HID Lights

From: "Cooper, Susan L." SLCooper at scj.com> on 2002.10.11 at 16:15:17(9519) Good work on the FAQ, Randy! I confess the HID lights threw me for a bit- until Aha! High Intensity Discharge Lights. Thank heavens for the internet. I've seen these in greenhouses (UW-Madison Botanical Dept). But does anyone use them for home use? And what sort, etc? There are many different types, and not as expensive as I thought.... I think I just thought of what I want for Christmas! Susan

From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.11 at 16:27:38(9520) Hi Susan, I don't know if this still is the case, but I understand that a few years ago, at least, buying the lights put one at risk for a visit by the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency). It seems that the lights are favored by those who grow marijuana inside. I don't use the lights myself. Randy +More ---------- >From: "Cooper, Susan L." >To: "AROID-L (E-mail)" >Subject: [aroid-l] HID Lights >Date: Fri, Oct 11, 2002, 9:15 AM > > Good work on the FAQ, Randy! > I confess the HID lights threw me for a bit- until Aha! High Intensity > Discharge Lights. Thank heavens for the internet. > I've seen these in greenhouses (UW-Madison Botanical Dept). But does anyone > use them for home use? And what sort, etc? > There are many different types, and not as expensive as I thought.... I > think I just thought of what I want for Christmas! > > Susan >

From: Riley2362 at aol.com on 2002.10.11 at 20:44:22(9524) Hi Susan and All, HID lights for indoor growers have opened a whole new world of growing. I used to only grow under fluorescents, and small plants because the efficacy of the light diminishes radically after about 2 feet and MANY Aroids are considerably larger than that and require higher light intensities that one could ever obtain from any number of fluorescent tubes. Notably Anthuriums, Amorphophallus and many orchids require those high light intensities. Charlies Greenhouse http://www.charliesgreenhouse.com/ on the West Coast carries many different light setups but I ended up buying mine from a slightly more local source in the East at http://www.thegrowroom.com/ My fixture is 1000 watt total, with a 400 and 600 watt bulb, one is sodium and the other metal halide - I forget which is which. The bulbs burn very hot so you need good ventilation but the plant growth is amazing. Of course then you need more space, then you need more plants - it goes with the territory. +More Cheers - Michael Riley in NYC

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.12 at 01:45:53(9528) I don't know if this still is the case, but I understand that a few years ago, at least, buying the lights put one at risk for a visit by the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency). It seems that the lights are favored by those who grow marijuana inside. I don't use the lights myself. I understand such lights and others are used even in southern CA to grow it indoors like in garages, because it is visible outdoors and has an infra red signature. copters fly overhead and do target nurseries. take night photos and so forth. a form of it grows wild as an introduced plant, not the good kind for smoking, one is i Cannabis indica, the other C. sativa...and i occasionally get it as a weed when i get topsoil or horse manure. This copter overhead photography,i regard as unconstitutional search, and i am a non drug user, who takes aspirin only after careful, long, protracted consideration. I have used these and other lights with great satisfaction to grow just about everything i have ever grown. i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs. So let them come and look for my stash. eh! lights make it possible to grow things you could not otherwise grow. hermine +More --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/03/2002

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.12 at 01:57:31(9529) At 04:44 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Riley2362@aol.com wrote: Hi Susan and All, HID lights for indoor growers have opened a whole new world of growing. I used to only grow under fluorescents, and small plants because the efficacy of the light diminishes radically after about 2 feet i was somehow able to grow Haworthias and other succulents of South Africa by placing them two inches from the fluorescents, but it did not make for good display, just for great plants! there are other colour corrected mercury vapour and incandescent lights combined in one---- and every month, new kinds of agricultural lights appear in the commercial catalogues.but it is true to grow larger plants which need lots of light, fluorescents, unless they are in banks, about 1/2 inch apart, as in a growth chamber, do not do it. i grew Cycads under artificial light at one time. but not under fluorescents. and these lights are also used in Alaskan greenhouses to prolong day length for things like tomatoes, so not everyone who buys them is a drug fiend. the ballasts give off heat, which is also a plus in Alaska. I would think modern drug fiends are taking CHEMICAL DRUGS and not stuff like boo! (pot, in brooklyn, circa 1965). hermine +More --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/03/2002

From: "Albert Huntington" amh at ieee.org> on 2002.10.12 at 04:58:58(9530) Folks, The HID lights in question ( at least the metal halide ones ) are also used by the reef aquarium hobby. They provide a lot of lumens per watt of energy put in, and seem to be available in spectra that plants ( and corals ) appreciate. I have had a 400 watt unit in operation over my reef tank for quite a while and have not been visited by the DEA ( you would think that massive potting soil purchases, huge electricity and gas bill, and heated greenhouses would have garnered a little more attention... ) +More If you're considering getting one, you might also want to consider the resultant increase in your electric bill. 400 watts is basically ten flourescent lights crammed into about 1/60th the space. It gets hot and it eats a lot of energy. Running one for 10 hours a day is 300 hours a month, or about 120 kilowatt hours. I pay around 25 cents for each kwh, which adds $30 to my electric bill each month. A 1000 watt setup would add $75 to my bill - and that's the reason why I don't keep more high light plants inside. Search the web for hydroponics stores and reef aquarium suppliers, and you're sure to find a plethora of the devices for sale ... Best regards, --Albert ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net

From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2002.10.12 at 15:44:42(9532) In a message dated 10/11/2002 10:35:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, hermine@endangeredspecies.com writes: > i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs. +More > I have often wondered -- would they know a Dizygotheca elegantissima if they saw one? It's a nice-looking plant, but I hesitate to grow one given the so-called "war on drugs." Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: David Thornton dave at dave-aroid.demon.co.uk> on 2002.10.12 at 22:37:48(9534) In message <200210111630.g9BGU0ne019325@chamber.cco.caltech.edu>, Randy I operate three to four 400 watt metal halide and sodium lights in various situations. I have never been visited by the law in the U.K. I find them very good for most plants and the heat and consequent water evapouration are very good for heat and humidity. Plants that have grown a little in the G/House during summer, spurt in to hectic growth in the autumn when brought under the lights. David +More Story writes >Hi Susan, > >I don't know if this still is the case, but I understand that a few years >ago, at least, buying the lights put one at risk for a visit by the DEA >(Drug Enforcement Agency). It seems that the lights are favored by those >who grow marijuana inside. > >I don't use the lights myself. > >Randy > >---------- >>From: "Cooper, Susan L." >>To: "AROID-L (E-mail)" >>Subject: [aroid-l] HID Lights >>Date: Fri, Oct 11, 2002, 9:15 AM >> > >> Good work on the FAQ, Randy! >> I confess the HID lights threw me for a bit- until Aha! High Intensity >> Discharge Lights. Thank heavens for the internet. >> I've seen these in greenhouses (UW-Madison Botanical Dept). But does anyone >> use them for home use? And what sort, etc? >> There are many different types, and not as expensive as I thought.... I >> think I just thought of what I want for Christmas! >> >> Susan >> -- David Thornton Manchester (u.k) zone 8b Homepage http://www.dave-aroid.demon.co.uk

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.13 at 05:29:00(9535) > I have often wondered -- would they know a Dizygotheca elegantissima if they saw one? It's a nice-looking plant, but I hesitate to grow one given the so-called "war on drugs." Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large well, i have Hibiscus cannabifolia and nobody has batted an eye at it. they seem to know DOPE in the cultivated form, and do not know enough about plants to make a mistake. which is to say, they know what they know. they even know the difference between cultivated and wild. cultivated is pinched back to make many flower heads, which makes the foliage tufted. whereas the wild plant is all stretched out and rangy, Still, i think they have to really IDENTIFY the stuff and if you say it is Dizygotheca elegantissima, and bring your Exotica to them, and shrug calmly and caution them not to smoke any, i think you are home free. i do not believe the growing of plants which resemble marijuana is forbidden. it was grown locally to make rope during WW2. perhaps i mentioned that. so it grows wild, along with Daturas which are very potent, we have some Datura overdose kids every year. herm +More --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002

From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.13 at 05:55:02(9536) Jason, There was actually a story in the L.A. Times a year or two ago about a woman who was arrested when the police saw her Dizygotheca, aka "False Aralia" plant and thought it was marijuana. It seems they were investigating some minor complaint, but when they saw the plant they brought her in. They quickly let her go when they figured out their mistake. However, when she later applied for her green card, they asked on one of the forms if she had ever been arrested. She said no, since the plant incident was obviously a dumb mistake. However, when the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service for non-Americans) found out that she "lied" on her application form, they deported her. This was an article in a Times article about how the INS has basically unlimited powers to deport non-citizens. My mom has had this plant outside her front door for probably 20 years now. She occasionally gets an interesting reaction. Randy +More ---------- >From: MossyTrail@cs.com >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] HID Lights >Date: Sat, Oct 12, 2002, 8:44 AM > > In a message dated 10/11/2002 10:35:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > hermine@endangeredspecies.com writes: > > >> i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs. >> > I have often wondered -- would they know a Dizygotheca elegantissima if they > saw one? It's a nice-looking plant, but I hesitate to grow one given the > so-called "war on drugs." > > Jason Hernandez > Naturalist-at-Large >

From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2002.10.13 at 16:32:37(9537) In a message dated 10/13/2002 8:49:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, story@caltech.edu writes: > However, when the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service +More > for non-Americans) found out that she "lied" on her application form, they > deported her. This was an article in a Times article about how the INS has > basically unlimited powers to deport non-citizens. > Except for the deportation bit, that's not much different from the Navy. They ask you a dozen different ways if you've ever done drugs. If you have, tell them so -- they won't hold your past against you unless you lie about it, but if you DO lie about it, and they find out, big trouble. Re: mistaken plant identity -- I have a pressed leaf of Acer palmatum dissectum which has gotten me "knowing" winks from some people. Sillier, though, is when I get that reaction to a pressed Liquidambar styraciflua leaf. I can also get a reaction by showing people (who have not been to the tropics) a photo of a field of cassava. Now how can we get this tangent back to aroids? Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.14 at 01:58:17(9539) Hermine, At least some things are indeed unconstitutional--I forgot about this one! The Supreme Court ruled last year in Kyllo vs. United States that it is illegal to use a thermal imaging device to look inside one's home for signs of HID lights. In the case in question, Kyllo was growing marijuana inside and DEA agents used the thermal imaging results to obtain a search warrant. A divided court ruled that it was an unlawful search and the 5-4 split represented one of the more unusual combinations of justices. See http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case= /us/000/99%2D8508.html Randy +More > I understand such lights and others are used even in southern CA to grow it > indoors like in garages, because it is visible outdoors and has an infra > red signature. copters fly overhead and do target nurseries. take night > photos and so forth. a form of it grows wild as an introduced plant, not > the good kind for smoking, one is i Cannabis indica, the other C. > sativa...and i occasionally get it as a weed when i get topsoil or horse > manure. This copter overhead photography,i regard as unconstitutional > search, and i am a non drug user, who takes aspirin only after careful, > long, protracted consideration. > I have used these and other lights with great satisfaction to grow just > about everything i have ever grown. i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs. > > So let them come and look for my stash. eh! > > lights make it possible to grow things you could not otherwise grow. > > hermine > > >

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