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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
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Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
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From: a san juan kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.26 at 06:19:44(13057)
Think the ID is correct?
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
| +More |
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From: "Abrimaal Svartvinter" abrimaal at o2.pl> on 2005.06.28 at 05:28:44(13063)
Please send these photos to the Aroid ID Center
Regards
Marek
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:19 AM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Think the ID is correct?
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
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From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.06.28 at 16:34:59(13065)
Both IDs are absolutely correct in my opinion. This is the first time I have
seen the real P. bipinnatifidum identified as so in a long time!!!!
Best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
Think the ID is correct?
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
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From: "Russ" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2005.06.28 at 23:48:57(13068)
My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show at Fairchild last Sept
is that all lobes on the leaf are
extremely narrow and long, and is not the philodendron in this picture.
There was some controversy between
what I believe is now known as stenolobum and another plant then called
williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was described as having a leaf much
wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more blunt, and was considered
the species, while the plant now called stenolobum was thought to be a
hybrid of some kind.
Seems like last year or so someone straightened all this out, with the
magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
being identified as the species stenolobum, and I guess the less attractive
plant is still williamsii.
Someone help me with this. There were some great photos of the large
stenolobum that won a first in the
Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS site.
So, based on what I remember, my impression of the plant in the photo is
that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
Russ
| +More |
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From: a san juan kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.29 at 04:09:44(13069)
More pics from the NY Botanical Garden:
Labeled as P. bipinnatifidum:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
No label - P. Goeldii?
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_goeldii_1.htm
| +More |
Mislabeled? It was labeled P. undulatum, but it looks
like P. bipinnatifidum:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_undulatum_1.htm
--- Eduardo Goncalves wrote:
> Both IDs are absolutely correct in my opinion. This
> is the first time I have
> seen the real P. bipinnatifidum identified as so in
> a long time!!!!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Eduardo.
>
>
>
> Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
> Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
> Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
> Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
> CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
>
>
>
>
> >From: a san juan
> >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
>
> >To: Discussion of aroids
> >Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P.
> bipinnatifidum?
> >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Think the ID is correct?
> >
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
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> >_______________________________________________
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> >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
>
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> amigos.
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From: a san juan kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.29 at 04:31:54(13070)
Here it is:
http://www.aroid.org/show/show_images/show/212_jpg.html
I labeled the young plant here as P. stenolobum for
| +More | |
two reasons:
1. the length to width ratio of the larger leaves
especially are greater than 3, which fits P.
stenolobum rather than P. williamsii.
2. the petioles of this plant have a rather smooth
upper surface, which is indicative of P. stenolobum.
Both P. williamsii and P. stenolobum are currently
considered valid species.
--- Russ wrote:
> My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show
> at Fairchild last Sept
> is that all lobes on the leaf are
> extremely narrow and long, and is not the
> philodendron in this picture.
> There was some controversy between
> what I believe is now known as stenolobum and
> another plant then called
> williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was
> described as having a leaf much
> wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more
> blunt, and was considered
> the species, while the plant now called stenolobum
> was thought to be a
> hybrid of some kind.
>
> Seems like last year or so someone straightened all
> this out, with the
> magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
> being identified as the species stenolobum, and I
> guess the less attractive
> plant is still williamsii.
>
> Someone help me with this. There were some great
> photos of the large
> stenolobum that won a first in the
> Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS
> site.
>
> So, based on what I remember, my impression of the
> plant in the photo is
> that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
>
> Russ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
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From: a san juan kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.29 at 04:35:14(13071)
btw, the paper you are refering to is
E.G. Gon?alves and E.R. Salviani (2002). New species
and changing concepts of Philodendron subgenus
Meconostigma (Araceae). Aroideana 25:2-15
| +More | |
--- Russ wrote:
> My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show
> at Fairchild last Sept
> is that all lobes on the leaf are
> extremely narrow and long, and is not the
> philodendron in this picture.
> There was some controversy between
> what I believe is now known as stenolobum and
> another plant then called
> williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was
> described as having a leaf much
> wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more
> blunt, and was considered
> the species, while the plant now called stenolobum
> was thought to be a
> hybrid of some kind.
>
> Seems like last year or so someone straightened all
> this out, with the
> magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
> being identified as the species stenolobum, and I
> guess the less attractive
> plant is still williamsii.
>
> Someone help me with this. There were some great
> photos of the large
> stenolobum that won a first in the
> Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS
> site.
>
> So, based on what I remember, my impression of the
> plant in the photo is
> that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
>
> Russ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
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|
From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.06.29 at 14:35:25(13076)
Dear Russ,
Please, forget the name P. williamsii. The real P. williamsii from
Bahia state (Brazi)l has wide leaves (more or less similar to P. speciosum)
and has NOTHING to do with P. stenolobum. This confusion have started a long
time ago, I don?t know why. I have collected many different populations of
P. stenolobum in the wild, and there is a wide variability in leaf widht but
they are always much narrower than any other sagittate leaf self header
Philodendron (subg. Meconostigma).
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:48:57 -0400
My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show at Fairchild last Sept
is that all lobes on the leaf are
extremely narrow and long, and is not the philodendron in this picture.
There was some controversy between
what I believe is now known as stenolobum and another plant then called
williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was described as having a leaf
much
wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more blunt, and was considered
the species, while the plant now called stenolobum was thought to be a
hybrid of some kind.
Seems like last year or so someone straightened all this out, with the
magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
being identified as the species stenolobum, and I guess the less attractive
plant is still williamsii.
Someone help me with this. There were some great photos of the large
stenolobum that won a first in the
Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS site.
So, based on what I remember, my impression of the plant in the photo is
that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
Russ
_______________________________________________
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Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos.
http://messenger.msn.com.br
_______________________________________________
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|
|
From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.06.29 at 14:38:22(13077)
Number 1 and 3 are both P. bipinnatifidum
Number 2 is really P. goeldii
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:09:44 -0700 (PDT)
More pics from the NY Botanical Garden:
Labeled as P. bipinnatifidum:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
No label - P. Goeldii?
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_goeldii_1.htm
Mislabeled? It was labeled P. undulatum, but it looks
like P. bipinnatifidum:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_undulatum_1.htm
--- Eduardo Goncalves wrote:
> Both IDs are absolutely correct in my opinion. This
> is the first time I have
> seen the real P. bipinnatifidum identified as so in
> a long time!!!!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Eduardo.
>
>
>
> Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
> Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
> Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
> Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
> CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
>
>
>
>
> >From: a san juan
> >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
>
> >To: Discussion of aroids
> >Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P.
> bipinnatifidum?
> >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Think the ID is correct?
> >
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
> >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >_______________________________________________
> >Aroid-l mailing list
> >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus
> amigos.
> http://messenger.msn.com.br
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
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From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org on 2005.06.30 at 00:47:05(13079)
Title: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Dear Eduardo:
I suppose that any plant that I have in cultivation would fall into this category. Is most of the material that has been called P. williamsii now to be called P. stenolobum?
Tom
| +More |
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:35 AM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Dear Russ,
Please, forget the name P. williamsii. The real P. williamsii from
Bahia state (Brazi)l has wide leaves (more or less similar to P. speciosum)
and has NOTHING to do with P. stenolobum. This confusion have started a long
time ago, I don?t know why. I have collected many different populations of
P. stenolobum in the wild, and there is a wide variability in leaf widht but
they are always much narrower than any other sagittate leaf self header
Philodendron (subg. Meconostigma).
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga - DF, BRAZIL.
>From: "Russ"
>Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
>To: "Discussion of aroids"
>Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
>Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:48:57 -0400
>
>My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show at Fairchild last Sept
>is that all lobes on the leaf are
>extremely narrow and long, and is not the philodendron in this picture.
>There was some controversy between
>what I believe is now known as stenolobum and another plant then called
>williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was described as having a leaf
>much
>wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more blunt, and was considered
>the species, while the plant now called stenolobum was thought to be a
>hybrid of some kind.
>
>Seems like last year or so someone straightened all this out, with the
>magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
>being identified as the species stenolobum, and I guess the less attractive
>plant is still williamsii.
>
>Someone help me with this. There were some great photos of the large
>stenolobum that won a first in the
>Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS site.
>
>So, based on what I remember, my impression of the plant in the photo is
>that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
>
>Russ
>
>_______________________________________________
>Aroid-l mailing list
>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus amigos.
http://messenger.msn.com.br
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
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Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
|
|
From: a san juan kalim1998 at yahoo.com> on 2005.06.30 at 02:48:34(13080)
Two interesting aroids that I also saw in NY Botanical
Garden, both unlabeled or unidentified.
The first one is a Meconostigma, but one I am not
familiar with.
| +More |
The second is probably not of this subgenus, but it is
interesting because i found it in the Fern area, where
it is very humid and somewhat colder, and I noticed
its stem had been literally engulfed with moss(?),
lichen(?)...
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_sp_1.htm
--- Eduardo Goncalves wrote:
> Both IDs are absolutely correct in my opinion. This
> is the first time I have
> seen the real P. bipinnatifidum identified as so in
> a long time!!!!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Eduardo.
>
>
>
> Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
> Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
> Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
> Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
> CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
>
>
>
>
> >From: a san juan
> >Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
>
> >To: Discussion of aroids
> >Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P.
> bipinnatifidum?
> >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Think the ID is correct?
> >
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_stenolobum_1.htm
>
>http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/p_bipinnatifidum_1.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
> >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >_______________________________________________
> >Aroid-l mailing list
> >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> MSN Messenger: instale gr?tis e converse com seus
> amigos.
> http://messenger.msn.com.br
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
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|
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From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2005.06.30 at 20:18:27(13083)
Dear Tom,
All horticultural "P. williamsii" is now P. stenolobum. The real P.
williamsii is a completely different species, occurring in coastal Bahia
state and is rather rare. I don?t have it in cultivation and I have never
seen a living specimen in any collection I have visited or It looks like a
P. speciosum (or like a huge P. corcovadense), but is somewhat smaller in
overall dimensions. I have collected it twice in southern Bahia and I have
seen a few more collections in Herbarium. Philodendron stenolobum is only
known from Espirito Santo state and is much more common, being found by me
in many different localities. I don?t know when or when the confusion began,
but P. stenolobum is called P. williamsii in lots of old publications
(including Graf?s Exotica). Simon in his revision of Philodendron
Meconostigma included P. stenolobum specimens in P. williamsii, probably
because he hadn?t enough good material of P. stenolobum to be sure it was a
different thing.
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
| +More |
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL.
Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:47:05 -0500
Dear Eduardo:
I suppose that any plant that I have in cultivation would fall into
this category. Is most of the material that has been called P. williamsii
now to be called P. stenolobum?
Tom
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:35 AM
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
Dear Russ,
Please, forget the name P. williamsii. The real P. williamsii from
Bahia state (Brazi)l has wide leaves (more or less similar to P. speciosum)
and has NOTHING to do with P. stenolobum. This confusion have started a
long
time ago, I don?t know why. I have collected many different populations of
P. stenolobum in the wild, and there is a wide variability in leaf widht
but
they are always much narrower than any other sagittate leaf self header
Philodendron (subg. Meconostigma).
Very best wishes,
Eduardo.
Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves
Universidade Catolica de Brasilia
Curso de Ciencias Biologicas
Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC
CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga - DF, BRAZIL.
>From: "Russ"
>Reply-To: Discussion of aroids
>To: "Discussion of aroids"
>Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum and P. bipinnatifidum?
>Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:48:57 -0400
>
>My recollection of P. stenolobum from the IAS show at Fairchild last
Sept
>is that all lobes on the leaf are
>extremely narrow and long, and is not the philodendron in this picture.
>There was some controversy between
>what I believe is now known as stenolobum and another plant then called
>williamsii. P. williamsii, at that time was described as having a leaf
>much
>wider in all parts, tips of all lobes were more blunt, and was considered
>the species, while the plant now called stenolobum was thought to be a
>hybrid of some kind.
>
>Seems like last year or so someone straightened all this out, with the
>magnificently regal narrow leaved plant
>being identified as the species stenolobum, and I guess the less
attractive
>plant is still williamsii.
>
>Someone help me with this. There were some great photos of the large
>stenolobum that won a first in the
>Fairchild show, but I couldn't find them at IAS site.
>
>So, based on what I remember, my impression of the plant in the photo is
>that it looks more like williamsii than stenolobum.
>
>Russ
>
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