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  Unknown Philo from hawaii
From: "Bluesea" chammer at cfl.rr.com> on 2006.08.10 at 23:49:44(14493)
OK Aroidnuts, I'm really confused here. Philodendron scandens is
now P. hederaceum. But according to Dr Croat (via information from Steve
Lucas), the species hederaceum PLUS v. miduhoi PLUS v. micans are
now ALL just called P. hederaceum! No more variety
names to separate and distinguish
the two different old varieties from the species? And there ARE
physical differences.

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.08.22 at 08:55:26(14541)
I received cuttings of an unusual philo from a plant
collecting friend in Hawaii. She found this plant near the east coast of
Oahu and had never seen the plant before. I planted my cuttings in May,
2006 and they have grown quickly. I now have 10 leaves, the
largest of which is now 7 1/2 inches (19cm) and the plant has climbed over 2
feet (64cm). New leaves appear weekly. The underside of each leaf is
a pale burgundy and the face of the leaf has a velvet texture. Each leaf
opens from a "sheath" (for lack of a proper term) and the "sheath" curls up and
remains after the leaf blade opens. This is one of the fastest growing
vines I have in the atrium. When the collector sent it she said
it was growing in full sun so I have placed it in the brightest portion of my
atrium. I was recently informed the county bulldozed the
area where these were growing and no trace is left of the plant. Photos
are attached. If these photos help anyone recognize
the plant I'd love to know.

Steve Lucas

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From: abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2006.08.22 at 13:53:16(14542)
Hello,

Isn't it Ph. melanochrysum? I have one, but my
plant has darker leaves and they also are velvety and brownish underside, you
may compare with the specimen in my page:
http://www.wschowa.com/abrimaal/araceum/philodendron/melan.htm

Marek Argent

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.08.22 at 14:30:55(14545)
Dr. Croat has saw the photos 3 months ago and did not indicate
it is this plant. I sent him new ones today. I also grow P.
melanochrysum and that one is slow growing by comparison to this one.
It certainly may be but I have P. melanochrysum growing just 10 feet
from this one and this one outpaces it daily. I wrote the text I posted a
few days ago saying I had 10 leaves and today I have 14. But I don't
discount it may be P. melanochrysum.

Steve Lucas

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.08.22 at 14:54:51(14546)
I am attaching a photo of the philo from Hawaii in what I'm
told is the adult form. This photo was provided by the plant collector who
sent me the plant from Hawaii and is one of the plants she collected on the
roadside.

Steve Lucas

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From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2006.08.22 at 16:12:28(14547)
Would I be way off to say this is perhaps P. scandens? Just a guess,
Michael M.
_______________________________________________
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From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2006.08.22 at 18:02:07(14548)
Philodendron micans I believe it is also called scandens Michael same
plant in most books.
_______________________________________________
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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.08.22 at 18:16:26(14549)
You are probably correct. Russ Hammer just sent me
photos of P. scandens ver. miduhoi and it is virtually identical.
So I'd guess the two of you have found what it is.

Thanks!

Steve Lucas

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From: "Martha Marcela" araceae at gmail.com> on 2006.08.23 at 08:56:55(14552)
Dear Steve,

The correct name for P. scandens is Philodendron hederaceum (Jacq.) Schott. P. scandens is just a synonym.

Marcela

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From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.08.23 at 15:35:25(14553)
Thank you. You are certainly technically correct.
I have spent a good deal of time today reading Dr. Croat's journals regarding
this species. We are apparently dealing with a variation of this plant and
I am not sure exactly how this variation is to be named. The variation
does not apparently look like the normal plant when it reaches its adult
form. I have asked Dr. Croat for a clarifiication but as yet have not
received a response.

Thanks again.

Steve Lucas

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From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.08.25 at 19:48:41(14561)
Dear Russ:

It
depends on if you are really talking about elements of Philodendron hederaceum
or if you have something else. P. micans and P. miduhoi are certainly
synonyms. There are vaguely recognizable subspecies which I treated but
you would scarcely notice the differences. Alternatively you must
remember that you may be seeing only two or three varients of something that is
infinitely variable throughout its range. Collect a plant from Mexico,
Nicaragua, Colombia and Brazil and take them back to Florida and you might be
able to distinquish each of them indefinitely but remember that if you
collected from all the populations throughout the range of the species you
would be hard pressed to find any way place where you could draw the line
between one population and the next. That is the nature of evolution and
also the nature of horticultural elements that you are looking at only small
bits of a spectrum. Now, of course it is also possible that you really
are dealing with misdetermined plants.

Tom

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From: Hermine hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2006.08.25 at 21:34:39(14562)
It
depends on if you are really talking about elements of Philodendron
hederaceum or if you have something else. P. micans and P. miduhoi
are certainly synonyms. There are vaguely recognizable subspecies
which I treated but you would scarcely notice the differences.
Alternatively you must remember that you may be seeing only two or three
varients of something that is infinitely variable throughout its
range. Collect a plant from Mexico, Nicaragua, Colombia and Brazil
and take them back to Florida and you might be able to distinquish each
of them indefinitely but remember that if you collected from all the
populations throughout the range of the species you would be hard pressed
to find any way place where you could draw the line between one
population and the next. That is the nature of evolution and also
the nature of horticultural elements that you are looking at only small
bits of a spectrum. Now, of course it is also possible that you
really are dealing with misdetermined plants.

Tom
(raises hand) could I quote you on this subject? I have been trying to
say this for years, but since i am not a pro, and also not that
good at grunting out a coherent paragraph sometimes, I have never been
able to express this in perfectly understandable english.
hermine

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