Raphidophora vs. Monstera - or maybe neither?

From: Jonathan Ertelt jonathan.ertelt at vanderbilt.edu> on 2000.06.14 at 02:13:34(4761) I have been having trouble posting to the aroid list for the last few days - the following was posted for me by Jack last night, but I'm reposting it as part of a test to see if the listserve will accept my posts now. If you didn't see what follows when Jack posted it, it is worth looking at. Thanks Jonathan +More At 12:18 PM -0500 6/10/00, Julius Boos wrote: >Dear Jack, > >Many 'vining' Aroids do this, Philodendron, Monstera and Raphidophora come >to mind, it is a response to the growing conditions, and is a 'juvinile' >form of the plant which does and will change to one with 'normal' leaves >once it encounters different/'better' conditions higher up the tree, rock >face, or in the case of Fairchild Gardens, the wall! >Good luck in your quest! > Julius, Jack, et al., This is a most interesting plant growing at Fairchild. The difficulty regarding the 'juvinile' vs. 'normal' leaf type for this species is what can one mean by juvinile? The reason I ask this is that this plant blooms underneath those shield-like leaves, and has been doing so for years. Craig Allen was generous enough to let me have a piece when I was at UNC Charlotte, to grow there, and pointed out this phenomenon. He said, if I remember correctly, that it was labeled Raphidophora because they didn't know what else to label it. However, the inflorescences are small, not protruding from underneath the appressed shingle leaves - you don't know it's blooming unless you a.) prune it back, or b.) grow it on glass and look at it from the back side! It does certainly look like the silver-white veined plant that Geoffrey Kibby put on his website (Hello Geoffrey!) I am by no means an expert on Araceae - however, I would venture to say that the shingles leaves here are the mature leaves, and that this does not fit into any standard understanding of any of the genera in the tribe Monstereae. Regarding the idea of mature leaves, a healthy plant in good light will have leaves slightly overlapping - same plant goes to low light or falls from support, internodal growth stretches out and leaves can be greatly reduced. Improve conditions, leaves will go to previous description - i.e. always shingle type leaves, including after blooming has commenced, as stated above. Regarding not in any genera in Monstereae, this is simply based on a quick glance through of illustrations in _The Genera of Araceae, and a scanning of descriptions. Would be most interested in hearing opinions advanced. Good Growing. Jonathan Jonathan Ertelt Greenhouse Manager Vanderbilt University Biology Department Box 1812, Sta. B Nashville, TN 37235 (615) 322-4054

From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.14 at 21:37:17(4767) Jonathan This is fascinating - I assuemt that while not fitting a genus in the Monstereae that the inflorescences are right for the family? Does anyone have a pic of this thing is flower? Clearly if this this is doing as described AND is an aroid then it ain't M. dubia BUT in my defence that plant we have here at Kew, that matches the Amsterdam and Geoggrey's plant, is a perfect match for the juvenile stage of M. dubia preerved on the type specimen of that name. This is VERY interesting. Pete +More ---------------------------- Peter Boyce Herbarium Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Richmond, Surrey TW9 3AE Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207 fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278 email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work) boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)

From: GeoffAroid at aol.com on 2000.06.14 at 23:50:08(4779) In a message dated 14/6/00 10:37:42 pm, p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk writes: << This is fascinating - I assuemt that while not fitting a genus in the Monstereae that the inflorescences are right for the family? Does +More anyone have a pic of this thing is flower? >> Peter, If Hans Hvissers in Amsterdam is listening in (he often is I know) he might be the one to ask to check, he has a wall and base of a large tank absolutely covered in the thing, my pieces are too new and only just established I think to flower (but be sure I will be checking.....). I dont think Hans has let any of his material race upwards and produce mature leaves (or perhaps these ARE the mature leaves!), the largest leaves I saw on his plants were about 4-5inches across and still looked the same as in my pics. As you say, a fascinating puzzle and one which I am sure we can get to the bottom of. On a separate topic, can you tell me why there are no intergeneric hybrids in the Araceae? Or is that incorrect? If it is correct is this just because nobod y has tried or do the genera really have that much of a genetic barrier. It seems so odd since hardly any other family I can think of has such rigid barriers, either genetic, physical or otherwise. Many thanks, Geoffrey

From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.15 at 21:45:58(4788) Geoffrey The lack of intergeneric hybrids is not total. A Japanese plant geneticist has crossed Alocasia odora with C. esculenta (very poor seed set and those seedlings raised v. weak growing -as of last year none yet flowered) which suggests that there may well be complex barriers to overcome (since Alocasia and Colocasia are certainly v. closely related). However, another reason is undoubtedly that no-one has ever really tried. Pete +More ---------------------------- Peter Boyce Herbarium Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Richmond, Surrey TW9 3AE Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207 fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278 email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work) boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)

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