Typical seed count of Amorphophallus titanum

From: Jack Honeycutt jhoneycutt at uswest.net> on 2000.07.04 at 04:35:25(4976) The current issue of Hobby Greenhouse Magazine (http://www.orbitworld.net/hga/) has an article called "Famous Blooms Reveal the Fruits of Their Labor". It talks about self pollination of A. titanum at Huntington Botanical Gardens. The article did not say how many seeds were produced from this self pollination. But it did say that two blooms at Shelby (not selfed) produced 220 "bright orange berries" which I assume will produce about 220 or so fertile seeds. When two flowers mature at about the same time in the wild, about how many seeds are produced? +More When one is lucky enough to have two flowers bloom about the same time in a botanical garden, what are typical seed counts? I assume that A. titanum can reproduce by tubers? That is to say, could I divide a plant's tubers and send them to friends so they could start a plant? Generally speaking, about what is the time frame from seed to flower for A. titanum? Would a plant started from seed, flower any sooner than a plant started from a tuber? Thank you for putting up with my many questions. As money permits, I hope to buy more back issues of Aroideana and answer many of the above questions myself. jack in Portland Oregon

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.07.05 at 21:50:30(4984) Huntington did get seed via an unusual self pollination procedure. This may have been the first time this type of process has been successful. I heard that one of the major US news stations picked the story of their seedlings in the last day or so. We did have about 200 or so berries at Selby, but not all the fruits contained seeds. We got about 80 seeds in all. I did not count them all exactly because a few berries were distributed early by other people at Selby and I don't know how many of these contained seeds. Some berries contained two seeds but many contained only one. However, most of the seeds germinated, even the very small ones that I thought might not be viable. Huntington's plant produced an awesome looking infructescence but this was deceiving. I think they only got a few seeds, but I don't know the total number. Many berries formed but most were void since they only pollinated a few of the stigmas. BTW, There is another Amorphophallus titanum preparing to flower at Bonn Botanical Garden. This immense inflorescence may almost reach the proportions of the record setting flower at New York Botanical Garden in 1937. NYBG had the largest documented inflorescence in cultivation. Bonn is predicting their plant will flower around July 10. Check their web site for daily updates (http://www.botanik.uni-bonn.de/botgart/info.htm#aktuell). Most of their information is in german but you will find some english here and the charts and photos will tell the story. Very seldom have seeds been obtained in cultivation. Bonn managed to obtain seeds in 1996, and they reported 450 berries and of these about 70% had two seeds. Leiden obtained a few seeds in 1999 and Palmengarten distributed seed around 1993 or so in their Index Seminum. Two of these plants from the Palmengarten seed flowered last year: one at Univ. of Washington Seattle and the other at Huntington. Pollination has been attempted recently at Cal State Fullerton using pollen stored from the Huntington flowering of 1999. Don't know yet if they have been successful. Don't think its a good idea to "divide" the A. titanum tubers although there are rare times when the tubers may offset in cultivation. The only way to reliably propagate this plant is via seed. Time from seed to flowering varies, usually at least 5-8 years are required under optimal conditions but earlier flowerings have been recorded. Donna Atwood Selby Gardens +More << The current issue of Hobby Greenhouse Magazine (http://www.orbitworld.net/hga/) has an article called "Famous Blooms Reveal the Fruits of Their Labor". It talks about self pollination of A. titanum at Huntington Botanical Gardens. The article did not say how many seeds were produced from this self pollination. But it did say that two blooms at Shelby (not selfed) produced 220 "bright orange berries" which I assume will produce about 220 or so fertile seeds. When two flowers mature at about the same time in the wild, about how many seeds are produced? When one is lucky enough to have two flowers bloom about the same time in a botanical garden, what are typical seed counts? I assume that A. titanum can reproduce by tubers? That is to say, could I divide a plant's tubers and send them to friends so they could start a plant? Generally speaking, about what is the time frame from seed to flower for A. titanum? Would a plant started from seed, flower any sooner than a plant started from a tuber? Thank you for putting up with my many questions. As money permits, I hope to buy more back issues of Aroideana and answer many of the above questions myself. >>

From: "Don Bittel" dbittel at treco.net> on 2000.07.06 at 23:18:14(4987) Great information, Donna! Might you turn this into an article for the newsletter or Aroideana? There are many members who are not on this list, and it would be good to get it published. Also, will there be any seedlings at the IAS auction in Sept? Thanks Don Bittel +More ---------- > From: SelbyHort@aol.com > To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > Subject: Re: Typical seed count of Amorphophallus titanum > Date: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 5:50 PM > > Huntington did get seed via an unusual self pollination procedure. This may > have been the first time this type of process has been successful. I heard > that one of the major US news stations picked the story of their seedlings in > the last day or so. > > We did have about 200 or so berries at Selby, but not all the fruits > contained seeds. We got about 80 seeds in all. I did not count them all > exactly because a few berries were distributed early by other people at Selby > and I don't know how many of these contained seeds. Some berries contained > two seeds but many contained only one. However, most of the seeds germinated, > even the very small ones that I thought might not be viable. > > Huntington's plant produced an awesome looking infructescence but this was > deceiving. I think they only got a few seeds, but I don't know the total > number. Many berries formed but most were void since they only pollinated a > few of the stigmas. > > BTW, There is another Amorphophallus titanum preparing to flower at Bonn > Botanical Garden. This immense inflorescence may almost reach the proportions > of the record setting flower at New York Botanical Garden in 1937. NYBG had > the largest documented inflorescence in cultivation. Bonn is predicting their > plant will flower around July 10. Check their web site for daily updates > (http://www.botanik.uni-bonn.de/botgart/info.htm#aktuell). Most of their > information is in german but you will find some english here and the charts > and photos will tell the story. > > Very seldom have seeds been obtained in cultivation. Bonn managed to obtain > seeds in 1996, and they reported 450 berries and of these about 70% had two > seeds. Leiden obtained a few seeds in 1999 and Palmengarten distributed seed > around 1993 or so in their Index Seminum. Two of these plants from the > Palmengarten seed flowered last year: one at Univ. of Washington Seattle and > the other at Huntington. Pollination has been attempted recently at Cal State > Fullerton using pollen stored from the Huntington flowering of 1999. Don't > know yet if they have been successful. > > Don't think its a good idea to "divide" the A. titanum tubers although there > are rare times when the tubers may offset in cultivation. The only way to > reliably propagate this plant is via seed. Time from seed to flowering > varies, usually at least 5-8 years are required under optimal conditions but > earlier flowerings have been recorded. > > Donna Atwood > Selby Gardens > > << The current issue of Hobby Greenhouse Magazine > (http://www.orbitworld.net/hga/) > has an article called "Famous Blooms Reveal the Fruits of Their Labor". It > talks about self pollination of A. titanum at Huntington Botanical Gardens. > > The article did not say how many seeds were produced from this self > pollination. But it did say that two blooms at Shelby (not selfed) > produced 220 "bright orange berries" which I assume will produce about 220 > or so fertile seeds. > > When two flowers mature at about the same time in the wild, about how many > seeds are produced? > > When one is lucky enough to have two flowers bloom about the same time in a > botanical garden, what are typical seed counts? > > I assume that A. titanum can reproduce by tubers? That is to say, could I > divide a plant's tubers and send them to friends so they could start a plant? > > Generally speaking, about what is the time frame from seed to flower for A. > titanum? Would a plant started from seed, flower any sooner than a plant > started from a tuber? > > Thank you for putting up with my many questions. As money permits, I hope > to buy more back issues of Aroideana and answer many of the above questions > myself. > >> > >

From: Jack Honeycutt jhoneycutt at uswest.net> on 2000.07.06 at 23:20:08(4989) At 04:50 PM 7/5/2000 -0500, Donna wrote: >Huntington did get seed via an unusual self pollination procedure. From what little I could gather from the greenhouse magazine, self pollination methods have not worked very well in the past? >We did have about 200 or so berries at Selby, but not all the fruits >contained seeds. We got about 80 seeds in all. Some berries contained >two seeds but many contained only one. However, most of the seeds germinated, >even the very small ones that I thought might not be viable. And this was from a hand pollination method? You took pollen from one flower and placed it on the flower of the other plant? >Very seldom have seeds been obtained in cultivation. >Pollination has been attempted recently at Cal State >Fullerton using pollen stored from the Huntington flowering of 1999. Don't >know yet if they have been successful. So, mostly, folks don't store pollen in the 'frig and pollinate a flower a few months or years later? When I played with Victoria waterlilies, I was told that about 72 hours was the limit for stored pollen. I was able to push that out to about two weeks. But my dream of storing pollen in the frig all winter and having viable pollen in the spring never happened. None of the flowers took this old pollen. I kept thinking that I needed that magic temperature to store pollen, but I never found it. About the time I moved on to something else, I read about storing seeds in liquid nitrogen. I wondered about long term storage of pollen this way...... >Don't think its a good idea to "divide" the A. titanum tubers although there >are rare times when the tubers may offset in cultivation. OK. Good information. Can you force tubers to offset by growing them in a small pot and over feeding the plant? >The only way to >reliably propagate this plant is via seed. OK. Got it. +More Thanks for all the good information Donna. jack in Portland Oregon

From: Neil Carroll zzamia at hargray.com> on 2000.07.07 at 02:38:38(4995) Folks, I have just about got the Newsletter back together after my computer disaster. I hope to have it in the mail to within a few days. This issue will be Vol. 22, no. 2, and is past due. To stay on time I will need to publish again before the Show in Sept. HELP!! Send articles. Any particular subject is fine. Wouldn't be nice to hear from some of you who have been so active lately on Aroid-L? There has been some very fine and interesting material sent about here (the Rhaph. thead for example). We have been lucky the past 10 months to receive material of a good grade. I hope to continue to receive material from the likes of this list (including the listeners) and beyond. In the last Newsletter and in this one coming up, we had contributions from non-members. (Thank you!) Comments, suggestions, ARTICLES all appreciated. Suggestions: Species profiles Genera outlines Hybrids and Hybridizing Horticultural Techniques Aroid Adventures Aroid literature Announcements & Reviews Events Spread the word. Neil Carroll +More zzamia@hargray.com PO Box 1626 Bluffton, SC 29910 843-757-4962 Do I have to name , names?

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.07.07 at 04:22:54(4999) This is to answer Jack's questions about pollinating Amorphophallus titanum. Probably some of this is repeated information so those who have heard already, please forgive me saying this again. A. titanum can't really be self pollinated without employing some unusual treatments. Self-pollination does not occur in the wild. Huntington removed immature pollen. They then tried various means to ripen it to pollinate their plant. You can check out their web site for more details. There is a link on the IAS web "Links" page for Huntington. A similar technique was also attempted at Longwood Gardens back in 1961. They only got 2 immature seeds because their infructescence rotted before the seed matured. Also I believe that a self-pollination technique may have been attemtped even earlier at Bonn back in 1937. I am not fluent enough to read all the german on their web site, but I think this is mentioned in the text there (sure would be nice if someone could translate this). Yes, we had two inflorescences at Selby last year and they bloomed only four days apart. We collected pollen from the first plant and stored it just in a brown paper bag at air conditioned room temperature, then applied the pollen to the second inflor. The females are receptive before the male flowers shed pollen, so this is procedure for traditional hand pollination. First you must obtain the pollen, then you need another inflor that is blooming at least a day or two later so you can pollinate at just the right time when stigmas are ready. +More I don't know how long polllen can be stored, but I think some has been frozen for about three weeks and used at Bonn for their 1996 seeds. Some pollen was deep frozen, some frozen in a regular refirgerator, some just refrigerated and other pollen was left at room temperature and dry. They also got some fresh pollen from another plant at Palmengarten that happened to be flowering about the same time. Bonn reported no relation to pollen origin and germination. So I guess it is possible to store pollen at least for short periods of time. I have no idea what is the maximum time one can store this pollen. It will be interesting to see if Fullerton's plant will produce seeds from Huntington's frozen pollen (stored for almost one year). Maybe others who have tried this will comment. There really haven't been that many Amorph. titanum in cultivation until recently. Now that we seem to have lots of these plants around people feel more free to experiment with different pollination or propagation techniques. There is still much to learn. Bjoern Malkmus mentioned a "torture" method for obtaining A. titanum offsets. Craig Allen at Fairchild has also documented tuber offsets in plants that are underpotted. These techniques may not guarantee success but it is certainly worth a try if you have plants to spare and don't have to fret about losing your only one! Perhaps there are other interesting stories out there we have not heard yet. Donna Atwood << >Huntington did get seed via an unusual self pollination procedure. From what little I could gather from the greenhouse magazine, self pollination methods have not worked very well in the past? >We did have about 200 or so berries at Selby, but not all the fruits >contained seeds. We got about 80 seeds in all. Some berries contained >two seeds but many contained only one. However, most of the seeds germinated, >even the very small ones that I thought might not be viable. And this was from a hand pollination method? You took pollen from one flower and placed it on the flower of the other plant? >Very seldom have seeds been obtained in cultivation. >Pollination has been attempted recently at Cal State >Fullerton using pollen stored from the Huntington flowering of 1999. Don't >know yet if they have been successful. So, mostly, folks don't store pollen in the 'frig and pollinate a flower a few months or years later? When I played with Victoria waterlilies, I was told that about 72 hours was the limit for stored pollen. I was able to push that out to about two weeks. But my dream of storing pollen in the frig all winter and having viable pollen in the spring never happened. None of the flowers took this old pollen. I kept thinking that I needed that magic temperature to store pollen, but I never found it. About the time I moved on to something else, I read about storing seeds in liquid nitrogen. I wondered about long term storage of pollen this way...... >Don't think its a good idea to "divide" the A. titanum tubers although there >are rare times when the tubers may offset in cultivation. OK. Good information. Can you force tubers to offset by growing them in a small pot and over feeding the plant? >The only way to >reliably propagate this plant is via seed. OK. Got it. >>

From: SelbyHort at aol.com on 2000.07.07 at 04:24:27(5000) Thanks Don, and perhaps it would be nice to collaborate on a paper with someone. There has been a lot of experimentation going on and it would be good to put it all in one paper for future reference. Don't know about any Selby titanum seedlings for the auction. There are still recipients waiting for their seedlings and I think all the remaining plants are reserved for them. Will just have to see what happens. Donna +More << Great information, Donna! Might you turn this into an article for the newsletter or Aroideana? There are many members who are not on this list, and it would be good to get it published. Also, will there be any seedlings at the IAS auction in Sept? >>

From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2000.07.07 at 23:51:30(5012) << Comments, suggestions, ARTICLES all appreciated. Suggestions: Species profiles +More >> What is meant by a species profile? I have some phenological notes on Orontium aquaticum in the wild, and photos, but they cover only four months. Also, I have some old notes re: Xanthosoma, but they focused more on counting the insects inside the spathes, and may not be of sufficient interest for the Newsletter. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: Jack Honeycutt jhoneycutt at uswest.net> on 2000.07.09 at 16:03:21(5030) At 11:24 PM 7/6/2000 -0500, Donna wrote: >This is to answer Jack's questions about pollinating Amorphophallus titanum. >Probably some of this is repeated information so those who have heard >already, please forgive me saying this again. Thanks for all the good information Dona. I hope I can corner someone at the Aroid meeting at Fairchild and learn more. I wish flowers were more abundant so I could watch the pollination technique of you folks. jack in Oregon

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