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 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  Philodendron glaucophyllum
From: "Abrimaal" abrimaal at wp.pl> on 2006.05.15 at 14:08:13(14191)
Hello,

Is it a "good" species - Ph. glaucophyllum? I
cannot find it anywhere in taxonomic databases.

Greetings

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.15 at 15:41:50(14192)
P. glaucophyllum is definately a recognized specie. I
bought mine from a grower in Hawaii who had her plant identified by a recognized
botanist (name well known to most people on this site, I just won't use it
without his permission). You can read my description of the plant on my
website at:

http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Philodendron%20glaucophyllum%20pc.html

I've found the plant easy to grow and easy to take cuttings as
well. There is also a similar plant which is not the same specie but looks
an aweful lot like P. glaucophyllum. That plant is P. elongatum and can
also be found on my website.

Enjoy either!

Steve Lucas

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From: "Sherry Gates" TheTropix at msn.com> on 2006.05.15 at 16:34:44(14195)
Hi Marek, How are ya doing? I am not an expert on anything, unlike most of you in the Aroid list. However, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a 'good' species re: Ph. glaucophyllum. Do you mean a genuine species name or a good plant to grow? As far as I can tell, it's both! lol I have a few, including some that I aquired recently, and was told these new ones were a hybrid called 'Moon Glow'. The lady that owns the nursery said she has had these for several years. I can't find anything about that name, and it could be a name that was made up somewhere along the way, although it's bigger (older?) and has a prettier shape (maturity?) than the other glaucophyllums I have, which I admit are younger than the 'Moon Glow' ones. I've seen some that were the same size, height-wise, but one will have larger, shaplier leaves than the other. I haven't been able to find any information on
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From: "Abrimaal" abrimaal at wp.pl> on 2006.05.15 at 17:19:08(14196)
Well, if it is, can anyone tell me who described it
and in what year?

Marek

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From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.05.15 at 21:49:09(14198)
Hi Steve

The name Philodendron glaucophyllum
has not been published (as far as I am able to tell - Tom?)

Pete

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From: "Michael Pascall" mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2006.05.15 at 22:29:56(14199)
This hybrid maybe the one David Burnett did many years ago , he crossed P.
imbe variegata with glaucophyllum , I wrote about it and showed pictures
in a newsletter .

Michael Pascall,

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.16 at 03:28:52(14200)
Well, I stand corrected. That's what I get for believing
"reliable sources". I contacted Dr. Tom Croat today regarding this plant
and my desription this is his reply: "Steve: There is no such a thing as Philodendron glaucophyllum.
That was a made up but unpublished name for P. hastatum Engler, a species
from the area of Rio de Janiero."

Tom

We are in the process of correcting our listing on my website
regarding this plant right now.

Steve Lucas

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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.05.16 at 03:46:40(14201)
Peter: You are correct. It is just a made
up name for P. hastatum (P. elongatum) from the area of Rio de Janiero.

Tom

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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.05.16 at 03:48:01(14202)
Steve: There is also so just name as P. mandianum
(or whatever you were calling that thing that looks like P. smithii).

Tom

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From: "Bluesea" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2006.05.16 at 03:57:01(14203)
So obviously the silver leaved Philodendron in
the picture and which we are discussing is not P. hastatum. Perhaps simply
for ease of discussion, could we call this
plant P. glaucophyllum Hort, since it is already
known by that name in 'the trade'.

Russ

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.16 at 04:12:40(14204)
Yep, Tom Croat and I have been after this one most of the
evening. And I stand corrected and have my website designer making the
changes as per Tom's corrections right now.

Steve Lucas

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From: "Bluesea" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2006.05.16 at 04:21:55(14205)
Well Steve, per our private discussion as to the
true identity of the elusive species P. mandaianum, or hybrid P. X 'Mandaianum',
the latter of which is pictured and described in Exotica and Tropica
(Graf), and other sources as well, Tom's reply of 'no such name' is most
interesting.

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From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.05.16 at 04:49:55(14206)
There are a lot of rules governing the publication
of species and culton names and although to folks not regularly describing novel
names these rules may seem arcane in fact such rules are vital since they
prevent the uncontrolled proliferation of names and all the subsequent confusion
that will occur; especially important in taxonomically large horticulturally
important genera such as Philodendron.

When Tom says that there is no such name, he
means that the name is not formally (validly & effectively) published.

Pete

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.16 at 06:49:39(14207)
It seems the more I research these things the more confusing
the whole thing becomes. I'm sure you've been there too, but it appears
that old favorites whom I've carefully researched are falling off the shelf
(name wise) in droves! Oh well, what would life be if we didn't have to
keep searching and searching for a name.

Steve Lucas

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.05.16 at 06:54:32(14208)
At 09:21 PM 5/15/2006, you wrote:

Well Steve, per our private
discussion as to the true identity of the elusive species P. mandaianum,
or hybrid P. X 'Mandaianum', the latter of which is pictured and
described in Exotica and Tropica (Graf), and other sources as well, Tom's
reply of 'no such name' is most interesting.
Mr Graf took peoples' names and wrote them down, and as far as I know did
not take it any further than that. In no way to I criticize him, i think
EXOTICA is the mother of the interest in RARE PLANTS in the USA. I also
knew immediately what you meant by phil glaucophyllum since i had heard
it applied to THAT PLANT for ages. When graf came here to photograph some
bamboo, we told him this name on it was just what it was being called
NOW, and we fully expected it to be a temporary name, and due to be
changed in the very near future, and he did not seem concerned, concerned
ONLY with getting the grove on film.
NOBODY worships accurate taxonomy more than I do, by the way. My greatest
contribution to it is removing wrong labels, since i do not name species.
i am relieved to report that this is NOT MY JOB! I do use various
punctuation marks to indicate a name in current usage has not been
thoroughly vetted. The one thing I do not do is go on the warpath
every time i see a wrong name, unless it is something like a person
putting a patent and a new name on a plant previously published by my
good self. because that is just plain ICKY.
And I will follow up on the latest news in taxonomy and change my
labels.
Of all the plants I grow, i know least about the names of Aroids than all
the others. I am totally dependent on youse guys.
hermine

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From: aroids at numericable.fr on 2006.05.16 at 08:50:55(14209)
Dear Marek and Steve,

Tom Croat might confirm this but I think that the plant
cultivated as Philodendron glaucophyllum is P. hastatum. P.
elongatum is also a synonym of P. hastatum ...

With best regards,

David

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From: "Abrimaal" abrimaal at wp.pl> on 2006.05.16 at 11:08:29(14210)
So can we call this plant Philodendron hastatum
'Glaucophyllum'? It differs from the regular ph. hastatum in
blueish leaves.

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.16 at 16:00:52(14211)
That is basically what Tom said to me last evening in both personal emails
and an email to the group. P. hastatum is the published name for plants
sometimes called P. glaucophyllum and P. elongatum. I've made corrections
on my website in regard to both.

Steve Lucas

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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.05.16 at 16:05:49(14212)
David: You have it right.

Tom

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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.05.16 at 16:08:30(14213)
Hermine: When I say there is no such name I am only referring to
the fact that it is not published to my knowledge. If it is not published
and is not likely to be published then so are as I am concerned it is not
official.

Tom

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From: "W. George Schmid" hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2006.05.16 at 16:57:23(14215)
To
Wit:
Well Steve, per our private
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From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2006.05.16 at 18:06:43(14216)
Dear all,

Philodendron hastatum is also bluish in nature, mainly when they are
young. Most individuals are less bluish when they are flowering adult
individuals, but I have seen adult P. hastatum in the nature with completely
bluish leaves. No need for a new name, mainly considering that it is the
normal wild pattern. Adding a new superfluous name will only make people
sell the same thing with a new price, unless we have plain green P. hastatum
available.

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.05.17 at 06:22:55(14217)
Hermine: When
I say there is no such name I am only referring to the fact that it is
not published to my knowledge. If it is not published and is not
likely to be published then so are as I am concerned it is not official.

Tom

and you won't get any disagreement from me.
hermine

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From: "Michael Pascall" mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2006.05.17 at 13:16:42(14218)
I recvd.a cutting of Philo. elongatum from Neil Crafter many years ago , so
have no doubts it is correctly named ,it is very green . I flowerd it 2
years ago and took many pictures . The leaf is somewhat longer than P.
hastatum . Eduardo can I send you and/or Tom some of the pix. for
verification ?

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.05.17 at 19:56:36(14220)
I can only speak for myself. I'm a certified plant nut
but I don't have the technical training, expertise or scientific knowledge to
argue with either of two of the world's best known plant experts. An old
phrase comes to mind: A rose by any other name is still a rose.
In this case, Philodendron hastatum by any other name is still
Philodendron hastatum. I would have sworn I could see differences
in P. hastatum, P. elongatum, and P. glaucophyllum. But I yield
to those with the expertise to make the scientific call.

Steve Lucas

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