identity of the dwarf Monstera deliciosa

From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.05.27 at 02:21:49(4639) Folks The dwarf Monstera deliciosa that many of you grow is Rhaphidophora tetrasperma, native to Peninsular malaysia and southern Thailand. Pete +More ---------------------------- Peter Boyce Herbarium Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Richmond, Surrey TW9 3AE Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207 fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278 email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work) boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)

From: Betsytrips at aol.com on 2000.05.27 at 15:25:49(4643) Interesting information. Thanks for coming thru with it. Has this just been ID'ed or has this info been around for a bit? Betsy

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2000.05.27 at 20:48:58(4645) At 08:25 AM 05/27/2000, Betsytrips@aol.com wrote: >Interesting information. Thanks for coming thru with it. Has this just been >ID'ed or has this info been around for a bit? > >Betsy +More I think i have this thing. i have been waiting for it to attain adult size for 8 years. hermine

From: "Peter Boyce" Boyce at pothos.demon.co.uk> on 2000.05.28 at 21:24:36(4648) Betsy, Hermine and others I've only recently been lucky enough to study flowering material of the 'dwarf Monstera deliciosa' in Munich B.G. so it's new info. Pete

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.05.30 at 22:19:01(4651) We have this "dwarf Monstera deliciosa" here at Selby Gardens. It has always been puzzling. Some people thought it might be an unknown Amydrium. I believe this plant has been discussed on the newslist before and I am sure everyone is relieved to know what it really is. We got this plant when it was in the trade about 8-10 years ago, back when it was common practice to use tree fern totems for growing vines. Origin was unknown. When grown on a totem, it has the ungainly habit of sending its long shoots downward. We propagated divisions of this plant and grew them out in our display house to see if leaves or growth habit would change once it grew larger. After the stems grew down and touched the ground then they headed back upwards, but tended to scramble around quite a bit. This behavior made it difficult to keep the plant on the totem. Guess this is why it went out of production. Its an easy plant to grow in central-south Florida but never gets large leaf blades like Monstera deliciosa. Since it so resembled a Monstera everyone came to call it the "dwarf" Monstera deliciosa. That name never seemed to "fit" but at least it gave us something to call it. Rhaphidophora look very much like Monstera. Being in the same subtribe they must be closely related. What are the main morphological differences between Monstera and Rhaphidophora? Is it primarily some kind of microscopic character (locules, placentation?) that distinquishes the two genera? Donna Atwood Selby Gardens +More In a message dated 05/26/2000 10:22:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk writes: << The dwarf Monstera deliciosa that many of you grow is Rhaphidophora tetrasperma, native to Peninsular malaysia and southern Thailand. >>

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.05.30 at 22:26:14(4656) Dear Pete and Friends, I`m JUST back from a few days in Fr. Guyana, so am not 'up' on this discussion, but have read where you ID the 'Dwarf' Monstera deliciosa as a Raphidophora from Malasia. There is, however, a small ('Dwarf'?) true form of varigated Monstera deliciosa around in collections here in Florida, the leaves are about 6"-8" in Dia., and it seems to have more of a climbing habit and has longer internodes than the 'regular' Monstera deliciosa. Which one are we refering to? Hermine seems to have the 'true' one. Cheers, Julius +More >Betsy, Hermine and others I've only recently been lucky enough to study flowering material of the 'dwarf Monstera deliciosa' in Munich B.G. so it's new info. Pete

From: Mitsukiwi at aol.com on 2000.05.31 at 02:16:16(4657) Is there a picture of this plant somewhere on the web or did I miss it? TIA, Nancy +More FL/10

From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.01 at 23:56:53(4671) Dear Donna (and anyone else) Rhaphidophora and Monstera are, indeed, separated on fruit characteristics. Rhaphidophora has it's seeds (usually many, occasionally as few as four) arranged in two ranks running up the walls of the fruit and the mature seeds have endosperm; Monstera has few seeds (four, occasionally less), arranged in pairs in the middle of the fruit and the mature seeds lack endosperm. Fascinating, eh? Pete +More ---------------------------- Peter Boyce Herbarium Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Richmond, Surrey TW9 3AE Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207 fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278 email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work) boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.06.03 at 01:47:23(4675) Pete, thanks for the explanation. I checked "Genera of the Araceae" and it seemed that the number of ovules and placentation were different but I did not read on further about the seeds. Is Monstera the only genus within the Monstereae without endosperm? +More Donna Atwood << Rhaphidophora and Monstera are, indeed, separated on fruit characteristics. Rhaphidophora has it's seeds (usually many, occasionally as few as four) arranged in two ranks running up the walls of the fruit and the mature seeds have endosperm; Monstera has few seeds (four, occasionally less), arranged in pairs in the middle of the fruit and the mature seeds lack endosperm. Fascinating, eh? >>

From: "Peter Boyce" Boyce at pothos.demon.co.uk> on 2000.06.03 at 14:56:27(4684) Hi Donna In Monstereae, Monstera is the only genus lacking endosperm (although endosperm is spase in Rhodospatha and Scindapsus and we don't know what the seeds of Alloschemone are like). In the Mosteroideae endosperm is absent in Anadendrum and Heteropsis (Anandendreae and Heteropsideae). Off to Leiden to attend a Biogeography conference later today - back next Friday. +More How're things with you? All the best Pete

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.06.04 at 22:06:38(4687) Dear Friends, I am trying to get this 'dwarf Monstera deliciosa' item clear in my brain---are we saying that there are NO plants that look VERY simular to the 'giant' Monstera deliciosa that are collections of a smaller, 'dwarf' form of this giant plant from Mexico (and Guatemala??). There are small plants around with leaves about 10" or so across that are called M. deliciosa, one form has white stripes/varigations on its leaves, the other is plain green. >From waht I recall these smaller plants do not have as many splits and fenestrations ('windows') in their leaf blades. I believe that these were discussed on this L some time ago, and the opinion then was that these were a newer collection than the old, giant form of M. deliciosa, and that maybe they were from Guatemala??? SO---we are concluding that there is only the original GIANT form of M. deliciosa from Mexico, and that the smaller plants that LOOK simular in shape and form, but are more 'viney' than this giant plant, all of these plants are in fact Raphidophora tertasperma from Thailand?? Have a great trip, Pete, and we look forward to hearing from you on your return. Cheers, Julius +More >Hi Donna In Monstereae, Monstera is the only genus lacking endosperm (although endosperm is spase in Rhodospatha and Scindapsus and we don't know what the seeds of Alloschemone are like). In the Mosteroideae endosperm is absent in Anadendrum and Heteropsis (Anandendreae and Heteropsideae). Off to Leiden to attend a Biogeography conference later today - back next Friday. How're things with you? All the best Pete

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.06.08 at 21:35:37(4690) Dear Friends, I believe that some clarification on this issue is in order, as there IS in fact a smaller or several smaller 'clones' of TRUE Monstera deliciosa in cultivation, in addition to the 'dwarf' plant which looks like a small M. deliciosa which Pete has kindly I.D.`d as Raphidophora tetrasperma from Peninsular Malaysia. The late Dr. Monroe Birdsey had a plant of this Raphidophora in his collection in Miami, which I believe he did not know the I.D. of though it was know to have been from Asia. Dr Tom Croat has confirmed that he has seen the very large, more well-know var. of M. deliciosa in only one area of Mexico, on limestone cliffs in the Uxpanapa region. He says -- 'Elsewhere most of the populations are smaller, some perforated and or incised-lobate or not, but not elaborately so. In Panama, for example the blades are often not even perforate. Nevertheless the inflorescences are the same throughout and there appear to be no major discontinuities of characteres for all these populations'. So--there are plants of smaller ('dwarf'?) Monstera deliciosa around in collections, both all-green and varigated, and in addition there may be this small species from Asia, Raphidophora tetrasperma which could be mistaken for a dwarf form of Monstera deliciosa. Hope we are clearer on this now!! Thanks to Tom for the clarification. Cheers and good growing to all, Julius +More >Pete, thanks for the explanation. I checked "Genera of the Araceae" and it seemed that the number of ovules and placentation were different but I did not read on further about the seeds. Is Monstera the only genus within the Monstereae without endosperm? Donna Atwood << Rhaphidophora and Monstera are, indeed, separated on fruit characteristics. Rhaphidophora has it's seeds (usually many, occasionally as few as four) arranged in two ranks running up the walls of the fruit and the mature seeds have endosperm; Monstera has few seeds (four, occasionally less), arranged in pairs in the middle of the fruit and the mature seeds lack endosperm. Fascinating, eh? >>

From: "Peter Boyce" Boyce at pothos.demon.co.uk> on 2000.06.10 at 17:13:36(4708) Dear All There are two clones of true M. deliciosa in cultivation. One is a giant with roughened petioles and leaves up to metre long and wide with deep splits and lots of medium to quite large perforations. The other clone is a much more gracile thing with smooth petioles and smaller leaves with fewer perforations. This latter clone is the one that is most often sold commercially in Europe. The latter plant is also available in a white-variegated form. Both the giant rough-petioled and the smaller smooth-petioled plant, are stout climbers, are never slender-stemmed and viny in the way the so-called 'dwarf M. deliciosa' (i.e. R. tetrasperma) and both match very well M. delicosa in the wild in Mexico and Guatemala. Rhaphidophora tetrasperma is long-stemmed, slender and viny, leaves are seldom more than 25 cm long and wide, are few-splitting and have no perforations. Infloresecences are not more than 10 cm long (M. deliciosa produces much, much larger inflorescences, and are carried at the tips of long, often pendent, stems that hang free in the air (M. deliciosa flowers at the tips of stems clinging to the climbing surface. Best wishes Pete

Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.