Am. titanum 'ghost' and titanum seedling questions

From: Paul Tyerman ptyerman at ozemail.com.au> on 2005.06.13 at 03:29:58(13001) At 07:50 13/06/05, you wrote: My limited experience is also with other genera, and is exactly as George described - 1 or perhaps 2 seasons of decline and then disappearance. My very Steve et al, Until a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you completely. I have had no white seedlings appear so I cannot comment on Aroids but my understanding was always that no green = chlorophyll = no future! A few years ago however I had an experience that shows this is not always the case. I sowed 6 seedlings of a rather uncommon plant called Rigidella orthantha (family Iridaceae) and every one of them shot pure white shoots. I asked on one of the bulb lists and was told that there was little hope of there being any future for them so I didn't hope much for any return. They grew for a few months but at no time was there even a suggestion of green as far as I could tell, so when they died down I expected that to be the end of those seedlings. I was somewhat surprised the following year when green growth appeared in the pots. I had had 6 white shoots from the 6 seeds the first year but I had 11 (or was it twelve?) green shoots appear in the pot the following season. They were perfectly normal green and have grown quite happily since then, which I can't explain at all given the experiences of most people with no chlorophyll in germinated seedlings. Not only had they returned but as far as I can tell they multiplied during their first growing season as well. I do not understand how this is possible given the lack of chlorophyll but obviously there was some food being produced somewhere in the process, enough to form 2 bulbs for each shoot. Rigidella seed are quite small as well, so I think it is unlikely that food reserves in the seed could have contributed much in the way of oomph to the new seedlings. I've contributed this story a couple of times to discussions on white seedlings over the last couple of years (sorry if some of you are reading this account for a second time) and no-one seems to be able to explain why my seedlings not only returned, but seemed to have enough food to produce more than a single bulb during the season without greenery. It has me completely stumped!! It goes to show that there obviously must be an at least limited food production in some all-white seedlings, so it is at least a limited possibility that the 'ghost' titanum may return for a second season? While discussing titanum seedlings can I ask what the expected leaf production habits of titanum are when young? I know that some of the Amorphs produce leaf after leaf while young and tend to grow quite rapidly as a result, while others only produce a single leaf and stick with that until their first dormancy. I was expecting that my titanum seedlings would most likely be of the latter variety, only producing the single leaf before their first dormancy, but one of the seedlings I have is currently sending up a second leaf beside the first. They are a good few months old now and it only seems to be one of them doing this, but it is still a surprise to me. Should I be expecting that the rest of the seedlings will do this as well, and if so does that mean that the titanum seedling will effectively grow continuously for a number of years before it goes into it's first dormancy? I am aware that apparently the approximately 18 month leaf growth-span of a mature titanum seems to produce enough food to initiate a flowering before the next leaf appears, but does that mean that the seedlings continue as evergreens until they are large enough to produce their first flowers? Or is there a continuous growth just until it reaches a size large enough to survive a dormancy and then it enters into the up to 18 month leaf phase until it reaches flowering size? Or is it just unusual for them to send up a second leaf while young and my seedlings is just a freak? I have tried to look for this sort of information on the Net, but if it is there then I am obviously not using the right search words to find it. Thanks for any information anyone can provide..... I would just like to know what to expect from my titanum seedlings. I must also now apologise if there is a delay in my responding to any answers to my questions. I am battling ill health at the moment (my darn Chronic Fatigue again) and my use of the computer is somewhat intermittent at the present time. I just want to make sure that people who take the time to answer my questions do not think I am being ungrateful by being silent..... it is more likely that I am just not on the computer for a while. Thanks again in anticipation. Cheers. Paul Tyerman +More Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8/9 Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Trilliums, Cyclamen, Crocus, Cyrtanthus, Oxalis, Liliums, Hellebores, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: piaba piabinha at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.13 at 15:43:32(13005) hello paul, my one reaction to your post is that in the past i have been surprised to find changes in tuber size (growth) and even its position in the pot, changes that occurred while the plants were supposedly dormant, with no above ground growth. this occurred with a Taccarum and some Dioscoreas. that to me suggests that while plants seem to be dormant (because there's no green growth), sometimes the tuber is actively still metabolizing and growing underground. is this possible or am i imagining things? wishing you a speedy recovery, tsuh yang +More --- Paul Tyerman wrote: > A few years ago however I had an experience that > shows this is not always > the case. I sowed 6 seedlings of a rather uncommon > plant called Rigidella > orthantha (family Iridaceae) and every one of them > shot pure white > shoots. I asked on one of the bulb lists and was > told that there was > little hope of there being any future for them so I > didn't hope much for > any return. They grew for a few months but at no > time was there even a > suggestion of green as far as I could tell, so when > they died down I > expected that to be the end of those seedlings. > I was somewhat surprised the following year when > green growth appeared in > the pots. I had had 6 white shoots from the 6 seeds > the first year but I > had 11 (or was it twelve?) green shoots appear in > the pot the following > season. They were perfectly normal green and have > grown quite happily > since then, which I can't explain at all given the > experiences of most > people with no chlorophyll in germinated seedlings. > Not only had they > returned but as far as I can tell they multiplied > during their first > growing season as well. I do not understand how > this is possible given the > lack of chlorophyll but obviously there was some > food being produced > somewhere in the process, enough to form 2 bulbs for > each shoot. Rigidella > seed are quite small as well, so I think it is > unlikely that food reserves > in the seed could have contributed much in the way > of oomph to the new > seedlings. __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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