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  HID Lights
From: "Cooper, Susan L." SLCooper at scj.com> on 2002.10.11 at 09:15:17(9519)
Good work on the FAQ, Randy!
I confess the HID lights threw me for a bit- until Aha! High Intensity
Discharge Lights. Thank heavens for the internet.
I've seen these in greenhouses (UW-Madison Botanical Dept). But does anyone
use them for home use? And what sort, etc?
There are many different types, and not as expensive as I thought.... I
think I just thought of what I want for Christmas!

Susan

From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.11 at 09:27:38(9520)
Hi Susan,

I don't know if this still is the case, but I understand that a few years
ago, at least, buying the lights put one at risk for a visit by the DEA
(Drug Enforcement Agency). It seems that the lights are favored by those
who grow marijuana inside.

I don't use the lights myself.

Randy

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From: Riley2362 at aol.com on 2002.10.11 at 13:44:22(9524)
Hi Susan and All,
HID lights for indoor growers have opened a whole new world of growing. I
used to only grow under fluorescents, and small plants because the efficacy
of the light diminishes radically after about 2 feet and MANY Aroids are
considerably larger than that and require higher light intensities that one
could ever obtain from any number of fluorescent tubes. Notably Anthuriums,
Amorphophallus and many orchids require those high light intensities.
Charlies Greenhouse http://www.charliesgreenhouse.com/ on the West Coast
carries many different light setups but I ended up buying mine from a
slightly more local source in the East at http://www.thegrowroom.com/
My fixture is 1000 watt total, with a 400 and 600 watt bulb, one is sodium
and the other metal halide - I forget which is which. The bulbs burn very
hot so you need good ventilation but the plant growth is amazing. Of course
then you need more space, then you need more plants - it goes with the
territory.
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From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.11 at 18:45:53(9528)
I don't know if this still is the case, but I understand that a few years
ago, at least, buying the lights put one at risk for a visit by the DEA
(Drug Enforcement Agency). It seems that the lights are favored by those
who grow marijuana inside.

I don't use the lights myself.

I understand such lights and others are used even in southern CA to grow it
indoors like in garages, because it is visible outdoors and has an infra
red signature. copters fly overhead and do target nurseries. take night
photos and so forth. a form of it grows wild as an introduced plant, not
the good kind for smoking, one is i Cannabis indica, the other C.
sativa...and i occasionally get it as a weed when i get topsoil or horse
manure. This copter overhead photography,i regard as unconstitutional
search, and i am a non drug user, who takes aspirin only after careful,
long, protracted consideration.
I have used these and other lights with great satisfaction to grow just
about everything i have ever grown. i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs.

So let them come and look for my stash. eh!

lights make it possible to grow things you could not otherwise grow.

hermine

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From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.11 at 18:57:31(9529)
At 04:44 PM 10/11/2002 -0400, Riley2362@aol.com wrote:

Hi Susan and All,
HID lights for indoor growers have opened a whole new world of growing. I
used to only grow under fluorescents, and small plants because the efficacy
of the light diminishes radically after about 2 feet

i was somehow able to grow Haworthias and other succulents of South Africa
by placing them two inches from the fluorescents, but it did not make for
good display, just for great plants!

there are other colour corrected mercury vapour and incandescent lights
combined in one---- and every month, new kinds of agricultural lights
appear in the commercial catalogues.but it is true to grow larger plants
which need lots of light, fluorescents, unless they are in banks, about 1/2
inch apart, as in a growth chamber, do not do it. i grew Cycads under
artificial light at one time. but not under fluorescents.

and these lights are also used in Alaskan greenhouses to prolong day length
for things like tomatoes, so not everyone who buys them is a drug
fiend. the ballasts give off heat, which is also a plus in Alaska.

I would think modern drug fiends are taking CHEMICAL DRUGS and not stuff
like boo! (pot, in brooklyn, circa 1965).

hermine

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From: "Albert Huntington" amh at ieee.org> on 2002.10.11 at 21:58:58(9530)
Folks,

The HID lights in question ( at least the metal halide ones )
are also used by the reef aquarium hobby. They provide a lot of
lumens per watt of energy put in, and seem to be available in
spectra that plants ( and corals ) appreciate.

I have had a 400 watt unit in operation over my reef tank for
quite a while and have not been visited by the DEA ( you would
think that massive potting soil purchases, huge electricity and
gas bill, and heated greenhouses would have garnered a little more
attention... )

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From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2002.10.12 at 08:44:42(9532)
In a message dated 10/11/2002 10:35:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hermine@endangeredspecies.com writes:

> i SNEEZE with contempt at the Drug Pigs.

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From: David Thornton dave at dave-aroid.demon.co.uk> on 2002.10.12 at 15:37:48(9534)
In message <200210111630.g9BGU0ne019325@chamber.cco.caltech.edu>, Randy

I operate three to four 400 watt metal halide and sodium lights in
various situations. I have never been visited by the law in the U.K.
I find them very good for most plants and the heat and consequent water
evapouration are very good for heat and humidity.
Plants that have grown a little in the G/House during summer, spurt in
to hectic growth in the autumn when brought under the lights.

David

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From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.10.12 at 22:29:00(9535)
>
I have often wondered -- would they know a Dizygotheca elegantissima if they
saw one? It's a nice-looking plant, but I hesitate to grow one given the
so-called "war on drugs."

Jason Hernandez
Naturalist-at-Large

well, i have Hibiscus cannabifolia and nobody has batted an eye at it. they
seem to know DOPE in the cultivated form, and do not know enough about
plants to make a mistake. which is to say, they know what they know. they
even know the difference between cultivated and wild. cultivated is pinched
back to make many flower heads, which makes the foliage tufted. whereas the
wild plant is all stretched out and rangy, Still, i think they have to
really IDENTIFY the stuff and if you say it is Dizygotheca
elegantissima, and bring your Exotica to them, and shrug calmly and
caution them not to smoke any, i think you are home free. i do not believe
the growing of plants which resemble marijuana is forbidden. it was grown
locally to make rope during WW2. perhaps i mentioned that. so it grows
wild, along with Daturas which are very potent, we have some Datura
overdose kids every year.

herm

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From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.12 at 22:55:02(9536)
Jason,

There was actually a story in the L.A. Times a year or two ago about a woman
who was arrested when the police saw her Dizygotheca, aka "False Aralia"
plant and thought it was marijuana. It seems they were investigating some
minor complaint, but when they saw the plant they brought her in. They
quickly let her go when they figured out their mistake. However, when she
later applied for her green card, they asked on one of the forms if she had
ever been arrested. She said no, since the plant incident was obviously a
dumb mistake. However, when the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service
for non-Americans) found out that she "lied" on her application form, they
deported her. This was an article in a Times article about how the INS has
basically unlimited powers to deport non-citizens.

My mom has had this plant outside her front door for probably 20 years now.
She occasionally gets an interesting reaction.

Randy

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From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2002.10.13 at 09:32:37(9537)
In a message dated 10/13/2002 8:49:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
story@caltech.edu writes:

> However, when the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service

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From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.10.13 at 18:58:17(9539)
Hermine,

At least some things are indeed unconstitutional--I forgot about this one!
The Supreme Court ruled last year in Kyllo vs. United States that it is
illegal to use a thermal imaging device to look inside one's home for signs
of HID lights. In the case in question, Kyllo was growing marijuana inside
and DEA agents used the thermal imaging results to obtain a search warrant.
A divided court ruled that it was an unlawful search and the 5-4 split
represented one of the more unusual combinations of justices. See
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&court=US&case=
/us/000/99%2D8508.html

Randy

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