Woodchuck problem

From: <r2ot at charter.net> on 2004.07.22 at 22:22:42(11787) I have been having a problem with a woodchuck/woodchucks chewing up plenty of plants in the garden.If anyone knows a trick or something to scare them away or stop them from chewing up my plants I'd like to hear it Best,zach

From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt at hort.net> on 2004.07.23 at 04:47:41(11789) > From: r2ot@charter.net > I have been having a problem with a woodchuck/woodchucks chewing up plenty of plants in the garden.If anyone knows a trick or something to scare them away or stop them from chewing up my plants I'd like to hear it +More ---------- An aggressive dog running loose will encourage them to move to another area; tethered or indoor dogs won't discourage them. Chickenwire fence buried at least a foot in the soil, turned out away from what you're trying to protect will stop them. Fence doesn't have to be more than 3' tall. You might also try hot pepper spray or one of the other nasty tasting sprays available for discouraging wildlife. They are strict herbivores and can wreak havoc on tasty plantings - I used to have a time with them when I grew veggies before I fenced off the veggie garden. Woodchucks (AKA groundhogs) have poor eyesight but excellent hearing. They are not rocket scientists in the brain department. They are excellent diggers but don't climb. If cornered, they can be aggressive and bite, otherwise they are fairly mild mannered. They dig extensive burrows with more than one entrance, generally marked by a large mound of soil outside the main entrance. If you find a den, you can try running a hose in it tho' that doesn't always work...but if you do it enough, they might decide to move elsewhere. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Corydalis http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.07.23 at 06:41:05(11790) > > I have been having a problem with a woodchuck/woodchucks chewing up plenty of plants in the garden.If anyone knows a trick or something to scare them away or stop them from chewing up my plants I'd like to hear it > > > Best,zach > +More ======================== I had one move in underneath my garage last year. Maybe a better word would be tunneled underneath my garage. It would hop up on my back patio and sun itself. In the process, it knocked off my pots of plumerias and pineapples out into the yard. Then it took a liking to my green tomatoes (plants & fruit). I tried using mothballs, since they deter cats pretty well, but groundhogs don't mind the smell at all. My dogs (jack russell & pekingese) would go nuts watching it lounge about outside our sliding door, and it would pay them no mind unless I let them loose and then it was one fast bugger. It would dive underneath the concrete patio slab (a small gap is between the step and slab) before the dogs cleared the door. I finally ended up borrowing a large Hav-a-hart live box trap from a neighbor and caught it the second day on a cut up apple. I relocated it about 1.5 miles away across a river to a less densely populated area. Short of a shotgun or a very large, mean dog (a large "hog" will tear a dog to pieces if cornered), trapping is about your only alternative. I would recommend a live trap if you can find one. I really enjoyed watching this animal until he got so destructive. David Sizemore Kingsport, TN (Zone 6a)

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.23 at 12:47:13(11791) What's a Woodchuck? ----- Original Message ----- To: +More Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > > From: r2ot@charter.net > > I have been having a problem with a woodchuck/woodchucks chewing > up plenty of plants in the garden.If anyone knows a trick or > something to scare them away or stop them from chewing up my plants > I'd like to hear it > ---------- > > An aggressive dog running loose will encourage them to move to > another area; tethered or indoor dogs won't discourage them. > Chickenwire fence buried at least a foot in the soil, turned out away > from what you're trying to protect will stop them. Fence doesn't > have to be more than 3' tall. You might also try hot pepper spray or > one of the other nasty tasting sprays available for discouraging > wildlife. They are strict herbivores and can wreak havoc on tasty > plantings - I used to have a time with them when I grew veggies > before I fenced off the veggie garden. > > Woodchucks (AKA groundhogs) have poor eyesight but excellent hearing. > They are not rocket scientists in the brain department. They are > excellent diggers but don't climb. If cornered, they can be > aggressive and bite, otherwise they are fairly mild mannered. They > dig extensive burrows with more than one entrance, generally marked > by a large mound of soil outside the main entrance. If you find a > den, you can try running a hose in it tho' that doesn't always > work...but if you do it enough, they might decide to move elsewhere. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Corydalis > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > ------------------------------------------------ > All Suite101.com garden topics : > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > > > > > >

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.07.23 at 20:35:57(11792) ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:47 AM +More Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > > Woodchucks (AKA groundhogs) have poor eyesight but excellent hearing. > They are not rocket scientists in the brain department. They are > excellent diggers but don't climb. If cornered, they can be > aggressive and bite, otherwise they are fairly mild mannered. They > dig extensive burrows with more than one entrance, generally marked > by a large mound of soil outside the main entrance. If you find a > den, you can try running a hose in it tho' that doesn't always > work...but if you do it enough, they might decide to move elsewhere. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Corydalis > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > ------------------------------------------------ > All Suite101.com garden topics : > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > ================================ Marge, I know you said that they can't climb, but I can assure that they can climb quite well. I caught mine one day up in one of my apple trees munching on the young leaves after it had bloomed. It ran down that tree like a cat after it spotted me. It would also regularly climb three feet up the brick walls into my flower planters to get to the tomatoes and then up onto the concrete column caps to sun itself. David Sizemore Kingsport, TN (Zone 6a)

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.07.23 at 20:59:30(11793) > What's a Woodchuck? > ============== +More A woodchuck or what we southerners call a groundhog, is a large rodent that looks sort of like a beaver but with a shorter brushy tail. They are a type of marmot (Marmota monax) and burrow underground, eat vegetation, especially loving apples and fresh vegetables (fruit & vegetation) from peoples gardens. Farmers especially don't like them because their large burrows (with multiple entrances) present a hazard to both cattle and farm machinery. The one I just relocated had three burrow entrances underneath my garage foundation. I had one as a pet many years ago that was an orphan pup that someone found and bottle fed. He was very friendly and followed me around just like a dog and would come to you if you called his name or whistled and like to be held and carried around. All was well until he got mature and then the urge to dig took over. You just could not contain him in anything short of a steel cage as he was very strong. We finally ended up giving him to our large mountaintop city park's wildlife folks, who relocated him to a fairly remote area of the park. Every year they had a festival at this section of the park and he would come out to be fed and petted even though he probably weight over 10 pounds. He even made the local paper one time when they had a picture of him sitting up on a stump with everyone gathered 'round him. He must have lived around five years. http://www.hoghaven.com/ http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?pid=1&id9&cid=8 David Sizemore

From: Ellen Hornig <hornig at Oswego.EDU> on 2004.07.23 at 21:59:52(11794) I once met a farm family who had had a pet woodchuck when the kids were little. When it was hungry, it would stand in front of the refrigerator and whistle (an evolutionary adaptation, no doubt :-)). It didn't bite unless someone had Reese's peanut-butter cups and wouldn't share them... Ellen +More ******************************************************************* Ellen Hornig Seneca Hill Perennials 3712 County Route 57 Oswego, New York 13126 USA USDA zone 5B (mintemps -10 to -20F) Phone:(315) 342-5915 Fax: (315) 342-5573 Website: http://www.senecahill.com

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.23 at 22:29:14(11795) Thank You David & Ellen for your very refreshingly funny & "different" anecdotes about the dreaded GroundHog! Great! Ron +More Ron ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ron iles" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > > > > What's a Woodchuck? > > > ============== > A woodchuck or what we southerners call a groundhog, is a large rodent that > looks sort of like a beaver but with a shorter brushy tail. They are a > type of marmot (Marmota monax) and burrow underground, eat vegetation, > especially loving apples and fresh vegetables (fruit & vegetation) from > peoples gardens. Farmers especially don't like them because their large > burrows (with multiple entrances) present a hazard to both cattle and farm > machinery. The one I just relocated had three burrow entrances underneath > my garage foundation. > > I had one as a pet many years ago that was an orphan pup that someone found > and bottle fed. He was very friendly and followed me around just like a > dog and would come to you if you called his name or whistled and like to be > held and carried around. All was well until he got mature and then the urge > to dig took over. You just could not contain him in anything short of a > steel cage as he was very strong. We finally ended up giving him to our > large mountaintop city park's wildlife folks, who relocated him to a fairly > remote area of the park. Every year they had a festival at this section of > the park and he would come out to be fed and petted even though he probably > weight over 10 pounds. He even made the local paper one time when they had > a picture of him sitting up on a stump with everyone gathered 'round him. > He must have lived around five years. > > http://www.hoghaven.com/ > http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?pid=1&id9&cid=8 > > David Sizemore > > >

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.23 at 22:40:52(11796) >From: Ellen Hornig >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Hi All, BUT---the main question sshould be--- "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, IF a woodchuck could chuck wood?!?!?" (a tongue-twister from my childhood) Julius +More >I once met a farm family who had had a pet woodchuck when the kids were >little. When it was hungry, it would stand in front of the refrigerator >and whistle (an evolutionary adaptation, no doubt :-)). It didn't bite >unless someone had Reese's peanut-butter cups and wouldn't share them... > >Ellen > >******************************************************************* >Ellen Hornig >Seneca Hill Perennials >3712 County Route 57 >Oswego, New York 13126 USA >USDA zone 5B (mintemps -10 to -20F) >Phone:(315) 342-5915 >Fax: (315) 342-5573 >Website: http://www.senecahill.com > >

From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt at hort.net> on 2004.07.24 at 09:25:56(11797) That does surprise me. The ones that used to live here never climbed anything! Amazing. You just never know with critters; they, like plants are a constant source of new knowledge. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net +More Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Corydalis http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 ---------- > From: plantsman > Marge, I know you said that they can't climb, but I can assure that they can > climb quite well. I caught mine one day up in one of my apple trees > munching on the young leaves after it had bloomed. It ran down that tree > like a cat after it spotted me. It would also regularly climb three feet up > the brick walls into my flower planters to get to the tomatoes and then up > onto the concrete column caps to sun itself.

From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt at hort.net> on 2004.07.24 at 09:27:56(11798) > From: Ellen Hornig > I once met a farm family who had had a pet woodchuck when the kids were +More > little. When it was hungry, it would stand in front of the refrigerator > and whistle (an evolutionary adaptation, no doubt :-)). It didn't bite > unless someone had Reese's peanut-butter cups and wouldn't share them... ---------- Another common name for these guys is 'whistling pigs'...they make a whistling sound as a warning sound ; guess they use it for other things as well. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Corydalis http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635

From: "Peter Boyce" <peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2004.07.25 at 06:02:37(11799) Perhaps we need to look at alternative organic solutions. In Laos the farmers deal with extraordinarily destructive cane rats in padi fields by the simple expedient of BBQing them (the cane rats, not the padi fields). So.... is woodchuck good eating? If yes, perhaps you could initiate a bounty system with the local kids (as is done in Laos; the kids use catapults with deadly accuracy (not just on the cane rats either; I had a bruised butt to prove that point)) and then have the woodchuck equivalent of a clam-bake? Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Julius Boos To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >From: Ellen Hornig >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Hi All, BUT---the main question sshould be--- "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, IF a woodchuck could chuck wood?!?!?" (a tongue-twister from my childhood) Julius >I once met a farm family who had had a pet woodchuck when the kids were >little. When it was hungry, it would stand in front of the refrigerator >and whistle (an evolutionary adaptation, no doubt :-)). It didn't bite >unless someone had Reese's peanut-butter cups and wouldn't share them... > >Ellen > >******************************************************************* >Ellen Hornig >Seneca Hill Perennials >3712 County Route 57 >Oswego, New York 13126 USA >USDA zone 5B (mintemps -10 to -20F) >Phone:(315) 342-5915 >Fax: (315) 342-5573 >Website: http://www.senecahill.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Don Martinson <llmen at wi.rr.com> on 2004.07.25 at 07:53:06(11800) Perhaps we need to look at alternative organic solutions. In Laos the farmers deal with extraordinarily destructive cane rats in padi fields by the simple expedient of BBQing them (the cane rats, not the padi fields). So.... is woodchuck good eating? Umm... I'm afraid this would fall under the category of a sort of "temperate climate bushmeat" or even worse, roadkill. Could be some nasty pathogens lurking there. In other words, "Caveat consumptor"! -- Don Martinson +More Milwaukee, Wisconsin Mailto:llmen@wi.rr.com

From: "MJ Hatfield" <mjhatfield at oneota.org> on 2004.07.25 at 16:22:56(11802) OR, purchase/save enough set aside habitat/land for the woodchucks so that they have other places to feed. MJ Hatfield

From: "Harry Witmore" <harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2004.07.25 at 16:51:09(11803) Well, we don't have woodchucks but we have squirrels. I don't want to eat either although I haven't tried woodchuck. I pretty much just try to live in harmony or disharmony with the creatures here in the North Carolina woods. They get some of my plants but I don't give the access to the ones they like the best (Rhipsalis). I have a boxer that likes to chase the squirrels but we won't let her get them and squirrels won't either. +More -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Peter Boyce Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:03 AM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem Perhaps we need to look at alternative organic solutions. In Laos the farmers deal with extraordinarily destructive cane rats in padi fields by the simple expedient of BBQing them (the cane rats, not the padi fields). So.... is woodchuck good eating? If yes, perhaps you could initiate a bounty system with the local kids (as is done in Laos; the kids use catapults with deadly accuracy (not just on the cane rats either; I had a bruised butt to prove that point)) and then have the woodchuck equivalent of a clam-bake? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Julius Boos To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >From: Ellen Hornig >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Hi All, BUT---the main question sshould be--- "How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, IF a woodchuck could chuck wood?!?!?" (a tongue-twister from my childhood) Julius >I once met a farm family who had had a pet woodchuck when the kids were >little. When it was hungry, it would stand in front of the refrigerator >and whistle (an evolutionary adaptation, no doubt :-)). It didn't bite >unless someone had Reese's peanut-butter cups and wouldn't share them... > >Ellen > >******************************************************************* >Ellen Hornig >Seneca Hill Perennials >3712 County Route 57 >Oswego, New York 13126 USA >USDA zone 5B (mintemps -10 to -20F) >Phone:(315) 342-5915 >Fax: (315) 342-5573 >Website: http://www.senecahill.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.25 at 17:10:43(11804) I inhabit a magnificent crater Nature Reserve valley degraded by cows & sheep, would woodchuck burrows make them extinct & give the wild orchids a chance? Needless to say, I'm NOT being serious, unless I gotta be! R +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > OR, purchase/save enough set aside habitat/land for the woodchucks so that > they have other places to feed. > > MJ Hatfield > > >

From: "Ann McCulloh" <amcculloh at cbgarden.org> on 2004.07.25 at 17:20:48(11805) Like many successful animal species - Woodchuck numbers will expand to fill available habitat, whether or not humans are in that space. Deer, raccoons, woodchucks, squirrels, geese, etc. can thrive in the same habitats as people, and have become de-sensitized to our presence from necessity. With thousands of acres of relatively "wild" territory all around, woodchucks choose to burrow under our garage because the slab makes a nice roof for them, not because they've been driven out of the woodpiles and creek banks that abound in the area. And they ravage the garden because the cultivated plants are tender, tasty and available, not necessarily because there's a great shortage of "wild" fodder. We create pleasant circumstances for ourselves, and some of the more adaptable mammals share our tastes! Please don't get me wrong - I am all for expanding our reserves of wild land (and keeping them free of mining, timbering, etc.) That will make a critical difference to many vulnerable species - I just don't think woodchucks will "keep to their place" if we give it to them! Ann E. McCulloh +More Curator of Collections Cleveland Botanical Garden 11030 East Blvd. Cleveland, Ohio 44106 216 707-2829 phone 216 721-1694 fax -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:23 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem OR, purchase/save enough set aside habitat/land for the woodchucks so that they have other places to feed. MJ Hatfield

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.07.25 at 18:30:32(11806) Perhaps we need to look at alternative organic solutions. In Laos the farmers deal with extraordinarily destructive cane rats in padi fields by the simple expedient of BBQing them (the cane rats, not the padi fields). So.... is woodchuck good eating? If yes, perhaps you could initiate a bounty system with the local kids (as is done in Laos; the kids use catapults with deadly accuracy (not just on the cane rats either; I had a bruised butt to prove that point)) and then have the woodchuck equivalent of a clam-bake? Pete +More ================= Reliable sources (my late grandfather) told me that groundhogs were very good to eat. He had a little chihuahua dog named Ricky that would go into the burrow after them and drag them out and then he would shoot them. As kids, we thought it was funny to see that little dog bravely go after an animal several times his size but we would never eat any of it. My grandma would fried them up for him like chicken in a great big iron skillet. David Sizemore

From: "MJ Hatfield" <mjhatfield at oneota.org> on 2004.07.25 at 21:00:12(11808) OK then, I am lucky. I've lived with woodchucks for 21 years, 4-5 burrows surrounding my house and gardens (only 1 active per year) and never (knock on wood) had a problem with them in the gardens. But then I've never had a problem with the rabbits either. I always figured since I garden with natives as well as exotics and that I leave plenty of wildness about that it allowed them to leave my "special" stuff alone. I guess I'll count my blessings rather than assume that it was something I did. As a side note on my Amorphophallus (after all this is an Aroid list), last year was hot and dry. So this year I potted all my Amorph tubers is a less well drained mix. We then proceeded to have a cold/cool wet spring/summer. I just knew the tubers were sitting in pots rotting but I didn't have time to re-pot them. But, as good luck would have it, every single day as I checked on them, 1-7 of the pots had growth emerging. Out of 250+ pots I am only missing new growth in about 20+ of them and still getting 1 new growth per day. +More Thanks to the powers that be! MJ Hatfield

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.07.25 at 21:08:51(11809) >From: "Peter Boyce" >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: +More >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:02:37 +0800 > Dear Pete and all, You will never know how close I was to writing a letter in the same vien as yours, Pete! Woodchucks USED to be hunted as 'varmints' (shot and killed as distructive pests, not eaten afterward) years ago, I don`t know if this continues. I was told not to handle a dead one years ago in New Jersey, I was told that their fleas were possible carries of plague. For 'humanitarian' reasons folks here in most of the USA just are NOT inclined to take these hard but necessary steps to control any animal population that is out of control (I don`t believe woodchucks fall into this catogory as they are just exploiting a too-readily available food/housing source). Here in Florida the introduced muscovy ducks are a major pest, as far as I know NOT protected as they are not native and take over native duck habitat, yet if a 'crazy' W. Indian catches one and humanely slaughters and eats it, there is one hell of an outcry in the newspaper! s, and the 'wildlife authorites' make the eaters life miserable (no 'offical' charges can be filed, but it is possible to be charged w/ 'animal curelty') for a few weeks so that he/she is not prone to capture/kill/eat another duck, manure-covered patios/lawns be dammed! On another 'case' I was approached by someone from a very prominent Botanical Garden a couple yeras ago, she complained that the introduced common green iguanas (escapees or animals released from owners when they become too large or agressive after being bought as a 'pet') had bred to the point that there was a huge population living on the grounds of this garden and damaging/destroying the rare plants and trees, they could be seen 'grazing' in numbers on theplants and lawns during the day! When I suggested hiring a few gardeners born in the Islands and letting them deal w/ this problem by descretely using nooses to capture these introduced pests, I was ask! ed what the gardeners would do w/ them, when I told her that iguana wa s a delicacy ("green fowl' in Trinidad, rare in other Islands also!!) she was HORRIFIED and nixed the idea. I then advised her to get accostomed to a drastically reduced number of rare plants at the garden and perhaps advertize her tame iguanas as an attraction to visitors, as the iguanas were breeding in droves w/ no predators to control their numbers. Oh well, I guess that is life in the 'big city'. Julius

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.25 at 21:28:41(11810) Green Iguanas! Another added to my diet, the muscovies come frozen. Sorry about this Mr. Moderators. R ----- Original Message ----- +More From: Julius Boos To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >From: "Peter Boyce" >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:02:37 +0800 > Dear Pete and all, You will never know how close I was to writing a letter in the same vien as yours, Pete! Woodchucks USED to be hunted as 'varmints' (shot and killed as distructive pests, not eaten afterward) years ago, I don`t know if this continues. I was told not to handle a dead one years ago in New Jersey, I was told that their fleas were possible carries of plague. For 'humanitarian' reasons folks here in most of the USA just are NOT inclined to take these hard but necessary steps to control any animal population that is out of control (I don`t believe woodchucks fall into this catogory as they are just exploiting a too-readily available food/housing source). Here in Florida the introduced muscovy ducks are a major pest, as far as I know NOT protected as they are not native and take over native duck habitat, yet if a 'crazy' W. Indian catches one and humanely slaughters and eats it, there is one hell of an outcry in the newspaper! s, and the 'wildlife authorites' make the eaters life miserable (no 'offical' charges can be filed, but it is possible to be charged w/ 'animal curelty') for a few weeks so that he/she is not prone to capture/kill/eat another duck, manure-covered patios/lawns be dammed! On another 'case' I was approached by someone from a very prominent Botanical Garden a couple yeras ago, she complained that the introduced common green iguanas (escapees or animals released from owners when they become too large or agressive after being bought as a 'pet') had bred to the point that there was a huge population living on the grounds of this garden and damaging/destroying the rare plants and trees, they could be seen 'grazing' in numbers on theplants and lawns during the day! When I suggested hiring a few gardeners born in the Islands and letting them deal w/ this problem by descretely using nooses to capture these introduced pests, I was ask! ed what the gardeners would do w/ them, when I told her that iguana wa s a delicacy ("green fowl' in Trinidad, rare in other Islands also!!) she was HOR RIFIED stomed to a drastically reduced number of rare plants at the garden and perhaps advertize her tame iguanas as an attraction to visitors, as the iguanas were breeding in droves w/ no predators to control their numbers. Oh well, I guess that is life in the 'big city'. Julius

From: "ron iles" <roniles at eircom.net> on 2004.07.25 at 21:36:17(11811) P.S. David. Did your grannie ever eat the chihahua? Peter To supplement your meagre income from your Borneo market plant stall why not ask MacDonalds if they want you to supply Cane Rat substitutes for Woodchuck sbutties with Monstera Fruit & even Durian? Isn't Life fun? +More Ron, Spathiphyllum Ark Mortician (You see it IS aroid! Good on yer Mr. Moderators) (Grow anything which moves) ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Boyce" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:02 AM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > > > Perhaps we need to look at alternative organic solutions. In Laos the > farmers deal with extraordinarily destructive cane rats in padi fields by > the simple expedient of BBQing them (the cane rats, not the padi fields). > > So.... is woodchuck good eating? If yes, perhaps you could initiate a bounty > system with the local kids (as is done in Laos; the kids use catapults with > deadly accuracy (not just on the cane rats either; I had a bruised butt to > prove that point)) and then have the woodchuck equivalent of a clam-bake? > > Pete > > ================= > Reliable sources (my late grandfather) told me that groundhogs were very > good to eat. He had a little chihuahua dog named Ricky that would go into > the burrow after them and drag them out and then he would shoot them. As > kids, we thought it was funny to see that little dog bravely go after an > animal several times his size but we would never eat any of it. My grandma > would fried them up for him like chicken in a great big iron skillet. > > David Sizemore > > >

From: "Peter Boyce" <peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2004.07.25 at 21:58:23(11812) >He had a little chihuahua dog named Ricky that would go into > the burrow after them and drag them out and then he would shoot them. He! David that's one smart dog; so much easier on the teeth - I must inform my hound (who's kinda dopey) he's been going about this hunting thing all wrong. +More Great story! Pete

From: "Peter Boyce" <peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2004.07.25 at 22:09:36(11813) Julius' point is a VERY salient one; depending on where you garden in the world someone's treasured pet can be a major pest. Here in Sarawak monkeys (especially the cute silver leaf monkey which in former less-enlightened times was the one sold in pet shops in Europe and the US) are a major pest of orchards; a small group will devastate an orchard of fruit eating what they can and ruining the remainder by biting the fruit to see if it's ripe. At the ultimate extreme, at least two national parks in Thailand have had to go to the astronomical expense of installing anti-elephant fences to protect their nursery plantations from roaming herbs (elephant populations in Thailand ore increasing at teh same time the forests are shrinking - a bad combination). Mercifully elephants aren't known to burrow and haven't yet figured that they could climb over the barrier if they had a step ladder.... Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- From: Julius Boos To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:08 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >From: "Peter Boyce" >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:02:37 +0800 > Dear Pete and all, You will never know how close I was to writing a letter in the same vien as yours, Pete! Woodchucks USED to be hunted as 'varmints' (shot and killed as distructive pests, not eaten afterward) years ago, I don`t know if this continues. I was told not to handle a dead one years ago in New Jersey, I was told that their fleas were possible carries of plague. For 'humanitarian' reasons folks here in most of the USA just are NOT inclined to take these hard but necessary steps to control any animal population that is out of control (I don`t believe woodchucks fall into this catogory as they are just exploiting a too-readily available food/housing source). Here in Florida the introduced muscovy ducks are a major pest, as far as I know NOT protected as they are not native and take over native duck habitat, yet if a 'crazy' W. Indian catches one and humanely slaughters and eats it, there is one hell of an outcry in the newspaper! s, and the 'wildlife authorites' make the eaters life miserable (no 'offical' charges can be filed, but it is possible to be charged w/ 'animal curelty') for a few weeks so that he/she is not prone to capture/kill/eat another duck, manure-covered patios/lawns be dammed! On another 'case' I was approached by someone from a very prominent Botanical Garden a couple yeras ago, she complained that the introduced common green iguanas (escapees or animals released from owners when they become too large or agressive after being bought as a 'pet') had bred to the point that there was a huge population living on the grounds of this garden and damaging/destroying the rare plants and trees, they could be seen 'grazing' in numbers on theplants and lawns during the day! When I suggested hiring a few gardeners born in the Islands and letting them deal w/ this problem by descretely using nooses to capture these introduced pests, I was ask! ed what the gardeners would do w/ them, when I told her that iguana wa s a delicacy ("green fowl' in Trinidad, rare in other Islands also!!) she was HOR RIFIED stomed to a drastically reduced number of rare plants at the garden and perhaps advertize her tame iguanas as an attraction to visitors, as the iguanas were breeding in droves w/ no predators to control their numbers. Oh well, I guess that is life in the 'big city'. Julius ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "plantsman" <plantsman at prodigy.net> on 2004.07.26 at 03:42:23(11815) You describe my situation very much. I live right in the middle of a good sized subdivision fronting a very busy highway and there's plenty of wild land around us. We have deer, turkey, rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, opossums, skunks, foxes and who knows what else that's regularly seen and/or encountered in our yards. Thirty-five years ago when I first moved here as a kid, the only wild animals around here were the occasional rabbit, opossum and skunk and that was before the subdivision grew and it was mostly empty fields and woodlands around us. Groundhogs are definitely opportunists. David Sizemore +More Kingsport, TN (Zone 6a) ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem > Like many successful animal species - Woodchuck numbers will expand to > fill available habitat, whether or not humans are in that space. Deer, > raccoons, woodchucks, squirrels, geese, etc. can thrive in the same > habitats as people, and have become de-sensitized to our presence from > necessity. > > With thousands of acres of relatively "wild" territory all around, > woodchucks choose to burrow under our garage because the slab makes a > nice roof for them, not because they've been driven out of the woodpiles > and creek banks that abound in the area. And they ravage the garden > because the cultivated plants are tender, tasty and available, not > necessarily because there's a great shortage of "wild" fodder. We create > pleasant circumstances for ourselves, and some of the more adaptable > mammals share our tastes! > > Please don't get me wrong - I am all for expanding our reserves of wild > land (and keeping them free of mining, timbering, etc.) That will make a > critical difference to many vulnerable species - I just don't think > woodchucks will "keep to their place" if we give it to them! > > Ann E. McCulloh > > Curator of Collections > Cleveland Botanical Garden > 11030 East Blvd. > Cleveland, Ohio 44106 > > 216 707-2829 phone > 216 721-1694 fax

From: "Marge Talt" <mtalt at hort.net> on 2004.07.26 at 07:52:59(11817) Realize this is not aroid related, but am very curious about what one would use to make a fence that would stop a determined elephant. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net +More Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Corydalis http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 ---------- At the ultimate extreme, at least two national parks in Thailand have had to go to the astronomical expense of installing anti-elephant fences to protect their nursery plantations from roaming herbs (elephant populations in Thailand ore increasing at teh same time the forests are shrinking - a bad combination). Mercifully elephants aren't known to burrow and haven't yet figured that they could climb over the barrier if they had a step ladder....

From: "Bryant, Harry E." <HEBryant at scj.com> on 2004.07.26 at 12:42:38(11820) Re: the ground hog problem. http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page502.html claims ROPEL will drive the buggars away. I have no experience with them personally. I probably have relatives in Kentucky that would say the make a good stew, but these are the same ones that eat squirrel brains and road kill. 8 ) Harry Bryant +More _____ Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:09 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >From: "Peter Boyce" >Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu >To: >Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Woodchuck problem >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 14:02:37 +0800 > Dear Pete and all, You will never know how close I was to writing a letter in the same vien as yours, Pete! Woodchucks USED to be hunted as 'varmints' (shot and killed as distructive pests, not eaten afterward) years ago, I don`t know if this continues. I was told not to handle a dead one years ago in New Jersey, I was told that their fleas were possible carries of plague. For 'humanitarian' reasons folks here in most of the USA just are NOT inclined to take these hard but necessary steps to control any animal population that is out of control (I don`t believe woodchucks fall into this catogory as they are just exploiting a too-readily available food/housing source). Here in Florida the introduced muscovy ducks are a major pest, as far as I know NOT protected as they are not native and take over native duck habitat, yet if a 'crazy' W. Indian catches one and humanely slaughters and eats it, there is one hell of an outcry in the newspaper! s, and the 'wildlife authorites' make the eaters life miserable (no 'offical' charges can be filed, but it is possible to be charged w/ 'animal curelty') for a few weeks so that he/she is not prone to capture/kill/eat another duck, manure-covered patios/lawns be dammed! On another 'case' I was approached by someone from a very prominent Botanical Garden a couple yeras ago, she complained that the introduced common green iguanas (escapees or animals released from owners when they become too large or agressive after being bought as a 'pet') had bred to the point that there was a huge population living on the grounds of this garden and damaging/destroying the rare plants and trees, they could be seen 'grazing' in numbers on theplants and lawns during the day! When I suggested hiring a few gardeners born in the Islands and letting them deal w/ this problem by descretely using nooses to capture these introduced pests, I was ask! ed what the gardeners would do w/ them, when I told her that iguana wa s a delicacy ("green fowl' in Trinidad, rare in other Islands also!!) she was HORRIFIED and nixed the idea. I then advised her to get accostomed to a drastically reduced number of rare plants at the garden and perhaps advertize her tame iguanas as an attraction to visitors, as the iguanas were breeding in droves w/ no predators to control their numbers. Oh well, I guess that is life in the 'big city'. Julius

From: "Peter Boyce" <peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2004.07.26 at 21:22:13(11826) Hi Marge Steel 15 x 20 cm, 6 m long I-beams (known as RSJ's in the UK) buried and concreted 3 meters into the ground at 1 meter intevals and then disguised by coating them in a concrete-soil mixture that very quickly becomes moss- and lichen covered. Pete +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > Realize this is not aroid related, but am very curious about what one > would use to make a fence that would stop a determined elephant. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Corydalis > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > ------------------------------------------------ > All Suite101.com garden topics : > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > > ---------- > From: Peter Boyce > At the ultimate extreme, at least two national parks in Thailand have > had to go to the astronomical expense of installing anti-elephant > fences to protect their nursery plantations from roaming herbs > (elephant populations in Thailand ore increasing at teh same time the > forests are shrinking - a bad combination). > > Mercifully elephants aren't known to burrow and haven't yet figured > that they could climb over the barrier if they had a step ladder.... > > > > [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] >

From: "Enid" <enigo at bellsouth.net> on 2004.07.28 at 02:07:09(11848) Hi All, A cheaper alternative would be twenty or thirty dollars worth of rubber mice (approx. a dollar each as a cats toy. They are available in most pet stores) sprinkled amongst the perennial garden should do the trick. ..everyone knows pachyderms fear mice...hehe Enid +More Natural Selections Exotics 1401 SW 1 st Ave Ft Lauderdale, FL 33315 www.NSExotics.com ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > Hi Marge > > Steel 15 x 20 cm, 6 m long I-beams (known as RSJ's in the UK) buried and > concreted 3 meters into the ground at 1 meter intevals and then disguised by > coating them in a concrete-soil mixture that very quickly becomes moss- and > lichen covered. > > Pete > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marge Talt" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > > > > Realize this is not aroid related, but am very curious about what one > > would use to make a fence that would stop a determined elephant. > > > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > > mtalt@hort.net > > Editor: Gardening in Shade > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Current Article: Corydalis > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > > ------------------------------------------------ > > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > > ------------------------------------------------ > > All Suite101.com garden topics : > > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > > > > ---------- > > From: Peter Boyce > > At the ultimate extreme, at least two national parks in Thailand have > > had to go to the astronomical expense of installing anti-elephant > > fences to protect their nursery plantations from roaming herbs > > (elephant populations in Thailand ore increasing at teh same time the > > forests are shrinking - a bad combination). > > > > Mercifully elephants aren't known to burrow and haven't yet figured > > that they could climb over the barrier if they had a step ladder.... > > > > > > > > [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] > > > > >

From: "Peter Boyce" <peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2004.07.29 at 07:32:47(11869) Ah, yes, but then the elephants will panic and trample up and down looking to escape... or worse will climb into nearby fruit trees where you won't be able to see them because they paint their toenails red and pretend to be bunches of cherries... +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > Hi All, > A cheaper alternative would be twenty or thirty dollars worth of rubber mice > (approx. a dollar each as a cats toy. They are available in most pet stores) > sprinkled amongst the perennial garden should do the trick. ..everyone > knows pachyderms fear mice...hehe > > Enid > > Natural Selections Exotics > 1401 SW 1 st Ave > Ft Lauderdale, FL 33315 > www.NSExotics.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Boyce" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 5:22 PM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > > > > Hi Marge > > > > Steel 15 x 20 cm, 6 m long I-beams (known as RSJ's in the UK) buried and > > concreted 3 meters into the ground at 1 meter intevals and then disguised > by > > coating them in a concrete-soil mixture that very quickly becomes moss- > and > > lichen covered. > > > > Pete > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marge Talt" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:52 PM > > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] elephant fences was: Woodchuck problem > > > > > > > Realize this is not aroid related, but am very curious about what one > > > would use to make a fence that would stop a determined elephant. > > > > > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > > > mtalt@hort.net > > > Editor: Gardening in Shade > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Current Article: Corydalis > > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > > > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > > > ------------------------------------------------ > > > All Suite101.com garden topics : > > > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 > > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Peter Boyce > > > At the ultimate extreme, at least two national parks in Thailand have > > > had to go to the astronomical expense of installing anti-elephant > > > fences to protect their nursery plantations from roaming herbs > > > (elephant populations in Thailand ore increasing at teh same time the > > > forests are shrinking - a bad combination). > > > > > > Mercifully elephants aren't known to burrow and haven't yet figured > > > that they could climb over the barrier if they had a step ladder.... > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [ Scanned by JARING E-Mail Virus Scanner ( http://www.jaring.my ) ] >

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