Vines and the Coriolis Effect

From: jimjim at sky.net (James W. Waddick) on 1996.12.28 at 03:53:50(6) Dear Don; Is there a term for "Urban Legend" applied to a world-wide Legend. If the whirlpools go the other way 'down under', the vines must twine the other way, too. DUH! There probably ARE alligators in the sewers of Sydney however. Jim W. +More James L. Murrain Voice: 816 746 1949 James W. Waddick E-MAIL: jimjim@sky.net 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Fax: 816 746 1939 Kansas City MO 64152

From: grsjr at juno.com (George R Stilwell, Jr.) on 1996.12.28 at 03:56:35(7) Don, It's well known that Wisteria sinensis (Chinese) twines in the opposite direction of Wisteria floribunda (Japanese). Since both are native to the northern hemisphere, there's at least one exception to the theory that coriolis effects vine twining direction. I think the guy you quoted must have been holding a glass in his curled fingers. Ray +More GRSJr@Juno.com

From: Endangered Species <especies at ix.netcom.com> on 1996.12.28 at 04:02:05(9) At 08:23 AM 12/27/96 -0600, Don Burns wrote: >Aroiders, >Not on the subject of Aroids but certainly of interest to those who play >with Philodendron and Syngonium, the following interchange is a direct >quote from a bionet group last week: > +More >>> >>>It has been observed that in out area vines grow clockwise up trees. >>>Is this the same in other parts of Australia or do they grow >>>ant-clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere? CAn someone from there check >>>and tell us? >> >>This one I qualify to answer. Because of the earth's rotation a >>secondary effect force (secondary only because is small in flight >>computations) called Coryollis effect causes the vortex caused by >>draining a sink or tub to turn "counterclockwise" - looking down on it >>in the northern hemisphere. Vines will do the same around trees. Of >>course as an engineer I use my right hand fist with the thumb up as the >>direction of the twist looking from bottom up. Likewise the effect is >>reversed in the southern hemisphere, or thumb down in my analogy. I was >>born and raised 1/2 degree south of the equator and the vines grew as I >>stated. Also did the water vortex on the sink. Cheers... >End of quote. > >When I first read this I could not believe my eyes. Coriolis is not a new >concept to me, but as applied to the growth of vines? Who is pulling >whose leg here? Do I require enlightenment? Have I finally found a good >subject for my PhD dissertation in botany? > >Don > >PS: Yup, I already went out to the back yard and looked at the vines >climbing the ficus trees - they grow in all directions. > > The trunks of all the Eucalyptus here in s. cal spiral in one direction. However, re: spiraling of water in sinks and toilets, much influence is imparted by contours of basins. I have devoted my life to watiching this, flushing toilets and draining sinks everywhere in pursuit of the truth. Hermine

From: Don Martinson <dmartin at cdmas.crc.fmlh.edu> on 1996.12.28 at 04:04:51(10) While not wishing to extend this rather non-aroid thread too far, I'd like to add my .02 worth. We should already suspect there would be no effect on vining plants since those of who grow wisteria know that of the 2 most commonly seen species, W. sinensis twines from left to right, while W. florabunda twines from right to left. I'm not sure that I would trust the "drain effect" on determining whether you reside in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere (assuming you don't already know!). The Coriolis Forces are too weak to reliably work in such a small venue (At least this is what all of my physics teachers told me.). Finally, for a more humorous look at differing vining habits, I would refer you to one of the old songs of British humorists, Michael Flanders and Donald Swann called "The Honeysuckle and the Bindweed", regarding an ill-fated love affair between the right-handed honeysuckle and the left-handed bindweed -- Don Martinson +More dmartin@cdmas.crc.fmlh.edu "Existing order thrives upon ignorance and lies. Objective truth and individual reason are feared above all." - Jimmy Johnson, "Arlo & Janis"

From: Endangered Species <especies at ix.netcom.com> on 1996.12.28 at 05:42:25(13) At 09:53 PM 12/27/96 -0600, James W. Waddick wrote: >Dear Don; > Is there a term for "Urban Legend" applied to a world-wide Legend. >If the whirlpools go the other way 'down under', the vines must twine the >other way, too. DUH! > There probably ARE alligators in the sewers of Sydney however. > > Jim W. +More > >James L. Murrain Voice: 816 746 1949 >James W. Waddick E-MAIL: jimjim@sky.net >8871 NW Brostrom Rd Fax: 816 746 1939 >Kansas City MO 64152 > > > > > Jim! take hold of your reason, man! they would be Crocodiles in the sewers of Sydney! did you ever see a movie called Alligator Dundee? even THEY got it right. Lay off the eggnog, jimna!

From: "David G. Bauman" <DBAUMAN at mail.indyzoo.com> on 1996.12.28 at 19:49:41(15) It's my understanding that most species have a characteristic phyllotaxy. Would we expect then that a given species planted "north" and "south" would exhibit this in equal magnitude but opposite direction? It would surprise me, but then I've been surprised more than once in my life and the natural world IS the place to find surprises :) [phyllotaxy refers to the natural "spiral" or "twist" in a plant. Start at a leaf and count the number of spirals made until a leaf is found directly above and in line with the first and then divide by the total number of leaves passed.] +More |================================================================| | David G. Bauman Dawn G. Bauman | | Collections Botanist Greenhouse Manager | | Indianapolis Zoo IUPUI, Biology Dept. | | (317) 630-2060 voice (317) 274-0584 voice | | (317) 630-5153 fax (317) 274-2846 fax | | dbauman@mail.indyzoo.com dbauman@indyvax.iupui.edu | |================================================================|

From: Rand Nicholson <writserv at nbnet.nb.ca> on 1996.12.28 at 22:40:54(16) >It's my understanding that most species have a characteristic >phyllotaxy. Would we expect then that a given species planted >"north" and "south" would exhibit this in equal magnitude but >opposite direction? It would surprise me, but then I've been >surprised more than once in my life and the natural world IS the >place to find surprises :) > >[phyllotaxy refers to the natural "spiral" or "twist" in a plant. >Start at a leaf and count the number of spirals made until a leaf is >found directly above and in line with the first and then divide by >the total number of leaves passed.] > +More >|================================================================| >| David G. Bauman Dawn G. Bauman | >| Collections Botanist Greenhouse Manager | >| Indianapolis Zoo IUPUI, Biology Dept. | >| (317) 630-2060 voice (317) 274-0584 voice | >| (317) 630-5153 fax (317) 274-2846 fax | >| dbauman@mail.indyzoo.com dbauman@indyvax.iupui.edu | >|================================================================| Be that as it may, David, the Scarlet Runner bean vines in this part of the continent of North America (Maritime Canada) and, as far North as {The beginnings of the "True North" :) } Yellowknife, Sweet Peas, are not _right_ or _left_ "handed". They _will_ try to continue a twist, once they have something to grasp onto, but they have a haphazard inclination to spiral in one direction from what I have seen. Indeed, it seems to be in a vine's nature just take advantage of what support is offered within its biosystem. I have left the old Scarlet Runner (and others; Morning Glories, etc.) vines (don't ask) where they were when our Canadian winter set in. They are perfectly preserved by the nasty cold winds and frosts, albiet leafless. (sigh) More clean-up for me to do next spring!

From: BIHOREL at cris.com (Christian Feuillet) on 1996.12.28 at 22:53:13(17) >Dear Don; > Is there a term for "Urban Legend" applied to a world-wide Legend. >If the whirlpools go the other way 'down under', the vines must twine the >other way, too. DUH! > There probably ARE alligators in the sewers of Sydney however. > > Jim W. +More > >James L. Murrain Voice: 816 746 1949 >James W. Waddick E-MAIL: jimjim@sky.net >8871 NW Brostrom Rd Fax: 816 746 1939 >Kansas City MO 64152 > More likely their local crocodiles. * MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE DESK OF / \ / * \ ,--- / \ \\/ ~ ~ \// / * * \ ( @ @ ) / * \ -----oOOo-- (_) --oOOo--/ * * \------------ | | | Christian FEUILLET | | Beltsville MD, USA - BIHOREL@cris.com | | | | PLANTS & GENEALOGY | |_____________________________________________|

From: "Bill Plummer" <remmulp at servtech.com> on 1996.12.28 at 23:58:52(18) IF this is a real effect, could it be the growing tip is following the sun around ? ---------- +More > From: Rand Nicholson > To: remmulp@servtech.com > Subject: Re: Vines and the Coriolis Effect > Date: Saturday, December 28, 1996 5:40 PM > > >It's my understanding that most species have a characteristic > >phyllotaxy. Would we expect then that a given species planted > >"north" and "south" would exhibit this in equal magnitude but > >opposite direction? It would surprise me, but then I've been > >surprised more than once in my life and the natural world IS the > >place to find surprises :) > > > >[phyllotaxy refers to the natural "spiral" or "twist" in a plant. > >Start at a leaf and count the number of spirals made until a leaf is > >found directly above and in line with the first and then divide by > >the total number of leaves passed.] > > > >|================================================================| > >| David G. Bauman Dawn G. Bauman | > >| Collections Botanist Greenhouse Manager | > >| Indianapolis Zoo IUPUI, Biology Dept. | > >| (317) 630-2060 voice (317) 274-0584 voice | > >| (317) 630-5153 fax (317) 274-2846 fax | > >| dbauman@mail.indyzoo.com dbauman@indyvax.iupui.edu | > >|================================================================| > > Be that as it may, David, the Scarlet Runner bean vines in this part of the > continent of North America (Maritime Canada) and, as far North as {The > beginnings of the "True North" :) } Yellowknife, Sweet Peas, are not > _right_ or _left_ "handed". They _will_ try to continue a twist, once they > have something to grasp onto, but they have a haphazard inclination to > spiral in one direction from what I have seen. Indeed, it seems to be in a > vine's nature just take advantage of what support is offered within its > biosystem. > > I have left the old Scarlet Runner (and others; Morning Glories, etc.) > vines (don't ask) where they were when our Canadian winter set in. They are > perfectly preserved by the nasty cold winds and frosts, albiet leafless. > > (sigh) More clean-up for me to do next spring! > > > >

From: Endangered Species <especies at ix.netcom.com> on 1996.12.29 at 01:50:50(19) At 05:58 PM 12/28/96 -0600, you wrote: >IF this is a real effect, could it be the growing tip is following the sun >around ? +More > >---------- > > When I was a child in Brooklyn I grew Morning Glories on our fire-escape. (a sordid childhood, but still, an horticultural one). I was fascinated by vining because it happened so fast, you could go away and come back in half an hour and something sould have vined round. I sometimes undid the vines and wound them the other way just to see what would happen. but I don't remember if anything did. I believe there is a jungle vine which can make a 12'dia circle in a 24 hour period. Somebody out there must know if vining has a geo-magnetic kinesthetic parathyroid module. Who can we ask?

From: Tim McNinch <newton at cin.net> on 1996.12.29 at 20:05:40(23) To skeptics: Yet another question which is getting entirely off subject, will our family dog, Halley (after the comet), who rotates clockwise once or twice before she lies down (an old innate habit of chasing snakes away from the immediate area prior to sleep) turn counter-clockwise to do this in the southern hemisphere? How does phototropism get along with this Coryollis effect? And we all know that plants growing in the southern hemisphere are essentially growing up-side-down, so does geotropism come into play? How far does a plant need to be from the equator to be allowed to turn the other cheek? Losing sleep over these issues... I remain, Tim +More Happy new year to all. -- --------------------------------------------- [ Tim McNinch (IAS) Illinois zone 4-5 ] [ Greenhouseman wannabe ] [ ] [ E-Mail NEWTON@CIN.NET ] [ ] [ "The difference between the right word ] [ and the almost right word is the difference ] [ between lightning and the lightning bug." ] [ Mark Twain ] ---------------------------------------------

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