Hope Thursday went Ok

From: LMassey628 at aol.com on 2002.12.15 at 01:06:38(9724) In a message dated 12/14/02 7:31:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, sauromaton@yahoo.co.uk writes: > Hi, +More > I had my fingers crossed for you hope everything went OK. Please let > us know. > David > Hi David The Florida taliban is fining me $50.00 a day. Linda

From: Valerie Gillman hortma at yahoo.com> on 2002.12.15 at 06:27:48(9726) Linda, what exactly is the charge? Growing a stinky plant? It doesn't seem possible. Do you have to get rid of it or your whole garden? Val-MI. The Florida taliban is fining me $50.00 a day. +More Linda --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

From: Harry Witmore harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2002.12.15 at 13:02:27(9729) Well I know it would be time for me to get a lawyer or find a new place to live. It's amazing to me how ignorant people are. I am constantly irritated by people telling stories about how afraid of snakes they are and they kill everyone they see. I then go into my story about a horse wondering into my yard and having to go get the hoe and cut his head off because you know I am soo afraid of them. You can imagine the look I get. I then look at them the same way. Linda I wish I could help and if there is anything I can do please let me know. Your fight is for sanity. +More At 08:06 PM 12/14/02 -0500, you wrote: In a message dated 12/14/02 7:31:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, sauromaton@yahoo.co.uk writes: > Hi, > I had my fingers crossed for you hope everything went OK. Please let > us know. > David > Hi David The Florida taliban is fining me $50.00 a day. Linda Harry Witmore Zone 7 NC Cloud Jungle Art Epiphytes.Org Cloud Jungle ePiphytes

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.12.15 at 17:18:32(9731) At 09:29 AM 12/15/2002 -0500, Ron wrote: Linda, Why don't you get a letter from Fairchild Gardens discribing the plant Genus and its rarety. Ron I wonder if there is local "LAW" preventing you from owning an American Pit Bull Terrier, or any breed presumed to be one. (MIAMI-DADE for example). hermine +More frothing at the mouth

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.12.15 at 17:19:12(9732) The Florida taliban is fining me $50.00 a day. Linda THEY WOULD HAVE TO KILL ME. +More hermine

From: "N Carroll" ncarz at charter.net> on 2002.12.15 at 17:51:00(9733) Linda, I have been reading this thread with amazement. I may have missed something but WHO exactly is fining you here? The city government? Have you been told exactly who your accuser is? (if not it must be a local coommunity assosiation or something) a local community regime? What is the wording of the law that has been. What exactly is their proof that this is even your plant? This all seems to be so incredible and absolutly unacceptable. +More How do we contact these people? An email campaign might be in order. Lawyers (too expensive) and finding a new place to live don't seem to be feasible answers. Neil

From: LMassey628 at aol.com on 2002.12.15 at 18:26:30(9734) In a message dated 12/15/02 11:52:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, hortma@yahoo.com writes: > Linda, what exactly is the charge? Growing a stinky plant? It doesn't seem +More > possible. Do you have to get rid of it or your whole garden? > Val-MI. > Hi Val Not just one Amorphophallus, that one just happened to be mentioned. They object to the variety of plants in my garden. I have mixed beds of many types of plants, a hibiscus next to a Brunfelsia next to a Colocasia, next to a Sansieveria next to a heliconia next to a Costus. They are all trimmed back behind a white brick edging. From the street some ignorant people don't know what they are looking at so they just interpret the mixed plants as weeds or a "jungle". If I were growing 20 feet of ixora or plumbago they would calm down because they recognize those plants, but I like a mixed garden. My point is that as long as everything is trimmed back I have a right to grow as many varieties as I like, and my choices can't be held back by the most ignorant people in the neighborhood. My nearest neighbors agree with me. I can send anyone a photo of my garden out front that they want me to destroy. Linda

From: LMassey628 at aol.com on 2002.12.16 at 13:03:02(9735) In a message dated 12/16/02 1:05:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, ncarz@charter.net writes: > Linda, I have been reading this thread with amazement. I +More > may have missed something but WHO exactly is fining you > here? The city government? Have you been told exactly who > your accuser is? (if not it must be a local coommunity > assosiation or something) a local community regime? What > is the wording of the law that has been. > What exactly is their proof that this is even your plant? > This all seems to be so incredible and absolutly > unacceptable. Hello I live in a condo of single family homes, we own the home and we own the land, the condo part is just the common elements like the pool and tennis courts. It is the board of directors who are harassing me. In fact they went so far as to encourage and solicit other residents to send in written complaints against my garden, when they have never received a complaint about it before. I considered this to be libel and harassment. They never contacted me beforehand ! I was never told that anyone had a problem until one of my neighbors told me about the letter they had received. Once again, my neighbors all around me are on my side of this dispute. The rule they are citing says that gardens must be "maintained". I am maintaining my yard beautifully. In fact a week after this problem started I had an article about my garden in five of the county's newspapers. The reporter and photographer seemed to think my garden was maintained just fine. Linda > How do we contact these people? An email campaign might be > in order. > I would be more than happy to print out and deliver any messages of support you send. > Lawyers (too expensive) and finding a new place to live > don't seem to be feasible answers. > > Neil > If I had the money I would move put that is not possible now. Thanks for your interest and support. Linda

From: LMassey628 at aol.com on 2002.12.16 at 13:04:36(9736) In a message dated 12/16/02 1:05:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, hermine@endangeredspecies.com writes: > THEY WOULD HAVE TO KILL ME. +More > > hermine > When they levied that fine they almost did. One horrible woman on the board wanted the fine to be $100.00 a day. Linda

From: David Hopkins sauromaton at yahoo.co.uk> on 2002.12.16 at 13:56:05(9737) Dear Linda, Thanks for letting me know I'm so sorry. It's not just the money although that is appalling, but the fact that a bunch of idiots can do this. I find it hard to believe that in a supposedly free society that you can be punished so outrageously simply for growing a range of beautiful and exotic plants. I suspect that you will not submit and will not transform your garden to an identikit reproduction of those around you. You need some specialist advice. You could be liable for fines of up to $1000 dollars or, be subject to a law suit seeking the money and a court injunction to change you garden. I'm sorry I thought for some reason that you were in Arizona, but here are the some links for Florida. Have a chat to SHORN and see what they can suggest. Good luck, and remember you're right! If I can help or if you just need to let off steam let me know David +More Law http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0720/titl0720.htm&StatuteYear 00&Title=%2D%3E2000%2D%3EChapter%20720 Complaints http://doacs.state.fl.us/~cs/index.html SHORN http://shorn.hypermart.net/ LMassey628@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 12/14/02 7:31:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, sauromaton@yahoo.co.uk writes: > Hi, > I had my fingers crossed for you hope everything went OK. Please let > us know. > David > Hi David The Florida taliban is fining me $50.00 a day. Linda --------------------------------- With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs

From: hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2002.12.16 at 16:45:22(9738) When they levied that fine they almost did. One horrible woman on the board wanted the fine to be $100.00 a day. Linda +More Find out who signed the thing. IT IS THE RIGHT OF EVERY PERSON TO CONFRONT HIS OR HER ACCUSER, no matter what privacy they may hide behind. When you write your letter you will name the Condo association as a whole and single out the signors as individuals whom you say you plan to sue for hair-assment. Under my every growing folder called ABRIDGEMENTS OF PERSONAL LIBERTIES i find such things as neighborhood associations who in California, for example, dictate to people how tall their plants may grow, so as not to block a view. the requirements for a LAWN. a friend of mine was almost drummed out of Leisure World for growing, among other things, a tomato plant in his front yard, among his mandatory lawn and rosebushes. the back of the house was a botanical collection of some substance. DEATH TO TYRANTS is my motto. i would not PAY THIS FINE and i would also threaten via a letter written by yourself, after consulting with NOLO PRESS, threatening a major lawsuit. i would not want to see you have to go to court over this, i would hope the letter would do the trick. ALSO if any of your plants can be certified by botanical authorities, and I volunteer my cousin who is the taxonomist for LA county, as rare, endangered, threatened, etc, i think this will bolster your case. once the county came and did some "PRUNING" of my front yard, using prisoners on their day out, who were not picking up garbage on the freeway, and butchered a bamboo grove, some of which were plants just out of quarantine, and actually co-owned by the American Bamboo Society. i am certain you heard my screams all the way in Florida. it never happened again, and i insisted on a police report filed for VANDALISM. i also got to scream at the armed, large woman police person who was in charge of the bus full of minor criminals. I came home in the middle of this carnage and about went MAD. in a GOOD way, of course. hermine

From: "Randy Story" story at caltech.edu> on 2002.12.16 at 17:23:08(9739) Linda, So sorry to hear about your problems with your less-than-enlightened neighbors. Very, very sad. As an owner of a very wild garden (in pots only), I am lucky to have very tolerant neighbors and a landlord. I realize you are being inundated with questions (and a lot of support) but here are a couple more: You say that the newspaper articles were a week after the story started--have they followed up since the fining began? A nice community outcry would help. Does your homeowner's organization demand other things, such as a mandatory lawn and mandatory holiday decoration? (I understand such things are common). How many us (all over the country/world) are stuck by all of these and can only maintain our (interesting) plant collections in their backyard? I suspect you are not the only one. I've also heard that in many drought-prone California neighborhoods it is impossible to get rid of the ubiquitous front lawn and replace it with more arid-tolerant plants. (Luckily my mom doesn't live in such a neighborhood--Dracunculus vulgaris was one of the plants that bloomed in her front yard this year in a space formerly occupied by lawn!). I suspect that some of the worst are the "gated communities"--any experiences? I guess my overall question is how many of us are suffering under such homeowner agreements and what can be done about them now and in the future. Good luck, Randy +More ---------- >From: LMassey628@aol.com >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Hope Thursday went Ok >Date: Mon, Dec 16, 2002, 5:03 AM > > In a message dated 12/16/02 1:05:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, > ncarz@charter.net writes: > > >> Linda, I have been reading this thread with amazement. I >> may have missed something but WHO exactly is fining you >> here? The city government? Have you been told exactly who >> your accuser is? (if not it must be a local coommunity >> assosiation or something) a local community regime? What >> is the wording of the law that has been. >> What exactly is their proof that this is even your plant? >> This all seems to be so incredible and absolutly >> unacceptable. > > Hello > I live in a condo of single family homes, we own the home and we own the > land, the condo part is just the common elements like the pool and tennis > courts. It is the board of directors who are harassing me. In fact they > went so far as to encourage and solicit other residents to send in written > complaints against my garden, when they have never received a complaint about > it before. I considered this to be libel and harassment. They never > contacted me beforehand ! I was never told that anyone had a problem until > one of my neighbors told me about the letter they had received. Once again, > my neighbors all around me are on my side of this dispute. > The rule they are citing says that gardens must be "maintained". I am > maintaining my yard beautifully. In fact a week after this problem started I > had an article about my garden in five of the county's newspapers. The > reporter and photographer seemed to think my garden was maintained just fine. > > Linda > > >> How do we contact these people? An email campaign might be >> in order. >> > > I would be more than happy to print out and deliver any messages of support > you send. > > >> Lawyers (too expensive) and finding a new place to live >> don't seem to be feasible answers. >> >> Neil >> > > If I had the money I would move put that is not possible now. > > Thanks for your interest and support. > Linda > > >

From: Betsy Feuerstein ecuador at midsouth.rr.com> on 2002.12.16 at 23:11:16(9741) Just happened to think, is there a newspaper that might publish an article on this case? If so, then you could forward to all of us and I think you could get a ton of folks to start a barrage of emails, or letters to the powers that be. The newspaper gives you a legitimacy and makes them look like jerks. Work on this so we can help you or if you want us to write to them, just put it out on aroid l and the garden web. I think they would hear from people all over the world as to how stupid they look to the world. Just let us know... Betsy +More LMassey628@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/16/02 1:05:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, > hermine@endangeredspecies.com writes: > > > THEY WOULD HAVE TO KILL ME. > > > > hermine > > > > When they levied that fine they almost did. One horrible woman on the board > wanted the fine to be $100.00 a day. > Linda

From: "Marge Talt" mtalt at hort.net> on 2002.12.17 at 03:55:15(9742) Linda, According to a Condo Law column by lawyer Mark Bogen in the Sun Sentinel (one of the links that David posted) : "Unless the association documents give the board the authority to fine, the board is powerless to levy a fine." "Assuming the board has the authority to fine, it cannot levy one until it gives reasonable notice to the unit owner and an opportunity to be heard before a committee of other unit owners." "If the committee does not agree with the fine, the unit owner is not required to pay it." I don't get the impression from your posts that you had a hearing...did you? Seems like a lot hinges on the actual wording of the specific covenants governing your condo association. Do you have a copy of this document? It also seems to me that you ought to get a lawyer. At the very least, talk to some listed on that SHORN site link - http://shorn.hypermart.net/attys.htm +More It might be that they don't charge as much as you might think. At the very least, you ought to try to contact Mike Van Dyk, according to the SHORN site, he's an advocate for people in situations like yours. Michael Van Dyk 20565 NE 6th Court Miami, Fl 33179? Tel (305) 653-1679 Fax (305) 651-8437 e-mail vandykn@aol.com While all of us can write emails in defense of your plants, it does not appear to me that your board is going to pay an ounce of attention to anything but some kind of legal pressure....it wouldn't hurt to get a petition up amongst the neighbors who are supporting you..after all, it's their board, too:-) Whatever your actions, don't buckle under to this - from what you have posted, it appears to be a gross injustice on the part of that board. What on earth are their motives, I wonder? Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Wild, Wonderful Aroids Part 3 - Amorphophallus http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > > Hello > I live in a condo of single family homes, we own the home and we own the > land, the condo part is just the common elements like the pool and tennis > courts. It is the board of directors who are harassing me. In fact they > went so far as to encourage and solicit other residents to send in written > complaints against my garden, when they have never received a complaint about > it before. I considered this to be libel and harassment. They never > contacted me beforehand ! I was never told that anyone had a problem until > one of my neighbors told me about the letter they had received. Once again, > my neighbors all around me are on my side of this dispute. > The rule they are citing says that gardens must be "maintained". I am > maintaining my yard beautifully. In fact a week after this problem started I > had an article about my garden in five of the county's newspapers. The > reporter and photographer seemed to think my garden was maintained just fine. > > Linda > > > > How do we contact these people? An email campaign might be > > in order. > > > > I would be more than happy to print out and deliver any messages of support > you send.

From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2002.12.17 at 18:19:15(9743) In a message dated 12/16/2002 8:00:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, story@caltech.edu writes: > I guess my overall question is how many of us are suffering under such +More > homeowner agreements and what can be done about them now and in the future. > To someone in my position, it's easy -- I will not move into one of those neighborhoods in the first place! To you unfortunates who already did, I'm afraid I can't help you. Ever see the movie, _The Colony_? Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

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