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  Amorpho titanum crosses!!!
From: Piabinha at aol.com on 2001.06.20 at 12:51:25(6771)
how bout crossing it so that you get the long neck of gigas, the sheer size of titanum, and the strange colors and shape of paeoniifolius.

In a message dated Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:18:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Wilbert Hetterscheid" writes:

<< Fainted does not even BEGIN to describe the sheer horror..........

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2001.06.20 at 20:25:52(6779)
Dear friends,

Why do you cross it with other Amorphs? What about Lemna? It is an aroid
too and it is closely related. I am only affraid it will not float so
freely! (Don't tell me about stinking pounds...)

Best wishes,


From: "Cooper, Susan L." SLCooper at scj.com> on 2001.06.21 at 09:01:55(6786)
< I am only affraid it will not float so

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 09:02:23(6788)
And if anyone even TRIES to get a Nightmare Aroid to miscagenate with my
beloved Peace Liles then the word rabid will get an entirely new meaning.
Jay put it so so well, so rightly. Secure definitive SPECIES with
definitive origins and collecting data by adequate propagation before you
even consider your grotesque "Island of Dr. Moreau" experiments! Yes, to
me, the best hybrids of Spathiphyllum ARE wonderful, but I would give up ALL
aroids if I could not grow the original parent species. More & more, it
seems to me that in future, hybrids need to be of very definitive pedigree.
Not content with haphazard hybridising from undocumented parentages, Spath
cultivars are more and more given fancy names different from original.
Maybe DNA analysis in a hundred years will sort out the mess. Eduardo, if
an Amorpho copulates with a Lemna, we must sink, sink, sink and drown the
bloody thing else the putrid thing will cover us all. Help to conserve &
propagate WILD scarce material first then play with it long enough in
private before you start your decadent miscagenations. Three cheers for the
Dons Julius & Wilbert. And that from a misbegotten who don't like
Amorphos! No wonder Botanic Gardens are so cautious! I wouldn't allow
custody of any the young plants here if I thought they would end up in

Ferociously like a hybrid turbo-ed Piranha


From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 09:02:39(6789)
Brian & Geoff!

Nothing personal but I weep for the fate of those who ended up in the Sri
Lankan plant vice distribution centre in Tooting.

Geoff, your species is now re-habilitated and I hope the species, mutations
and cultivars are likewise.

Benignly, I like a serious pillow fight


From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.21 at 09:02:53(6790)
How about I ask the moderators to end your subscription.........

Lord P., in defense of pure-bred Amorphs!!!!!

----- Original Message -----

From: GeoffAroid at aol.com on 2001.06.21 at 13:10:41(6802)

I am sure the Sri Lankan greengrocers in Tooting must think I obtain some
strange illicit drugs from the amorph tubers, or that I eat vast quantities
of the curries in which they put them! They have probably sold more in the
last month or two than the previous year (two other growers have now asked me
to get them some too...).

I agree with most of the comments on hybrids given here, the majority do not
improve on nature, although I suspect most of us are only too happy to grow
various hybrid garden plants without giving it a second thought. It is a
fairly natural thing for man to pick the biggest, the darkest, the largest,
the best scented flowers etc etc and its only a short step from there to
selectively crossing. I think the orchid people have it right, at least they
register everything and one can look up parentage very easily. All these
cultivar names which mean nothing (what IS Anthurium Jungle King?!, or
Spathiphyllum Sensation?!) because they wont tell you or dont know the
parentage are not helping anyone. Yes, we absolutely must conserve and
disseminate species as much as possible to ensure their survival in
collections (is it too pessimistic to feel that their habitats just will not
survive?) and for future generations to admire their stunning beauty. I am
not against hybrids per se as long as the species are cared for, and the
hybrids well documented. A giant konjac-titanum in the backyard may be
unlikely but it would certainly get noticed.....

Just wait till they use gene surgery to join a Spathiphyllum with
Amorphophallus, Spathiphyllum "Dracula's Delight" anyone...?

Geoffrey Kibby

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 20:19:08(6822)
Geoff & other Friends!

Night starvation, so intermittent contributions to Aroid L have been b/w!
Sorry! Man vs. Nature. Hybrids vs. Species. This is a MAJOR issue and
needs mighty informed dialogue even to begin. As you say the Orchid people
have got it right with obligatory & inalienable hybrid registration which be
the same for all aroids. They are helped by all species coming under CITES
jurisdiction. Therefore the species are "desirable", therefore merit
salvation by profitable propagation "controls".

Its just ought to be Man for Nature, not Nature for Man. But carry on
regardless looking both ways with ostrich head in sand hoping everything
will be alright and this conversation will be as academic as the wild
species are in ten years or less. But we'll still have our far more
desirable misbegotten hybrids with meaningless fancy names then won't we?
Neros fiddling whilst everything burns again? All I can say is that this
"anthropocentric" approach just ain't right for Earth Custodians in the 21st
Century. If you don't mind I'll take a little time out from mind dancing,
to fill heart, sharpen claws and load blunderbuss.

If you got News(1), any significant News(2) contributions chaps &


From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.06.21 at 22:21:53(6824)
What is the current status of somatic cell fusion hybridization and
regeneration by tissue culture in aroids?
Bonaventure Magrys - Gene Jockey

GeoffAroid@aol.com@mobot.org on 06/21/2001 04:10:46 PM

Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org

Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.06.21 at 22:23:38(6826)
Lord P! (Do you really have that power?)
Please accept my apologies if I offend you. I promise to keep my dirty
hybridizer fingers away from your virginal stands of Amorphophallus's.
Future generations of cultivated Amorpho titanum will mature faster, grow
more quickly and more evenly, and be more amenable to artificial cultural
conditions and less specialized to a narrow ecological niche than wild ones
just because of artificial selection. The ones that bloom first and get
their seeds distributed among aficionados may not resemble ones that bide
their time and bloom at a larger size. Indeed, after several generations of
this we may have titanum seed to flowering time significantly reduced by
this process of selection.
If it really bothers you, don't open my messages.
BTW nice tubers you sent me. They're sprouting. I promise I won't mess with
your children.

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.22 at 09:01:22(6831)
You mean hybridisation by experts?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would be
good...Should the third word in the original title be left off? Get back
into your bunker.

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.22 at 09:07:27(6837)
Anthurium Jungle King is not even a cultivar name, it is a trade designation
of Anthurium ellipticum 'Antadalo'. But leaving that aside, I see that some
of you don't realise that a clonally propagaged narrow aspect of the
variation of a species IS a proper cultivar! It has always been like that:
you can also pick a nice white coloured variant from an otherwise red
flowering species in nature, propagate it clonally, see to it that it
follows the DUS norm (Distinction, Uniformity and Stability) and there you
have a perfect cultivar. The point is that in your mind you'd have to cross
the (grey) barrier between nature and society as soon as you pick a plant
from the wild and deliberately it under artificial circumstances in order to
stabilise some or all of its characters.


From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.22 at 22:15:00(6843)
> Eh?
> Lord P! (Do you really have that power?)

From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2001.06.22 at 22:16:47(6850)
OOps! Hit the wrong button, sent a "reply" without writing anything!

In a message dated Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:02:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Cooper, Susan L." writes:


Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.