Heaters, vented & otherwise (was "Anthurium")

From: Steve Marak samarak at gizmoworks.com> on 2006.11.21 at 23:46:56(14818) The topic of combusting greenhouse heaters without external venting came up at an orchid society meeting a couple of years ago and the older, more experienced growers unanimously issued dire warnings. Most said that their orchids didn't die, but dropped flowers and leaves and generally ailed until they vented their heaters externally or switched to another heat source. I've always assumed this was due to carbon monoxide from incomplete combustion, since that's always a concern when burning things indoors, and since I've read/heard many times that carbon monoxide damages plants at very low concentrations. I have no idea what the chemical mechanism would be and for some reason find it counterintuitive, but it seems to be so - dying plants is often listed as one of the things to watch for when a carbon monoxide problem is suspected. But I've seen a lot of these self-venting greenhouse heaters advertised, and I've used a portable kerosene heater to heat my sunroom, one winter until we could get the failing house system replaced. I was meticulous about everything to get the most complete combustion I could, used the heater the bare minimum, and kept two carbon monoxide detectors nearby, and didn't see any problems. If there are people with experience here, I'd love to hear from them - I need a non-electric backup heat source for a new structure. Steve +More On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, D. Christopher Rogers wrote: > Hi Tom, > > The heater I purchased supposedly does not need a vent, but is "self venting" > and was sold as a greenhouse heater. You have given pause to worry now! But > then, my greenhouse is fairy small (17 feet x nine feet with an eight foot > peak), and I have a strong exhaust fan, a good circulating fan, and three > sliding glass windows that I use for vents, one of which is immediately above > the heater. (stuff deleted) > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of Tom Croat > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:34 PM > To: Discussion of aroids > Subject: [Spam] RE: [Aroid-l] Anthurium > > Dear Chris: > > Will this propane burner be exhausted in your greenhouse. You > have to be concerned with the combustibles because as I recall we caused > leaves to fall off plants by using a burner within the greenhouse. > > Tom (more stuff deleted) -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2006.11.22 at 00:00:13(14819) Sorry about that Steve! Here's the photo! Steve Lucas +More ----- Original Message ----- Lucas Exotic Rainforest To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 5:59 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] Heaters, vented & otherwise (was "Anthurium") Not one of my strong suits either. But we use a natural gas heater in our NW Arkansas atrium. The heater is not vented to the outside. It has a thermostat so the temp does not go below 58 degrees. We've used it for 4 years and nothing seems to be harmed. Here's a photo taken this morning. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Attachment: entrance.gif Description: GIF image _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Harry Witmore" harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2006.11.22 at 00:46:54(14821) I have what I call my fern house with a propane heater in it not vented and have had no problems I would attribute to the heater. Now, I do make sure there is some fresh air coming in since if I don't and the fans go off it goes out. So I think there is more of a problem with getting enough oxygen to the heater than buildup of carbon monoxide or dioxide to the plants. At least ferns that is. Harry Witmore +More Cloud Jungle Epiphytes www.cloudjungle.com -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Steve Marak Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:47 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Heaters, vented & otherwise (was "Anthurium") The topic of combusting greenhouse heaters without external venting came up at an orchid society meeting a couple of years ago and the older, more experienced growers unanimously issued dire warnings. Most said that their orchids didn't die, but dropped flowers and leaves and generally ailed until they vented their heaters externally or switched to another heat source. I've always assumed this was due to carbon monoxide from incomplete combustion, since that's always a concern when burning things indoors, and since I've read/heard many times that carbon monoxide damages plants at very low concentrations. I have no idea what the chemical mechanism would be and for some reason find it counterintuitive, but it seems to be so - dying plants is often listed as one of the things to watch for when a carbon monoxide problem is suspected. But I've seen a lot of these self-venting greenhouse heaters advertised, and I've used a portable kerosene heater to heat my sunroom, one winter until we could get the failing house system replaced. I was meticulous about everything to get the most complete combustion I could, used the heater the bare minimum, and kept two carbon monoxide detectors nearby, and didn't see any problems. If there are people with experience here, I'd love to hear from them - I need a non-electric backup heat source for a new structure. Steve On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, D. Christopher Rogers wrote: > Hi Tom, > > The heater I purchased supposedly does not need a vent, but is "self venting" > and was sold as a greenhouse heater. You have given pause to worry > now! But then, my greenhouse is fairy small (17 feet x nine feet with > an eight foot peak), and I have a strong exhaust fan, a good > circulating fan, and three sliding glass windows that I use for vents, > one of which is immediately above the heater. (stuff deleted) > -----Original Message----- > From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]On Behalf Of Tom Croat > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:34 PM > To: Discussion of aroids > Subject: [Spam] RE: [Aroid-l] Anthurium > > Dear Chris: > > Will this propane burner be exhausted in your greenhouse. > You have to be concerned with the combustibles because as I recall we > caused leaves to fall off plants by using a burner within the greenhouse. > > Tom (more stuff deleted) -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.0.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.0.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com on 2006.11.22 at 01:30:52(14822) I use a kerosene heater almost every night the temps fall near or below freezing as a backup heat source to my regular vented gas source. The main reason why I do this is for fear of power going out at night....but it really does help with keeping the GH floor temps up and lower my heating bills. Ive been doing this for several years now and havent seen any problems...(knock on wood). Michael M. _______________________________________________ +More Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: NORHOW at aol.com on 2006.11.22 at 10:17:04(14828) And just to confirm that the natural gas in the UK seems to do no more harm than that in the US ....... I heat my two small greenhouses (15 x 16 & 20 x 8) using natural gas (actually I think the gas comes from Scandinavia and Russia!). I have no vents as such, other than the usual "gaps" at doors, and maintain the temperature at 60F minimum for my aroids, etc. and have done for years. The latest photo from Steve Lucas (plus the others of his atrium on his website) certainly seem to confirm no ill effect on growth. Mind you, my hair has gone completely white, but that's just old age!! Norman Howard +More Hampshire, UK _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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