Colocasia mess

From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.08.13 at 09:02:52(14507) Dear All, I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are "difficult to choose the right". Can anybody help me identify them, plese. Bye, J Attachment: +More Colocasia1.jpg Description: JPEG image Attachment: Colocasia2.jpg Description: JPEG image Attachment: Colocasia3.jpg Description: JPEG image Attachment: Colocasia4.jpg Description: JPEG image _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Tom Croat" Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2006.08.14 at 15:01:53(14511) Pete Boyce should pronounce on these. Could #3 be Steudnera rather than Colocasia? Number 4 is Colocasia esculenta var. antiquorum, I think. Tom +More From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Agoston Janos Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:03 AM To: AROID-L Subject: [Aroid-l] Colocasia mess Dear All, I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are "difficult to choose the right". Can anybody help me identify them, plese. Bye, J _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.08.14 at 17:34:51(14512) Thank you Tom. If I'll have some time I'll ask him. ----- Original Message ----- +More From: Tom Croat To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Colocasia mess Pete Boyce should pronounce on these. Could #3 be Steudnera rather than Colocasia? Number 4 is Colocasia esculenta var. antiquorum, I think. Tom From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Agoston JanosSent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:03 AMTo: AROID-LSubject: [Aroid-l] Colocasia mess Dear All, I attach the pictures of the plants whose names are "difficult to choose the right". Can anybody help me identify them, plese. Bye, J _______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "mossytrail" mossytrail at hctc.com> on 2006.09.07 at 06:24:26(14573) > Dear All, > > I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell > my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names > for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct! This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature, many species were known only from preserved or cultivated specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation the offspring would show, so each different variant had a separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a single species were put in three or four different genera -- just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the California fan palm, Washintonia filifera. > Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia > esculenta 'Illustris' +More Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e. aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its species name, is properly C. esculenta. > > Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn. > Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ? > Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax > Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is suspect. I cannot speak of your other questions. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Peter Matthews pjm at gol.com> on 2006.09.08 at 02:03:15(14574) Dear Various, In the early 1980s I had the opportunity to look through European herbarium collections of Colocasia species. The most often collected and clearly distinct species were Colocasia esculenta (very widespread in the wild and in cultivation), C. fallax Schott (Engler & Krause 1920) (central Himalaya), C. affinis Schott (Engler & Krause 1920) (eastern Himalaya to Thailand) and C. gigantea Hook f. (Hotta 1970) (E and SE Asia). All four of these species are used as ornamentals and are now quite widepsread outside their natural or pre-modern historical range. Other rarely collected species of Colocasia are less well-known taxonomically, their geographical ranges cannot be ascertained from one or just a few collection records each. These species are less likely to be found in trade (C. gracilis, C. mannii, C. virosa, and others that have been reported in recent years). C. affinis a tender, cold-sensitive species with stolons (a tropical lowland species, or lowland and low hills). C. fallax is a tough, cold tolerant species with stolons (i.e it seems to be atropical mountain species). C. gigantea ranges in cultivation from tropics to warm temperate areas, and will regrow after frost or snow damage (in Japan). C. esculenta ranges in cultivation from tropics to cool temperate areas, and will regrow after frost or snow damage (to 41 degrees N.in Japan). Wild forms in the lowland tropics and subtropics are all stoloniferous and show considerable phenotypic diversity in mainland SE Asia - in coloration, spathe morphology etc.). Wild forms at higher altitudes (above 1000 m) in the tropics are not well known but do exist, and some bear cormels rather than stolons. The historically recognised varieties (e.g.C. e. var. aquatilis and var. antiquorum) may simply represent fragments from a continuous range of morphological variation among wild forms in diverse habitats over a huge geographical range in Asia and the western Pacific. It is difficult for anyone to actually cover all the ground that needs to be covered, to comprehend variation in very widespread species. Give us another hundred years or so (or 100 students and funds for 1 year). Thanks, Peter ref. +More P. Matthews (1991) A possible tropical widltype taro: Colocasia esculenta var. aquatilis. Bulletin of the Indo-Pacific Prehistory Association, 11: 69-81. **** > Dear All, I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct! This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature, many species were known only from preserved or cultivated specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation the offspring would show, so each different variant had a separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a single species were put in three or four different genera -- just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the California fan palm, Washintonia filifera. Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia esculenta 'Illustris' Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e. aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its species name, is properly C. esculenta. Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn. Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is suspect. I cannot speak of your other questions. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- Peter Matthews (Dr) National Museum of Ethnology Senri Expo Park, Suita City Osaka 565-8511, Japan Tel. +81 6 6876-2151 (museum exchange, J. only) Tel. +81 6 6878-8344 (Peter's office) Fax +81 6 6878-7503 (museum) Websites: The Research Cooperative http://www.researchco-op.co.nz A meeting place for research writers, editors, translators and proofreaders **** Sato Project: http://www.satoproject.blogspot.com Plant genetic resources in Eurasia **** _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Agoston Janos" agoston.janos at citromail.hu> on 2006.09.08 at 06:33:08(14575) Dear Jason,Thank you for your help. Now I know more from this nomenclature.Bye,Jani -- Eredeti ?zenet -- Felad?: mossytrail +More C?mzett: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com M?solat: Elk?ldve: 03:23 T?ma: [Aroid-l] Re: Colocasia mess> Dear All,> > I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell> my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names> for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct!This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature,many species were known only from preserved or cultivatedspecimens. There was no way of knowing which of thesespecimens could have interbred, nor of how much variationthe offspring would show, so each different variant had aseparate name. In some cases, different specimens of asingle species were put in three or four different genera --just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, theCalifornia fan palm, Washintonia filifera.> Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia> esculenta 'Illustris'Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has threesubspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e.aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as itsspecies name, is properly C. esculenta.> > Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn.> Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ?> Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax>Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, butsince it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it issuspect.I cannot speak of your other questions.Jason HernandezNaturalist-at-Large_______________________________________________Aroid-l mailing listAroid-l@gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _________________________________________ INTERNETES NYELVTANUL?S! A sarki nyelviskola a m?lt sz?zad int?zm?nye, a XXI. sz?zad? az INTERNETES NYELVISKOLA!http://www.mediabo.hu/nyelviskolacitro.html Kattints! _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" botanist at malesiana.com> on 2006.09.08 at 09:09:08(14576) Colocasia fallax is a good species ----- Original Message ----- To: +More Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:24 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Re: Colocasia mess Dear All, I'm fed up with most of the botanists. I'm trying to sell my plants under correct names, but... There are 2-4 names for plants. Now please decide wich one is correct! This is because in the early days of Linnaean nomenclature, many species were known only from preserved or cultivated specimens. There was no way of knowing which of these specimens could have interbred, nor of how much variation the offspring would show, so each different variant had a separate name. In some cases, different specimens of a single species were put in three or four different genera -- just try sorting out the synonymy of, for example, the California fan palm, Washintonia filifera. Colocasia antiquorum 'Illustris' cf. ? syn. Colocasia esculenta 'Illustris' Colocasia esculenta is the species. It has three subspecies, C. e. esculenta, C. e. antiquorum, and C. e. aquatilis. Anything with one of those last two as its species name, is properly C. esculenta. Colocasia esculenta (?var. ?subsp.) fallax cf. ? syn. Colocasia fallax ? Colocasia fallax 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia esculenta 'Silves Splash' ? Colocasia fallax Not sure whether C. fallax is a good species or not, but since it, too, is here mixed up with C. esculenta, it is suspect. I cannot speak of your other questions. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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