or adjectives.  =3BThere are many many exceptions though. Some are drawn from mediaeval latinized names themselves drawn from other languages besides greek or latin. Some are drawn from words in modern languages which may or may not have any gender themselves: e.g. the palm Licuala. What happens as a rule to the gender as words are transposed from various languages into botanical latin is a bit beyond me=2C I'm afraid. Dan had a paper on it in Taxon in 1994 which I don't have. =3B Here's a few examples of things which I have found confusing at one time or another! Genus names which commemorate people are nearly always feminine regardless of the gender of the person: Hence Bognera=2C but Hottarum is neuter because it is a portmanteau of Hotta and the neuter Arum. Some generic names which "look" feminine are neuter - as for example Aglaonema and Cyrtosperma=2C mentioned before. Neuter by the way is a definite linguistic gender: it is not "neutral" in the sense of being able to take any gender ending of adjective. A neuter noun must have an adjective in neuter form: so Aglaonema commutatum. And as you have pointed out=2C some generic names which "look" latin masculine=2C like Prunus=2C are feminine. Some adjectival species epithets are not latin: macrorrhizos is an example. It is greek=2C and both the feminine and masculine form of this adjective are spelled the same way: Hence Alocasia macrorrhizos. The neuter ending is -on=2C and this plant started out its nomenclatural life as Arum macrorrhizon=2C because Arum is neuter. When it was first transferred to Alocasia=2C the epithet was changed to the feminine-looking and widely used but grammatically incorrect "macrorrhiza"=2C later corrected by Dan. Some species epithets which look like adjectives are not: e.g. those ending in -icola are nouns (meaning  =3Binhabitant of ....  =3Bso monticola =3D inhabitant of mountains=3B vulcanicola =3D inhabitant of volcanoes). So it is Alocasia (f) monticola=2C Calochortus (m) paludicola and Arum (n) rupicola=2C and the gender of the genus does not affect the ending of the epithet. =3B Another case which it is easy to trip up on is when plant species are named for people. Wilbert's Typhonium is Typhonium wilbertii (the genitive singular of the latinized masculine proper noun Wilbertius). If Wilbert had been a woman=2C Wilbertha=2C it would have been the genitive singular of the latinized feminine proper noun Wilbertia=2C hence Typhonium wilbertiae. =3BBut if the plant had been intended to be called=2C adjectivally=2C the Wilbertian Typhonium=2C it would have had the neuter ending Typhonium wilbertianum because Typhonium is neuter=2C regardless of whether W was Wilbert or Wilbertha! From: abri1973@wp.pl To: aroid-l@www.gizmoworks.com Date: Sat=2C 12 Feb 2011 16:54:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum One more thing: Quercus=2C Fagus=2C Fraxinus=2C Malus=2C Pyrus=2C Prunus=2C Pinus=2C Alnus=2C Eucalyptus =3B- all they end with -us suggesting a masculine gender while most of their specific epithets are feminine. Can a Latin feminine word end with -us?  =3B Marek  =3B  =3B ----- Original Message ----- From: Alistair Hay To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday=2C February 10=2C 2011 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum The gender of a genus is unrelated to the habit of the plants it contains=2C though I think it is true to say that a majority of generic names are feminine. Calophyllum is a neuter genus of trees=2C and Elaeocarpus is a masculine one=2C for example. A On 09/02/2011=2C at 10:13 PM=2C Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <=3Beduardo.goncalves@inhotim.org.br>=3B wrote: Dear Dylan=2C All "tradicional" trees are female in Latin. The question is that "tradicional" are trees defined as so. Syagrus is a female word because it is considered a tree but probably Cicerus never mentioned it in his classical texts. Moreover=2C we are not exactly sure that all palms are trees (mainly in Syagrus=2C with plants of some species reaching no more than 30 cm tall). =3B The borderline is quite fuzzy and tricky. =3B Very best wishes=2C =3B Eduardo. =3B Em 08/02/2011=2C =E0s 12:24=2C Hannon escreveu: Dear Eduardo=2C Thank you for this inquiry=2C it is good to know these things. Alistair=2C So would we have Alocasia scalprifolia for an adjectival epithet then? Regarding the example of Pinus=2C I believe all tree genera are regarded as feminine=2C no matter their origin. How lines are drawn between trees and non-trees I do not know. Regards=2C Dylan Hannon On 7 February 2011 07:12=2C Eduardo Gomes Goncalves <=3Beduardo.goncalves@inhotim.org.br>=3B wrote: Dear Alistair =3B You are absolutely correct. I have re-checked this morning and "titanum" is the genitive plural of "titan" so it means exactly "of the titans". Since it came from greek=2C its declension is anomalous. =3B Many thanks for your help. =3B Very best wishes=2C Eduardo. =3B Em 06/02/2011=2C =E0s 21:15=2C Alistair Hay escreveu: I think the point is that not all speces epithets are adjectival=2C so they do not necessarily have to agree with the gender of the genus. For example in Alocasia scalprum the epithet is a noun which happens to be neuter: the knife alocasia. An adjectival latin epithet in Alocasia would indeed be feminine:  =3BAlocasia indica: the indian Alocasia. Aglaonema is a neuter genus=2C as are Cyrtosperma=2C Arisaema and Syngonium. So its Aglaonema rotundum=2C Cyrtosperma cuspidispathum=2C Arisaema concinnum and Syngonium chiapense when the epithet is adjectival. In Amorphophallus titanum=2C  =3Bthe epithet is not an adjective. I am uncertain but fairly sure it is the genitive plural=2C meaning "of the titans" or something like that. It does not mean the adjective "titanic". Alistair On 05/02/2011=2C at 10:50 PM=2C "Marek Argent" <=3Babri1973@wp.pl>=3B wrote: Dear Eduardo=2C  =3B A good point.  =3B The suffix -um is neutral and it =3Bfits to all grammatic genera: Also feminine botanical genera species epithet can end with -um=2C the examples are: Arisaema triphyllum=2C =3BAlocasia scalprum=2C Aglaonema commutatum=2C Syngonium auritum... But indeed=2C I have never =3Bheard another =3Bconstruction like Amorphophallus titanum.  =3B I always wondered =3Bwhy Alocasia macrorrhizos is a proper name=2C =3Bthe epithet is of Greek origin=2C and I don't know why it is =3Bnamed so. The suffix -os is masculine in Greek=2C and Alocasia is feminine. And what do you think about the name Synandrospadix vermitoxicus? I can't find anywhere what is the gender of the word "spadix". Isn't it feminine?  =3B There is also =3Bone important note=2C many people erroneously take genera ending with =3B-is as masculine=2C but it is feminine=2C Ariopsis peltata =3Bor in other families Iris =3Bpumila=2C Clematis lanuginosa =3Betc. =3B Also the genera ending with -as are feminine: Anubias gigantea=2C Zamioculcas zamiifolia=2C Cycas revoluta. But... the pine tree=2C Pinus seems to be a masculine word=2C and we have Pinus sylvestris=2C P. excelsa=2C P. nigra=2C while =3Bsome other species of pine end usually with -us: like =3BPinus strobus.  =3B Strange things... Marek ----- Original Message ----- From: Eduardo Gomes Goncalves To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday=2C February 03=2C 2011 4:34 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Amorphophallus titanum Dear fellows=2C =3B I have a silly (but important) question for you. As far as I know=2C Amophophallus is a masculine word=2C am I correct? In Latin=2C except for the name of traditional trees (Malus=2C Pyrus=2C etc)=2C all names ended in -us are male names. So it is correct to say that all adjective epithets in Amorphophallus species  =3Bend with -us (A. gomboczianus=2C A. hirsutus=2C A lunatus=2C A. glaucophyllus=2C etc). =3B Why Amophophallus titanum is not A. titanus? Other species with a similar epithet (I don't remember none in plant kingdom=2C but I know Dorcus titanus - a beetle)...  =3BWilbert=2C do you have any reason for this? Very best wishes=2C Eduardo. =3B INHOTIM =3B Dr. EDUARDO G. GON=C7ALVES Curador Bot=E2nico Jardim Bot=E2nico Rua B=2C 20 =3B 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 =3B Ramal Fixo 107 =3B =3B  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B+55 31 9604.8618 =3B Ramal 380 Rua Ant=F4nio de Albuquerque=2C 215 | Funcion=E1rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil =3B +55 31 3223.8224 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B  =3B Antes de imprimir=2C pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.  =3B _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3423 - Release Date: 02/04/11 _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l INHOTIM =3B Dr. EDUARDO G. 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GON=C7ALVES Curador Bot=E2nico Jardim Bot=E2nico Rua B=2C 20 =3B 35460-000 | Brumadinho | MG | Brasil +55 31 3571.6638 =3B Ramal Fixo 107 =3B =3B  =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B+55 31 9604.8618 =3B Ramal 380 Rua Ant=F4nio de Albuquerque=2C 215 | Funcion=E1rios 30112-010 | Belo Horizonte | MG | Brasil =3B +55 31 3223.8224 =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B  =3B Antes de imprimir=2C pense em sua responsabilidade com o Meio Ambiente.  =3B _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l No virus found in the message. 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