IAS on Facebook
IAS on Instagram
|
IAS Aroid Quasi Forum
About Aroid-L
This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
Rhaphidophora sp. at Fairchild Tropical Garden
|
From: "FTG Conservatory, Craig Allen" conserv at netrox.net> on 2000.06.17 at 00:51:23(4807)
I haven't had time to write until now...
The plant in discussion at FTG is
Rhaphidophora sp. FG74407 S. E. Asia
COMMON NAME: Shingle plant
SOURCE: Botanic Garden, Lae, New Guinea
DESCRIPTION: beautiful 2-4" round, silver-veined flat dark green leaves,
clasping wall. This plant has small 2" spadix barely emerging from between
the clasped leaves.
At Fairchild Tropical Garden this plant is now growing in the epiphyte room
of the Conservatory. It has attached itself to the concrete walls behind the
bromeliad tree. I also have Monstera dubia growing in a nearby area of the
Conservatory. The Monstera closely resembles in its juvenile state. They are
very different in their leaf texture. The monstera is fairly hard in
texture, the vine itself very fibrous and tough. The Raph. is very fragile
and crisp in texture, being damaged very easily. The Raph has a vein pattern
on a very dark green background but none of the silver suffused over the
young M. dubia. M. dubia has larger juvenile foliage with a much lighter
green background color. The leaves of the Raph are thinner and clasp much
tighter to their host. Many visitors have commented that the leaves look
painted on to the wall.
I had once told Jonathan Ertelt that it bloomed behind the clasped leaf, and
at one time it did. For the last year the inflorescence has begun to emerge
from between the tightly clasped leaves on a very short side shoot that
usually emerges about half way up the vine. It has two half hidden
abbreviated bract like leaves, then the 2" inflorescence. The white spathe
is cupped around a short spadix. After a week or two the inflorescence
fades, the bract like leaves yellow and the side shoot dies entirely. So far
it has never bloomed at the growing tip of the climbing vine.
Who knows what it might someday grow into. For many years I grew this tiny
little aroid, Pothodianum. The slender thread like vine and narrow 3/4" leaf
were so fragile. I put a propagation at the base of a tree in the
Conservatory. With in one month I was having to trim masses of the 12"
leaves and rope like vine off the orchids that it had covered.
I had intended to take a herbarium specimen of the Rhaphidophora when it
bloomed last year, but that never happened. Maybe then the identity might be
found.
Craig Allen
| +More |
Conservatory Manager
Fairchild Tropical Garden
>Dear Friends,
>
>I was most interested to read the below, I did not know that some of these
>shingle plants would and in fact did bloom at this stage, so look forward
to
>Pete`s opinion as to the 'why' of this to-me unusual occurence!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Julius
>
>At 12:18 PM -0500 6/10/00, Julius Boos wrote:
>
>>Dear Jack,
>>
>>Many 'vining' Aroids do this, Philodendron, Monstera and Raphidophora come
>>to mind, it is a response to the growing conditions, and is a 'juvinile'
>>form of the plant which does and will change to one with 'normal' leaves
>>once it encounters different/'better' conditions higher up the tree, rock
>>face, or in the case of Fairchild Gardens, the wall!
>>Good luck in your quest!
>>
>
>>>Julius, Jack, et al.,
>
>This is a most interesting plant growing at Fairchild. The difficulty
>regarding the 'juvinile' vs. 'normal' leaf type for this species is what
>can one mean by juvinile? The reason I ask this is that this plant blooms
>underneath those shield-like leaves, and has been doing so for years.
>Craig Allen was generous enough to let me have a piece when I was at UNC
>Charlotte, to grow there, and pointed out this phenomenon. He said, if I
>remember correctly, that it was labeled Raphidophora because they didn't
>know what else to label it. However, the inflorescences are small, not
>protruding from underneath the appressed shingle leaves - you don't know
>it's blooming unless you a.) prune it back, or b.) grow it on glass and
>look at it from the back side! It does certainly look like the
>silver-white veined plant that Geoffrey Kibby put on his website (Hello
>Geoffrey!) I am by no means an expert on Araceae - however, I would
>venture to say that the shingles leaves here are the mature leaves, and
>that this does not fit into any standard understanding of any of the genera
>in the tribe Monstereae. Regarding the idea of mature leaves, a healthy
>plant in good light will have leaves slightly overlapping - same plant goes
>to low light or falls from support, internodal growth stretches out and
>leaves can be greatly reduced. Improve conditions, leaves will go to
>previous description - i.e. always shingle type leaves, including after
>blooming has commenced, as stated above. Regarding not in any genera in
>Monstereae, this is simply based on a quick glance through of illustrations
>in _The Genera of Araceae, and a scanning of descriptions.
>
>Would be most interested in hearing opinions advanced. Good Growing.
>
>Jonathan
>
>Jonathan Ertelt
>Greenhouse Manager
>Vanderbilt University Biology Department
>Box 1812, Sta. B
>Nashville, TN 37235
>(615) 322-4054<<<
>
>
>
|
|
From: "Peter Boyce" Boyce at pothos.demon.co.uk> on 2000.06.17 at 15:30:37(4814)
Dear Craig
This is VERY interesting and whatever genus your plant turns out to belong
(I'm now quite convinced that it IS a Rhaphidophora - see below) to it is
definitely an undescribed species.
Further, and contrary to my earlier emails giving this plant the name
Monstera dubia, this is clearly not going to grow into anything other then
what it is displaying already. It seems to be another of the extreme
neotenic Rhaphidophora species that are on New Guinea.
These extreme neotenic Rhaphidophora species are uncommon (five recorded to
date; three in New Guinea and Australia (R. hayi, R. pachyphylla, R.
okapensis), one in Maluku (R. parvifolia) and one in Borneo (R.
latevaginata) but none flower in the manner you have described for the
Fairchild plant, which is why I am now sure that it's new.
I am presently writing an account of Rhaphidophora for New Guinea, Australia
and the tropical Western Pacific and would be really grateful if you could
keep an eye out for flowering of your plant this summer and, if possible,
preserve an inflorescence or two into 70% alcohol as it opens. I will be in
Fairchild for the IAS Annual this September - could we meet up and take a
look at this plant?
Many thanks in advance
Pete
| +More |
Peter C. Boyce
Herbarium
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
Richmond
Surrey TW9 3AE
UK
Tel.: (+44) (0) 20 8 573 1212 (home)
(+44) (0) 20 8 332 5207 (work)
Fax: (+44) (0) 20 8 332 5278
email: boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)
p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work)
|
|
From: GeoffAroid at aol.com on 2000.06.19 at 02:22:10(4831)
In a message dated 17/6/00 1:51:51 am, conserv@netrox.net writes:
>The plant in discussion at FTG is
>Rhaphidophora sp. FG74407 S. E. Asia
>COMMON NAME: Shingle plant
>SOURCE: Botanic Garden, Lae, New Guinea
>DESCRIPTION: beautiful 2-4" round, silver-veined flat dark green leaves,
>clasping wall. This plant has small 2" spadix barely emerging from between
>the clasped leaves.
| +More |
Hi Craig, Jack, Peter et al,
Just got back from a weekend conference to find the numerous messages about
the mystery shingle aroid - this is such exciting stuff! Glad you were able
to gives us the differences between your Monstera dubia and this mystery
(probable) Rhaphidophora. We obviously are all talking about the same plant.
I must ask Hans Hvissers in Holland where his plants originated from (and
which I now have cuttings of). My three plants are racing away and send out
new shoots all over the place and already they are beginning to flatten
themselves against the bark. I shall watch them daily to see if any flowers
appear! Do they flower all year round or are they seasonal Craig? As they get
bigger I will propagate and distribute where possible. Thanks also to all
those who replied concerning hybridization between aroid genera.....again,
interesting stuff.
Regards to all,
Geoffrey Kibby
London
|
|
From: Jack Honeycutt jhoneycutt at uswest.net> on 2000.06.19 at 21:27:37(4845)
At 10:32 AM 6/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>It seems to be another of the extreme
>neotenic Rhaphidophora species that are on New Guinea.
Wow! This is getting fun!
jack
| |
|
From: "FTG Conservatory, Craig Allen" conserv at netrox.net> on 2000.06.19 at 21:38:24(4850)
>I shall watch them daily to see if any flowers
>appear! Do they flower all year round or are they seasonal Craig?
Dear Geoffrey Kibby,
I made no notation on the record, but I seem to remember it blooming in the
summer while it is growing rapidly.
Craig
| +More |
-----Original Message-----
To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L
Date: Sunday, June 18, 2000 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Rhaphidophora sp. at Fairchild Tropical Garden
>In a message dated 17/6/00 1:51:51 am, conserv@netrox.net writes:
>
>>The plant in discussion at FTG is
>>Rhaphidophora sp. FG74407 S. E. Asia
>>COMMON NAME: Shingle plant
>>SOURCE: Botanic Garden, Lae, New Guinea
>>DESCRIPTION: beautiful 2-4" round, silver-veined flat dark green leaves,
>>clasping wall. This plant has small 2" spadix barely emerging from between
>>the clasped leaves.
|
|
From: "FTG Conservatory, Craig Allen" conserv at netrox.net> on 2000.06.19 at 22:04:18(4851)
Dear Peter,
I will see you in September, and will try to get an inflorescence preserved.
I want to ask Dr. Scott Zona to make a herbarium specimen.
Craig
| +More |
-----Original Message-----
To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L
Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Rhaphidophora sp. at Fairchild Tropical Garden
>Dear Craig
>
>This is VERY interesting and whatever genus your plant turns out to belong
>(I'm now quite convinced that it IS a Rhaphidophora - see below) to it is
>definitely an undescribed species.
>
>Further, and contrary to my earlier emails giving this plant the name
>Monstera dubia, this is clearly not going to grow into anything other then
>what it is displaying already. It seems to be another of the extreme
>neotenic Rhaphidophora species that are on New Guinea.
>
>These extreme neotenic Rhaphidophora species are uncommon (five recorded to
>date; three in New Guinea and Australia (R. hayi, R. pachyphylla, R.
>okapensis), one in Maluku (R. parvifolia) and one in Borneo (R.
>latevaginata) but none flower in the manner you have described for the
>Fairchild plant, which is why I am now sure that it's new.
>
>I am presently writing an account of Rhaphidophora for New Guinea,
Australia
>and the tropical Western Pacific and would be really grateful if you could
>keep an eye out for flowering of your plant this summer and, if possible,
>preserve an inflorescence or two into 70% alcohol as it opens. I will be in
>Fairchild for the IAS Annual this September - could we meet up and take a
>look at this plant?
>
>Many thanks in advance
>
>Pete
>
>
>Peter C. Boyce
>Herbarium
>Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
>Richmond
>Surrey TW9 3AE
>UK
>
>Tel.: (+44) (0) 20 8 573 1212 (home)
> (+44) (0) 20 8 332 5207 (work)
>Fax: (+44) (0) 20 8 332 5278
>email: boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)
> p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work)
>
>
>
|
|
From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.20 at 22:12:35(4857)
Dear Craig (and Scott)
You're stars!
Pete
| +More |
----------------------------
Peter Boyce
Herbarium
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
Richmond, Surrey
TW9 3AE
Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207
fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278
email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work)
boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)
|
|
From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.20 at 22:12:47(4858)
Jack
Yes, it is, although are so many new Rhaphs in New Guinea that
I'm running out of specific epithets!
Pete
| +More |
----------------------------
Peter Boyce
Herbarium
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
Richmond, Surrey
TW9 3AE
Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207
fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278
email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work)
boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)
|
|
From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2000.06.21 at 01:55:35(4866)
In a message dated Tue, 20 Jun 2000 6:13:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
"Peter Boyce" writes:
<< Jack
| +More |
Yes, it is, although are so many new Rhaphs in New Guinea that
I'm running out of specific epithets!
Pete
Guess it's time to start getting creative. (In college, I saw a reference
in one of my textbooks to an insect whose scientific name was Lalapa lusa.)
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large
|
|
From: "Peter Boyce" p.boyce at rbgkew.org.uk> on 2000.06.22 at 00:34:29(4875)
Jason
WONDERFUL.
My mainstay for epithets is a very venerable 'Latin and Greek for
Scientists' that contains all manner of obscure terms and their
classical translation.
Pete
| +More |
----------------------------
Peter Boyce
Herbarium
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
Richmond, Surrey
TW9 3AE
Tel. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5207
fax. (+44) (0)20 8 332 5278
email: p.boyce@rbgkew.org.uk (work)
boyce@pothos.demon.co.uk (home)
|
|
From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2000.06.23 at 23:42:18(4895)
In a message dated Tue, 20 Jun 2000 6:13:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
"Peter Boyce" writes:
>
| +More |
Hello guys,
Back in the 'good old days' of the predecessor of this list on snail mail, I
posted a letter to members pointing out that unlike SOME of the scientists
who name plants in this group of organisms, there were others who did so,
seemingly with a sense of humor, in other groups. Examples given then were
the Trinidadian cave-living lizard Proctoporus shreevii (Shreeves 'anus'),
and a genus of cave-living millipedes, given the name
'Caramba' (Spanish for 'upon my word, or better yet, DAMN!--I am NOT making
this up!!) by the researcher Shear.
The first species he names-- Caramba delburro ('the donkeys damn'), then
came Caramba delnegro (easy on this one!) , then Caramba grandeza (the HUGE
damn!) and finally Caramba enbecausius (because I say DAMN!)
Take heart Pete, with a LITTLE imagination (I can assist with this aspect!)
and some thought to the phallic 'background' to OUR group of plants, the
list of available species epithets is truly mind boggling!
Cheers,
Julius
ju-bo@msn.com
<< Jack
Yes, it is, although are so many new Rhaphs in New Guinea that
I'm running out of specific epithets!
Pete
Guess it's time to start getting creative. (In college, I saw a reference
in one of my textbooks to an insect whose scientific name was Lalapa lusa.)
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large<
|
|
From: Lewandjim at aol.com on 2000.06.25 at 00:13:29(4906)
Sorry this post got away from me prematurely. I should have also included:
In a message dated 06/24/2000 3:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Lewandjim
writes:
| +More |
<< Subj: Re: Rhaphidophora sp. at Fairchild Tropical Garden
Date: 06/24/2000 3:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Lewandjim
To: aroid-l@mobot.org
In a message dated 06/23/2000 7:42:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ju-bo@email.msn.com writes:
<< Take heart Pete, with a LITTLE imagination (I can assist with this
aspect!)
and some thought to the phallic 'background' to OUR group of plants, the
list of available species epithets is truly mind boggling!
>>
Julius,
The taxonomists dealing with live-bearing fishes beat you to the punch! for
example:
Heterophallus
Brachyrhaphis rhabdophora
Phalloceros
Dactylophallus
Priapichthys
Xenophallus
and many more examples less obtusely named!
Jim Langhammer >>
|
|
From: Krzysztof Kozminski kk at kozminski.com> on 2000.06.27 at 01:42:50(4933)
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, Julius Boos wrote:
> Back in the 'good old days' of the predecessor of this list on snail mail, I
> posted a letter to members pointing out that unlike SOME of the scientists
> who name plants in this group of organisms, there were others who did so,
> seemingly with a sense of humor, in other groups. Examples given then were
> the Trinidadian cave-living lizard Proctoporus shreevii (Shreeves 'anus'),
> and a genus of cave-living millipedes, given the name
> 'Caramba' (Spanish for 'upon my word, or better yet, DAMN!--I am NOT making
> this up!!) by the researcher Shear.
> The first species he names-- Caramba delburro ('the donkeys damn'), then
> came Caramba delnegro (easy on this one!) , then Caramba grandeza (the HUGE
> damn!) and finally Caramba enbecausius (because I say DAMN!)
> Take heart Pete, with a LITTLE imagination (I can assist with this aspect!)
> and some thought to the phallic 'background' to OUR group of plants, the
> list of available species epithets is truly mind boggling!
I plugged "lalapa lusa" into google search and it came with a really fun
page with taxonomical jokestry: http://www.best.com/~atta/taxonomy.html.
Some of the ones that caught my atttention:
Eucritta melanolimnetes Clark, 1998 (fossil amphibian) Loosely translates
as "Creature from the black lagoon".
Panama canalia Marsh, 1993 (braconid)
Draculoides bramstokeri Harvey & Humphreys, 1995 (spider)
(too bad that orchid taxonomists did not think about this one - KK)
Trombicula doremi Brennan & Beck, 1955 (chigger)
Trombicula fasola Brennan & Beck, 1955 (chigger)
Agra vation Erwin, 1983 (carabid)
A bunch of bug species named by the same entomologist, Kirkaldy): Ochisme,
Dolichisme, Florichisme, Marichisme, Nanichisme, Peggichisme, Polychisme
(read them out loud = I did not get it until Peggichisme) Kirkaldy was
criticized for frivolity by the London Zoological Society in 1912.
Pison eu Menke, 1988 (sphecid)
Another good page is: http://insects.ucr.edu/staff/yanega.html (click on
"Curious Scientific Names")
| +More |
KK
====================
"Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking"
Krzysztof Kozminski
kk@netgate.net
http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/
|
|
From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2000.07.07 at 23:43:27(5008)
In a message dated 6/24/00 8:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Lewandjim@aol.com writes:
<< The taxonomists dealing with live-bearing fishes beat you to the punch! for
| +More |
example:
Heterophallus
Brachyrhaphis rhabdophora
Phalloceros >>
That is because the live-bearing fishes actually HAVE phalli (at least the
males!), an unusual feature in fish. Your example Phalloceros does indeed
have a horned phallus.
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large
|
|
From: Lewandjim at aol.com on 2000.07.08 at 02:40:12(5015)
In a message dated 07/07/2000 8:07:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
StellrJ@aol.com writes:
<< That is because the live-bearing fishes actually HAVE phalli (at least the
| +More |
males!), an unusual feature in fish. Your example Phalloceros does indeed
have a horned phallus.
Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large >>
Not so unusual as you might think. Even many egg-laying fishes practice
internal fertilization using a number of different intromittent "organs". The
thread of discussion, however, began regarding "risque" names.
Jim Langhammer
|
|
From: Jody Haynes webmaster at plantapalm.com> on 2000.07.08 at 02:41:06(5016)
> << The taxonomists dealing with live-bearing fishes beat you to the
>punch! for
> example:
| +More |
> Heterophallus
> Brachyrhaphis rhabdophora
> Phalloceros >>
>
> That is because the live-bearing fishes actually HAVE phalli (at least the
> males!), an unusual feature in fish. Your example Phalloceros does indeed
> have a horned phallus.
Jason, you are correct in that the males of these species have phallic sexual
organs. The official name of the male "sex" organ of many livebearing fishes
(which is just a modified anal fin) is 'gonopodium'. Oddly enough, my Masters
research was on fishes in the Family Poeciliidae, which includes common
aquarium
fish such as guppies, mollies, swordtails, and platys. Who would have
guessed that
I would be a "plant guy" now? (Certainly not me!)
Jody
|
|
Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.
|
|