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  Selling plants on the aroid website??????
From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2005.10.31 at 21:36:53(13481)
I am not sure if the aroid society still has a online board were they
discuss stuff like this. When I first joined they allowed me on. At that
time I did not quite grasp it's purpose. If their is still a board I
would like to join back I think I could throw in a few good suggestions
if they like.

From: "Donna McGraw" donnamcg at swbell.net> on 2005.11.01 at 04:09:02(13483)
Brian, I think you have a good idea there - I would participate.

----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:36 PM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Selling plants on the aroid website??????

From: Ken Mosher ken at spatulacity.com> on 2005.11.01 at 05:51:07(13484)
Hi Brian,

I think one of your last statements probably settles the matter; "it
will not be an easy task." You understate, creating an auction site is a
huge task, and handling the money makes it even harder.

eBay has spent many millions of dollars just on the functionality of
their site, and millions more to ensure security and confidentiality.
The best we can probably do would be to improve the trading part of the
site. I haven't been there in a while so I don't have any suggestions
for improvements right now.

The trick to having an all-volunteer web site like aroid.org work well
is to automate as much as possible. The automation takes the burden off
the webmaster (or other moderators) by allowing the work to be spread
across many people. (As an example, wouldn't it be great if the group
that maintains all the genus/species listings with photos had a
web-based interface for managing those entries? It would take a lot of
work off the hands of the webmaster. But the entire thing would have to
move from the world of static HTML to being database driven.)

Of course, the automation takes a lot of effort up-front by someone. And
then if that person can't maintain it after its creation, when it breaks
or needs enhancement (they always do) then somebody has to dive into
another person's programming. That's always a challenge!

I think is speaks volumes that a large web site like aroid.org works at
all while being run by volunteer(s). I'm not sure who helps Albert, if
anyone, but every person who references our web site owes Albert, past
webmasters and all the content providers a huge debt of gratitude. 95%
of our members probably don't know how much work it takes.

-Ken Mosher

From: "Bryant, Susan L." SLBryant at scj.com> on 2005.11.01 at 13:17:17(13486)
Brian I think that is a great idea, and I agree with your assessment
that it will not be easy to get up and running. I also agree this could
bring in many new members and create higher visibility for the IAS and

From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2005.11.02 at 18:39:53(13493)
I second the discussion presented by Ken. The AHostaS talked about doing
that and it turned out to be too much work by too few people. The AHS is now
using auctions, but takes place at the national as well as regional
meetings. It has 8 regions and dozens of local societies. I realize the IAS
is not that large and that may not as yet be feasible. Running a bidding
site is a humongous job. George

W. George Schmid

From: Baumfarn Webmaster webmaster at baumfarn.at> on 2005.11.02 at 18:57:27(13494)
It would be beneficial to the IAS but I doubt if it would be beneficial
to the members too. Esspecially for those living overseas (Europe)
I'm still no member of the IAS 'cause I would never be able to
participates to the meetings, most of them held in US. What other
benefits there are? Aroideana, it's cheaper do buy single issues. Oh
yes, there's a newsletter too, but what's in it? Will just this
newsleter justify the membership fee? I doubt. Allthough it should be
very important holding it that secret.
Also many other offerings are not reachable because due to the different
time zones, messages receive me sometimes with delays of several hours.


From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2005.11.02 at 22:44:44(13496)
To add to your list Susan is Eggbid, for those interested in fowl.
here's the link

From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2005.11.02 at 22:50:44(13497)
I think you truly under estimate the aroid society. A quick search on
Yahoo or Google will bring up tons of programs for building your own
automated auction site. Most are under 100.00 dollars. I doubt it would
be that big of a burden, a monitor to view the auctions so nothing
inappropriate is up and that should about do it. People put up their own
auctions with pics and descriptions. I don't see any problems with that.
I would monitor it if it's that big a deal?
From: Ken Mosher ken at spatulacity.com> on 2005.11.03 at 06:34:32(13499)
Hey, don't let my experience discourage anyone from taking on this project!

Brian has offered to do the ongoing monitoring of auctions for the rest
of time. Which server-side web developer out there is willing to
evaluate 3 to 5 of the tons of programs that cost under $100 to see
which ones suck and which ones are great?

Oh, wait, until the webmaster declares whether we must use ASP, or PHP
or JSP we can't do the evaluation. Which backend database will our host
support? That will narrow down those tons of programs to a much smaller
number. Now someone has to find a good product from that reduced pool.
Only choose a product that's been out for at least 3 years and has 100
installations - pool is even smaller. Only choose a product that has an
active support forum so when things go wrong we can fix them. Pool got
even smaller.

From: Albert Huntington balberth at yahoo.com> on 2005.11.04 at 15:48:44(13503)

The IAS Board of Directors will be discussing this and some
other related related proposals. I think we all agree that it's
a complicated thing that could easily fail, and there are some
issues about billing that will require a bit of thought. It's
going to, at the very least, require some research to determine
if it would get used and pay for itself.

Anyway, we're thinking about it.


From: Albert Huntington balberth at yahoo.com> on 2005.11.04 at 16:15:28(13504)
Peter Wrote:
>I'm still no member of the IAS ... What other benefits there

From: EGoldfluss at aol.com on 2005.11.04 at 16:26:27(13505)
I buy Aroids on Ebay all the time. I'm always looking for new sources
and would love to see what divisions members offer.
From: "StroWi at t-online.de" StroWi at t-online.de> on 2005.11.04 at 17:37:23(13507)

if I am not wrong, the trading section that was run on the aroid website
was closed in the meantime. I do not know the reasons.

Why not just reopen it instead of setting up an auction platform?

An auction platform might might have the advantage that fees promote the
IAS instead of increasing the income of ebay.

However, looking back at the fate of the trading section, I doubt that
an action platform will be any better.

Good growing,

From: plantguy at zoominternet.net> on 2005.11.05 at 04:11:35(13510)
Well, ever since I read the original post from Brian I've been sort of
contemplating the idea put forth. I agree with Ken that this is a very
complex undertaking that likely will require a full-time employee that can
oversee all aspects of the auction business. Of course, the IAS needs to
decide whether their ambition is to become a business with the long-term
goal of furthering education with respect to aroids. I assume that the IAS
is a non-profit organization and so the hoped for wind-fall should be well
thought out in advance. If their are extra monies then who is going to
review the grant proposals that come in for exploration?? What sort of
format would be implemented to approve applications for monies?? I would
also hope that the IAS dues are not used for advertising purposes. While I
am considering joining the IAS as I benefit from the aroid-l and info
disseminated I would not join if I felt that my dues were being used to
advertise an auction house. Obviously, the money raised form the auctions
culd be used for that purpose. Also, if the IAS is taking an active role in
advertising the business end of things then they would seem to be tacitly
approving what is being sold. This is a critical point as it goes to
credibility. In my field of work (professor of Cell Biology and Physiology)
credibility is paramount and so it should be for any organization that is
attempting to educate the public at large. Having said that, I wonder who
would be responsible for policing the auctions? We have all seen the
auctions where a bulbifer bulbil is advertised as rare just because the
petiole is supposedly unique when of course it is not at all unique and the
seller must surely know that. How about an Amorph. konjac advertised as
being "rare"! Would the IAS wish to promote such a message with an auction
that they have advertised to draw people in?? If education is the goal of
the IAS, which I feel confident it is, then auctions being promoted by the
IAS should hopefully meet the same standard as the rest of the information
on the wonderful site that has been developed to date. I know that if I
were purchasing from such a site I would expect a correctly IDed plant that
is promoted fairly and not with an ostentatious, over the top, gimmic-laden,
ebay-ish bunch of nonsense. Obviously, I do not see this as simply an ebay
competitor. On ebay everyone must surely know that it is buyer beware,
whereas when you are purchasing an aroid from an aroid society promoted web
site I would sincerely hope that the standard would be far, far higher.
While the notion presented has merit, I clearly feel that one of the last
things to be considered is how much money can be made. Rather, I personally
feel that the education mission and credibility of the wonderful IAS
organization should be considered in terms of how it may be raised up or
diminished by such a venture. If a side benfit is making extra money that
can be used to further this mission then so be it, but more money at the
cost of credibility is of no consequence and in fact rather damaging.

I may be completely off base (not atypical), but I just felt after givng
this some thought that the IAS should consider something more than the
work-load and money that can be made which has dominated the posts to date.
Obviously, I sell a few different aroids on ebay, via my web site and via
communications with aroid geeks like myself and am not opposed to the
notion. I just feel that the members of the IAS should consider carefully
what sort of foot they want to put forward from the initial guiding
principles of education before venturing forth with a business venture that
will directly impact on the image of the society either favorably or the
less favorable possibility.

From: Tom philofan at philodendron.org> on 2005.11.05 at 07:19:01(13511)
I appreciate Brian's idea and agree with the spirit of it. However, from experience (I develop sites for a living), I know the amount of work involved just with static web sites. Adding the dynamic component in is not a cheap endeavor, if it is to be done right.I'd like to suggest a simpler solution I am setting up for our rainforest organization: set up your eBay auctions to donate in part or in full, to the non-profit of your choice. How about donating to IAS in your next auction? Isn't IAS a non-profit?You can read details here:?http://givingworks.ebay.com/sell/It may be possible to build an IAS page that lists current auctions with an API or simply link to all auctions that benefit IAS.Note that a $10 minimum is required per donation.?When you sell an item with eBay Giving Works and donate at least 90% of the final sale price to a certified nonprofit, eBay will donate the Insertion and Final Value Fees you paid to the organization you selected within your listing.That's one nice way to get rid of our ext
ra plants.IAS needs to be "certified", but once that happens, we can all donate to IAS in our future auctions.-Tom Vincze_______________________________________________
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From: Don Martinson llmen at wi.rr.com> on 2005.11.06 at 18:43:04(13514)
This sounds like a much better idea. Ebay is already set up with
handy features for both buyer and seller. Why take the time and
expense to reinvent the wheel?

Don Martinson

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