RE:Dr.'s Croat, Goncalves, Pete Boyce---

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2007.03.03 at 12:06:13(15380) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:31 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Dear Tom, Eduardo, Pete, Alistair, Wilbert, etc., I think it fitting that on behalf of all the members of aroid-l, that we just say a simple word of thanks to all the professionals, a few of whom I have mentioned above (forgive me those of you who I have not mentioned!) who take time from their busy lives and professional duties to share some of their hard-learned knowledge with us who do this 'plant thing' just as hobby. I can only hope that all of us 'out there' recognize what a valuable resource aroid-l provides to all of us who seek information on this group of plants we so love, to have persons of this caliber literally at our fingertips to respond where possible to our questions! Thanks again, friends. Julius +More WPB, FLORIDA Dear Ted, We visited Robert Kautsky, the original collector of the nomenclatural type of P. spiritus-sancti. He gave the plant George Bunting described. We observed the cultivated specimen he still keeps on his farm (from which dry specimens were prepared) and we spotted similar material around. We have been collecting in Espirito Santo state for years and we could only found this species in Kautsky's farm. Obviously we used classic taxonomic characters to ID it, including sections on flowers. That was not that hard because there is no other species that could be REALLY confused with P. spiritus-sancti, although you can confuse many species under the popular "loose" definition of "Santa Leopoldina". Right now we are using clones of the type specimen to make a profile based on the "DNA barcode" concept, in order to make identifications of P. spiritus-sancti more reliable. Unfortunately, the "real" identity of P. "Santa Leopoldina" will be hard to find out, mainly because you can't extract DNA from an horticultural legend! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL. From: ted.held@us.henkel.com Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:33:15 -0500 All, OK. So how reliable are the reports of the remaining P. spiritu-sancti in the wild? What distinguishing marks should we be looking for? I have been looking at the pictures in the postings and they vary quite a bit. How do I know a real one when I see it? On what basis do the searchers in Brazil make their determinations? Maybe the only plants left are examples of one or another of the sham plants. Ted.<< _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Peter Boyce" <botanist at malesiana.com> on 2007.03.04 at 21:59:37(15389) Dear Julius, Thank you for your very kind words. If I may be permitted to answer on behalf of all us so fortunate as to be in the position to have someone pay us to pursue our hobby AND be allowed to be considered as professionals, and say that it is very much a two way process. We gain enormously (and take great pleasure) from being included among the ranks of the plant hobbyists; without the folks that grow, and grow so expertly, many of the plants that we study we, as professionals, would be very much the poorer in terms of knowledge and vitally, in terms of our circle of friends. +More Thanks, Pete Kuching ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 8:06 PM Subject: [Aroid-l] RE:Dr.'s Croat, Goncalves, Pete Boyce--- Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:31 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Dear Tom, Eduardo, Pete, Alistair, Wilbert, etc., I think it fitting that on behalf of all the members of aroid-l, that we just say a simple word of thanks to all the professionals, a few of whom I have mentioned above (forgive me those of you who I have not mentioned!) who take time from their busy lives and professional duties to share some of their hard-learned knowledge with us who do this 'plant thing' just as hobby. I can only hope that all of us 'out there' recognize what a valuable resource aroid-l provides to all of us who seek information on this group of plants we so love, to have persons of this caliber literally at our fingertips to respond where possible to our questions! Thanks again, friends. Julius WPB, FLORIDA Dear Ted, We visited Robert Kautsky, the original collector of the nomenclatural type of P. spiritus-sancti. He gave the plant George Bunting described. We observed the cultivated specimen he still keeps on his farm (from which dry specimens were prepared) and we spotted similar material around. We have been collecting in Espirito Santo state for years and we could only found this species in Kautsky's farm. Obviously we used classic taxonomic characters to ID it, including sections on flowers. That was not that hard because there is no other species that could be REALLY confused with P. spiritus-sancti, although you can confuse many species under the popular "loose" definition of "Santa Leopoldina". Right now we are using clones of the type specimen to make a profile based on the "DNA barcode" concept, in order to make identifications of P. spiritus-sancti more reliable. Unfortunately, the "real" identity of P. "Santa Leopoldina" will be hard to find out, mainly because you can't extract DNA from an horticultural legend! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga - DF, BRAZIL. Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:33:15 -0500 All, OK. So how reliable are the reports of the remaining P. spiritu-sancti in the wild? What distinguishing marks should we be looking for? I have been looking at the pictures in the postings and they vary quite a bit. How do I know a real one when I see it? On what basis do the searchers in Brazil make their determinations? Maybe the only plants left are examples of one or another of the sham plants. Ted.<< _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Tom Croat" <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2007.03.06 at 01:26:53(15392) Dear Eduardo: What do you mean you can't take a DNA sample of Kautsky's plant? Does one have to use leaves for DNA? Could one not simply collect a root tip to get DNA? Tom +More Tom Croat, P. A. Schulze Curator of Botany Missouri Botanical Garden Box 299, St. Louis, Missouri 63116 (314) 577-5163 Thomas.Croat@mobot.org Please send images to our FTP Server. ftp://garfile:garden2003@cissus.mobot.org/incoming/croat ftp://garfile:garden2003@cissus.mobot.org/outgoing/croat -----Original Message----- [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 6:06 AM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l] RE:Dr.'s Croat, Goncalves, Pete Boyce--- >From : Eduardo Goncalves Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:31 PM To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject : RE: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Dear Tom, Eduardo, Pete, Alistair, Wilbert, etc., I think it fitting that on behalf of all the members of aroid-l, that we just say a simple word of thanks to all the professionals, a few of whom I have mentioned above (forgive me those of you who I have not mentioned!) who take time from their busy lives and professional duties to share some of their hard-learned knowledge with us who do this 'plant thing' just as hobby. I can only hope that all of us 'out there' recognize what a valuable resource aroid-l provides to all of us who seek information on this group of plants we so love, to have persons of this caliber literally at our fingertips to respond where possible to our questions! Thanks again, friends. Julius WPB, FLORIDA >>Dear Ted, We visited Robert Kautsky, the original collector of the nomenclatural type of P. spiritus-sancti. He gave the plant George Bunting described. We observed the cultivated specimen he still keeps on his farm (from which dry specimens were prepared) and we spotted similar material around. We have been collecting in Espirito Santo state for years and we could only found this species in Kautsky's farm. Obviously we used classic taxonomic characters to ID it, including sections on flowers. That was not that hard because there is no other species that could be REALLY confused with P. spiritus-sancti, although you can confuse many species under the popular "loose" definition of "Santa Leopoldina". Right now we are using clones of the type specimen to make a profile based on the "DNA barcode" concept, in order to make identifications of P. spiritus-sancti more reliable. Unfortunately, the "real" identity of P. "Santa Leopoldina" will be hard to find out, mainly because you can't extract DNA from an horticultural legend! Very best wishes, Eduardo. Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga - DF, BRAZIL. From: ted.held@us.henkel.com Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina' Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 14:33:15 -0500 All, OK. So how reliable are the reports of the remaining P. spiritu-sancti in the wild? What distinguishing marks should we be looking for? I have been looking at the pictures in the postings and they vary quite a bit. How do I know a real one when I see it? On what basis do the searchers in Brazil make their determinations? Maybe the only plants left are examples of one or another of the sham plants. Ted.<< _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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