Sauromatums, hardy and giant

From: Steve Marak samarak at gizmoworks.com> on 2005.07.06 at 06:43:34(13134) I've grown the usual Typhonium/Sauromatum venosum outdoors here in NW Arkansas for 15+ years now with no special care or winter protection (and little or no supplmental water in summer for that matter) and agree with Deni - tough as old boots. We usually see +38 C days in summer, often with no rain for weeks and, very rarely, -28 C as an overnight winter low with no snow cover but lots of winter rain. I have inflorescences and seed set every year. I've got a couple of questions about the giant form, though, which I only acquired a year ago from a friend in a somewhat milder climate - has anyone tested its hardiness? Is it as tough as the "common" variety? Also, does anyone know the background on the giant form? Are we talking one clone, or are there several large clones in cultivation? Is it/are they from a distinct area? Is it/are they just genetically large diploids, or is there some polyploidy going on? Has anyone had seed set on the/a giant form, and if so was it viable? (Yes, I know with that level of offset production no one needs to grow sauromatum from seed, but surely someone has tried just from academic curiosity...) Steve +More -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdelights.com> on 2005.07.06 at 11:16:09(13138) Steve: Great question about the giant form of Sauromatum. We coined the term after measuring plants that we had ordered from an Indian Nursery several years ago. There were differences in the size of the leaf, the edge of the leaf, the size of the flower, the type of stem pattern, etc. We thought that these would come true from seed, but after 3 years, we find this is not the case and have stopped selling them for now. You can see still see photos on our website. It is possible that they are cross pollinating with the normal types in our garden. It is my assumption that they come from some part of India, but I have been to this region to study the plants in the wild. In our garden, the giant ones are astonishing. I guess I will have to resort to tissue culture. I hope someone who has studied these in the wild will comment further. +More At 01:43 AM 7/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: >I've grown the usual Typhonium/Sauromatum venosum outdoors here in NW Arkansas >for 15+ years now with no special care or winter protection (and little or no >supplmental water in summer for that matter) and agree with Deni - tough as old >boots. We usually see +38 C days in summer, often with no rain for weeks and, >very rarely, -28 C as an overnight winter low with no snow cover but lots of >winter rain. I have inflorescences and seed set every year. > >I've got a couple of questions about the giant form, though, which I only >acquired a year ago from a friend in a somewhat milder climate - has anyone >tested its hardiness? Is it as tough as the "common" variety? > >Also, does anyone know the background on the giant form? Are we talking one >clone, or are there several large clones in cultivation? Is it/are they from a >distinct area? Is it/are they just genetically large diploids, or is there some >polyploidy going on? Has anyone had seed set on the/a giant form, and if >so was it viable? (Yes, I know with that level of offset production no one >needs to grow sauromatum from seed, but surely someone has tried just from >academic curiosity...) > >Steve > >-- Steve Marak >-- samarak@gizmoworks.com >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2005.07.06 at 18:08:24(13141) I grow the giant form of Thyphonium venosum (actually forms: one has a stem with bare a dot, another is about 50% "dotted" and still another is more dark than light green. All are over 3.5 to 4 feet. I am in 7a. We see 38-40 C. (around 100 F.) highs and to -24 C. (-12 F.) rare lows. Average lows are -9 C. (15 F.). The potted ones go into the cool greenhouse in dry soil. Most are in the ground (6 inches deep). Here the soil never freezes to that depth. They get no protection. These things are weeds growing all over the garden in unexpected places. I think the chipmunks eat the seeds and spread them all over. Hosta Hill is at 1188 feet AMSL, so is exposed to higher winds and late freezes but that does not seem to bother them. I know of a gardener in North Georgia who planted some of my tubers and it is reliably hardy up there in the mountains at elevation 2800 feet AMSL (USDA zone 6a). Like I say, It is a weed that should not be turned loose in wild areas. George +More W. George Schmid Hosta Hill - Tucker Georgia USA Zone 7a - 1188 feet AMSL 84-12'-30" West_33-51' North Outgoing e-mail virus checked by NAV ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 02:43 Subject: [Aroid-l] Sauromatums, hardy and giant _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Steve Marak samarak at gizmoworks.com> on 2005.07.07 at 03:50:29(13143) Thanks Tony and George for the information on the giant form(s). As usual, I get a few answers and suddenly I have more questions. But for another time. George, the seed on my plants is viable, but doesn't seem to germinate in the garden, or at least I've never found a plant that couldn't have plausibly been an offset. The biggest problem I have with them is moving them. I've quit moving them, because when I do never get all the offsets and just wind up with them in one more place. But I like the effect of the leaves, and of course it is an aroid, so I mostly just leave them. Don't suppose anyone has a dwarf form, do they? Steve +More -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdelights.com> on 2005.07.07 at 11:10:29(13145) Steve: We grow lots of sauromatum from seed and had the most unusual thing last year...3 dwarf seedlings that looked like crosses with helicodiscerous (sp). I planted one out thinking it would grow out of it, but instead it looks more like a cross this year. I won't know for sure until I see a flower, but this is one strange plant. +More At 10:50 PM 7/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks Tony and George for the information on the giant form(s). As usual, I >get a few answers and suddenly I have more questions. But for another time. > >George, the seed on my plants is viable, but doesn't seem to germinate in the >garden, or at least I've never found a plant that couldn't have plausibly been >an offset. The biggest problem I have with them is moving them. I've quit >moving them, because when I do never get all the offsets and just wind up with >them in one more place. But I like the effect of the leaves, and of course it >is an aroid, so I mostly just leave them. > >Don't suppose anyone has a dwarf form, do they? > >Steve > >-- Steve Marak >-- samarak@gizmoworks.com >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2005.07.07 at 14:33:02(13146) Steve, I have noticed that too. There are numerous offsets, but on close examination, some of the plantlets around a mother plant may originate from seeds. As you know the infructescence of this taxon is very close to the ground and the seeds can be scattered by larger insects or (as in my case) by squirrels, chipmunks and birds. Some of the small plants I have dug up were nowhere near a fruiting plant and were simply small seedlings. I used to collect them, pot them and grow them on. Nowadays I have so many, I just pull them like a weed (the tiny tuber is usually near the ground surface) and discard them. Many I leave in place and let them grow into mature plants, because they are hardy, undemanding, and attractive. Obviously, mature plants to make numerous offsets and develop into colonies. See if you can find a solitary seedling somewhere, which may indicate seed dispersion. I have never seen a dwarf form of Typhonium venosum. They all develop into 30 in (76 cm) to 48 in (1.2 m) mature specimens. W. George Schmid +More Hosta Hill - Tucker Georgia USA Zone 7a - 1188 feet AMSL 84-12'-30" West_33-51' North Outgoing e-mail virus checked by NAV ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 23:50 Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Sauromatums, hardy and giant > Thanks Tony and George for the information on the giant form(s). As usual, I > get a few answers and suddenly I have more questions. But for another time. > > George, the seed on my plants is viable, but doesn't seem to germinate in the > garden, or at least I've never found a plant that couldn't have plausibly been > an offset. The biggest problem I have with them is moving them. I've quit > moving them, because when I do never get all the offsets and just wind up with > them in one more place. But I like the effect of the leaves, and of course it > is an aroid, so I mostly just leave them. > > Don't suppose anyone has a dwarf form, do they? _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Leo A. Martin" leo1010 at attglobal.net> on 2005.07.08 at 00:32:42(13151) One wag wrote Also remember these things are spider mite magnets. Another replied +More I have grown Typhonium venosum [in southern Georgia] for 25 years > and never see spider mites on them. The first wag rereplied I live in Phoenix, with very low humidity most of the year. Spider mites are a problem with quite a few plant families originating in more humid climates. You live in Georgia, where during times of active Typhonium growth the humidity is often so high it is possible to grow mildew and algae on clean glass. Leo _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2005.07.08 at 19:39:53(13157) Leo, Maybe your mites like those juicy strangers from Georgia. BTW, I'm in north central Ga, 30 miles northeast from Five Points in Hotlanta as the crow flies. It is not just the humidity, but we just had 7 inches of rain in two days from TS Cindy and Dennis is on the way, this one a real hurricane. Now that is what I call humidity. You can swim in it. It might just be too humid for the mites in these parts. George W. George Schmid +More Hosta Hill - Tucker Georgia USA Zone 7a - 1188 feet AMSL 84-12'-30" West_33-51' North Outgoing e-mail virus checked by NAV ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 20:32 Subject: [Aroid-l] Re: Sauromatums, hardy and giant > One wag wrote _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "David S." maui4me at charter.net> on 2005.07.10 at 06:21:04(13164) Tony, don't these giants produce scads of offsets like the more common version? David Sizemore +More Kingsport, TN Zone 6a ----- Original Message ----- To: "Discussion of aroids" Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Sauromatums, hardy and giant > Steve: > > Great question about the giant form of Sauromatum. We coined the term > after measuring plants that we had ordered from an Indian Nursery several > years ago. There were differences in the size of the leaf, the edge of the > leaf, the size of the flower, the type of stem pattern, etc. We thought > that these would come true from seed, but after 3 years, we find this is > not the case and have stopped selling them for now. You can see still see > photos on our website. It is possible that they are cross pollinating with > the normal types in our garden. It is my assumption that they come from > some part of India, but I have been to this region to study the plants in > the wild. In our garden, the giant ones are astonishing. I guess I will > have to resort to tissue culture. I hope someone who has studied these in > the wild will comment further. > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, NC 27603 USA > Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F > Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdel.com > phone 919 772-4794 > fax 919 772-4752 > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least > three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Tony Avent tony at plantdelights.com> on 2005.07.11 at 11:28:49(13168) David: The giant sauromatum's do offset, but at a much slower rate than the typical species. +More At 02:21 AM 7/10/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Tony, don't these giants produce scads of offsets like the more common >version? > >David Sizemore >Kingsport, TN >Zone 6a > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Avent" >To: "Discussion of aroids" >Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 7:16 AM >Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Sauromatums, hardy and giant > > >> Steve: >> >> Great question about the giant form of Sauromatum. We coined the term >> after measuring plants that we had ordered from an Indian Nursery several >> years ago. There were differences in the size of the leaf, the edge of >the >> leaf, the size of the flower, the type of stem pattern, etc. We thought >> that these would come true from seed, but after 3 years, we find this is >> not the case and have stopped selling them for now. You can see still see >> photos on our website. It is possible that they are cross pollinating with >> the normal types in our garden. It is my assumption that they come from >> some part of India, but I have been to this region to study the plants in >> the wild. In our garden, the giant ones are astonishing. I guess I will >> have to resort to tissue culture. I hope someone who has studied these in >> the wild will comment further. >> >> Tony Avent >> Plant Delights Nursery @ >> Juniper Level Botanic Garden >> 9241 Sauls Road >> Raleigh, NC 27603 USA >> Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F >> Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F >> USDA Hardiness Zone 7b >> email tony@plantdelights.com >> website http://www.plantdel.com >> phone 919 772-4794 >> fax 919 772-4752 >> "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least >> three times" - Avent > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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