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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
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Arlan`s Unknown Philo. (bipinnatifidum?)
|
From: kalim1998 at yahoo.com (a san juan) on 2007.10.14 at 04:28:37(16488)
Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very pronounced tendency to CURL into itself. weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery leaves...
Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
| +More | |
brian lee wrote: Dear Arlan,
Aloha. That is definitely not Philodendron
adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I sent
you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
description.
Aloha,
Leland
--- a san juan wrote:
> Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> is identical from end to end....
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
>
>
>
> a san juan wrote: No
> problem....let me take a pic and post it....
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
> >From : a san juan
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> ex: Brazil
>
> Dear Arlan,
>
> This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo of
> a leaf of the plant in
> question!!
> Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> plants that grew from seed
> labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> be 'something' close to
> P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> adamantinium or P.
> saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such
> plant, and I will forward
> it to you after this.
> Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> the distance from the
> BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> the mid rib DECREASES as
> you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> division up towards the
> petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is true
> of any P.
> bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me what
> you see in YOUR plant
> ex: Brian Williams!
> Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants grown
> for seed of P.
> bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> especially when compared to any
> plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> reasoning being that
> presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here in
> the U.S.A. are out of
> tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> and so will show little or
> no differences to each other. The plants from seed
> SHOULD show differences
> as they are NOT genitically alike!
>
> The Best,
>
> Julius Boos
>
> >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> adamantinum" and it looks like
> >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a P.
> bipinnatifidum at
> >>least.<<
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
>
>
> >From : Julius Boos
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> Amer. Co.
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> close to either solving OR
> giving up on this facet of my search for
> accuracy in this matter. I have
> not received any replies from anyone with whom
> Vic Soukup shared seeds,
> I
> can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> forward with information.
> I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D. a
> plant of any
> Meconostigma
> sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> those of us who may STILL
> have
> plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent from
> this Company. I could
> not
> do a comparison chart as I had planned, my old
> comp. (or my dumb brain)
> would not let it be.
> Google these species, there are GREAT photos out
> there, Arlan San Juan
> and
> David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> SO---here goes--
>
> Philo. bipinnatifidium.
>
> This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> seeds from Brazil, labeled
> as
> other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> here. It is a HUGE
> species,
> but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> sub-adult plants.
> Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> divisions that are
> bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> generally at least 6 cm. long.
> In
> juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes no
> bipinnate/secondary
> divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses (the
> spaces between the
> divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting from
> the tip of the leaf
> blade,
> and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> structures surrounding the
> point
> where the petiole joins the rhizome or 'trunk')
> are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> chessnut-red in color, easily
> detachable.
> Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> 6.5 wide X 5 cm high,
> colored
> light gray, with dark gray margins.
> Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> resemble P. saxicolum,
> but at
> this stage will have NO visible rhizome/trunk).
>
> P. adamintinum.
>
> This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> plants from 6 1/2"-13"
> long!
> Anterior divisions of leaf blade only sometimes
> have secondary
> divisions,
> very small/short, no more than just a 'scallop',
> under 1 cm long.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib DECREASE as
> you
> move from the tip upward toward the juncture of
> the petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules decidious (falling off),
> sometimes persistant,
> small,
> 0.1-0.2 mm.
> Leaf scars on rhizome/trunk are greenish-gray w/
> chessnut margins,
> elliptic
> to
> Petiole elliptic to round in cross section.
>
> P. saxicolum.
>
> Another smaller species.
> Leaf blade no longer then 12"- 18" , divisions
> not as deep as in
> near/adult
> P. bipinnatifidium or especially P. adamintinum,
> never divided.
> As in P. bipinnatifidium, the distances between
> the bottom of the
> sinuses
> and the midrib INCREASE from the tip upwards
> toward the juncture with
> the
> petiole.
>
> P. paludicola.
>
> Leaves held errect to semi-errect.
> No intravaginal squamules on THICK
> rhizome/trunk.
> Leaf blade with shallow divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib increase
> rapidly
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2007.10.14 at 17:10:19(16489)
Dear Arlan,
Aloha. It has been a long time since I heard a peep
from you. I am glad that you are still lurking
around.
| +More |
I have a plant that is very similar to this and I sent
Julius photos of this earlier. It is of a plant
obtained in Brazil by my late friend, David Woolsey on
a trip that included an expedition into southern
Bahia...but I do not know if this was a collected or
cultivated plant. If Julius doesn't forward photos to
you, I can do so via my wife's email separately.
My plant is a large growing species and I am waiting
for it to bloom so the inflorescence can be observed.
David Woolsey's expedition took him along the Atlantic
Coastal Rainforest, from Rio de Janeiro, into Espirito
Santo, and to Bahia on the Sao Francisco drainage near
Andarai. He stayed at Roberto Burle-Marx's sitio at
Guaratiba, so he could have obtained it there too.
At anyrate, this plant you are growing has the same
genetics as this taxon Julius and I are discussing.
Good to hear from you again.
Aloha,
Leland
--- a san juan wrote:
> Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks
> nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance
> to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the
> leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very
> pronounced tendency to CURL into itself.
> weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery
> leaves...
>
> Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see
> darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
>
>
>
> brian lee wrote: Dear Arlan,
>
> Aloha. That is definitely not Philodendron
> adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I
> sent
> you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
> description.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Leland
> --- a san juan wrote:
>
> > Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> > leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> > is identical from end to end....
> >
> >
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > a san juan wrote: No
> > problem....let me take a pic and post it....
> >
> > Julius Boos wrote:
> > >From : a san juan
> > Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> > Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> > To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> > Subject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> > ex: Brazil
> >
> > Dear Arlan,
> >
> > This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo
> of
> > a leaf of the plant in
> > question!!
> > Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> > plants that grew from seed
> > labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> > be 'something' close to
> > P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> > adamantinium or P.
> > saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such
> > plant, and I will forward
> > it to you after this.
> > Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> > the distance from the
> > BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> > the mid rib DECREASES as
> > you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> > division up towards the
> > petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is
> true
> > of any P.
> > bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me
> what
> > you see in YOUR plant
> > ex: Brian Williams!
> > Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants
> grown
> > for seed of P.
> > bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> > especially when compared to any
> > plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> > reasoning being that
> > presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here
> in
> > the U.S.A. are out of
> > tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> > and so will show little or
> > no differences to each other. The plants from
> seed
> > SHOULD show differences
> > as they are NOT genitically alike!
> >
> > The Best,
> >
> > Julius Boos
> >
> > >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> > adamantinum" and it looks like
> > >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a
> P.
> > bipinnatifidum at
> > >>least.<<
> >
> > Julius Boos wrote:
> >
> >
> > >From : Julius Boos
> > Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> > Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> > To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> > Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> > Amer. Co.
> >
> >
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> > Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> > close to either solving OR
> > giving up on this facet of my search for
> > accuracy in this matter. I have
> > not received any replies from anyone with whom
> > Vic Soukup shared seeds,
> > I
> > can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> > forward with information.
> > I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D.
> a
> > plant of any
> > Meconostigma
> > sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> > those of us who may STILL
> > have
> > plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent
> from
> > this Company. I could
> > not
> > do a comparison chart as I had planned, my
> old
> > comp. (or my dumb brain)
> > would not let it be.
> > Google these species, there are GREAT photos
> out
> > there, Arlan San Juan
> > and
> > David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> > SO---here goes--
> >
> > Philo. bipinnatifidium.
> >
> > This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> > seeds from Brazil, labeled
> > as
> > other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> > here. It is a HUGE
> > species,
> > but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> > sub-adult plants.
> > Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> > divisions that are
> > bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> > generally at least 6 cm. long.
> > In
> > juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes
> no
> > bipinnate/secondary
> > divisions.
> > Distances between the bottom of the sinuses
> (the
> > spaces between the
> > divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting
> from
> > the tip of the leaf
> > blade,
> > and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> > petiole.
> > Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> > structures surrounding the
> > point
> > where the petiole joins the rhizome or
> 'trunk')
> > are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> > wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> > chessnut-red in color, easily
> > detachable.
> > Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> > 6.5 wide X 5 cm high,
> > colored
> > light gray, with dark gray margins.
> > Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> > (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> > resemble P. saxicolum,
> > but at
> > this stage will have NO visible
> rhizome/trunk).
> >
> > P. adamintinum.
> >
> > This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> > plants from 6 1/2"-13"
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Aroid-L mailing list
> Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
|
|
From: kalim1998 at yahoo.com (a san juan) on 2007.10.15 at 02:54:19(16495)
Hi guys:
More pics from me and a pic from Leland Miyano....
Here is the overall look of the meconostigma aroid....i just pruned it so there are less leaves, but it generally is slow growing and has less leaves than my other aroids...In this this pic, note how ALL the leaves are distorted and curved on themselves:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6296.jpg
Here is a close-up of the stem...it does not look like P. bipinnatifidum, with its rather persistent spines..
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6299.jpg
Here's P. bipinnatifidum for a comparison:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_6_25_asj_10.jpg
Leland was kind enough to send a pic for people to compare with the previous pics I sent...here:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/miyano_leland_IMG_0459.jpg
| +More | |
a san juan wrote: Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very pronounced tendency to CURL into itself. weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery leaves...
Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
brian lee wrote: Dear Arlan,
Aloha. That is definitely not Philodendron
adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I sent
you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
description.
Aloha,
Leland
--- a san juan wrote:
> Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> is identical from end to end....
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
>
>
>
> a san juan wrote: No
> problem....let me take a pic and post it....
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
> >From : a san juan
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> ex: Brazil
>
> Dear Arlan,
>
> This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo of
> a leaf of the plant in
> question!!
> Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> plants that grew from seed
> labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> be 'something' close to
> P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> adamantinium or P.
> saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such
> plant, and I will forward
> it to you after this.
> Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> the distance from the
> BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> the mid rib DECREASES as
> you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> division up towards the
> petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is true
> of any P.
> bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me what
> you see in YOUR plant
> ex: Brian Williams!
> Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants grown
> for seed of P.
> bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> especially when compared to any
> plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> reasoning being that
> presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here in
> the U.S.A. are out of
> tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> and so will show little or
> no differences to each other. The plants from seed
> SHOULD show differences
> as they are NOT genitically alike!
>
> The Best,
>
> Julius Boos
>
> >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> adamantinum" and it looks like
> >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a P.
> bipinnatifidum at
> >>least.<<
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
>
>
> >From : Julius Boos
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> Amer. Co.
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> close to either solving OR
> giving up on this facet of my search for
> accuracy in this matter. I have
> not received any replies from anyone with whom
> Vic Soukup shared seeds,
> I
> can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> forward with information.
> I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D. a
> plant of any
> Meconostigma
> sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> those of us who may STILL
> have
> plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent from
> this Company. I could
> not
> do a comparison chart as I had planned, my old
> comp. (or my dumb brain)
> would not let it be.
> Google these species, there are GREAT photos out
> there, Arlan San Juan
> and
> David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> SO---here goes--
>
> Philo. bipinnatifidium.
>
> This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> seeds from Brazil, labeled
> as
> other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> here. It is a HUGE
> species,
> but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> sub-adult plants.
> Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> divisions that are
> bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> generally at least 6 cm. long.
> In
> juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes no
> bipinnate/secondary
> divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses (the
> spaces between the
> divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting from
> the tip of the leaf
> blade,
> and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> structures surrounding the
> point
> where the petiole joins the rhizome or 'trunk')
> are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> chessnut-red in color, easily
> detachable.
> Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> 6.5 wide X 5 cm high,
> colored
> light gray, with dark gray margins.
> Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> resemble P. saxicolum,
> but at
> this stage will have NO visible rhizome/trunk).
>
> P. adamintinum.
>
> This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> plants from 6 1/2"-13"
> long!
> Anterior divisions of leaf blade only sometimes
> have secondary
> divisions,
> very small/short, no more than just a 'scallop',
> under 1 cm long.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib DECREASE as
> you
> move from the tip upward toward the juncture of
> the petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules decidious (falling off),
> sometimes persistant,
> small,
> 0.1-0.2 mm.
> Leaf scars on rhizome/trunk are greenish-gray w/
> chessnut margins,
> elliptic
> to
> Petiole elliptic to round in cross section.
>
> P. saxicolum.
>
> Another smaller species.
> Leaf blade no longer then 12"- 18" , divisions
> not as deep as in
> near/adult
> P. bipinnatifidium or especially P. adamintinum,
> never divided.
> As in P. bipinnatifidium, the distances between
> the bottom of the
> sinuses
> and the midrib INCREASE from the tip upwards
> toward the juncture with
> the
> petiole.
>
> P. paludicola.
>
> Leaves held errect to semi-errect.
> No intravaginal squamules on THICK
> rhizome/trunk.
> Leaf blade with shallow divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib increase
> rapidly
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid96545367
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: kalim1998 at yahoo.com (a san juan) on 2007.10.15 at 03:08:08(16496)
One additional point....when i say "pruned", i actually removed ONE lower leaf, that's it....this plant generally has very few leaves, widely dispersed and spread out....the pumpkins in the background seem to fit the pic since the plant is sorta grotesque and "spindly", perfect for halloween....i was thinking that it's a weird P. bipinnatifidum, but the stems like i said do not seem to indicate it is that species (although i'm hardly an expert)....
a san juan wrote: Hi guys:
More pics from me and a pic from Leland Miyano....
| +More | |
Here is the overall look of the meconostigma aroid....i just pruned it so there are less leaves, but it generally is slow growing and has less leaves than my other aroids...In this this pic, note how ALL the leaves are distorted and curved on themselves:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6296.jpg
Here is a close-up of the stem...it does not look like P. bipinnatifidum, with its rather persistent spines..
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6299.jpg
Here's P. bipinnatifidum for a comparison:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_6_25_asj_10.jpg
Leland was kind enough to send a pic for people to compare with the previous pics I sent...here:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/miyano_leland_IMG_0459.jpg
a san juan wrote: Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very pronounced tendency to CURL into itself. weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery leaves...
Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
brian lee wrote: Dear Arlan,
Aloha. That is definitely not Philodendron
adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I sent
you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
description.
Aloha,
Leland
--- a san juan wrote:
> Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> is identical from end to end....
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
>
>
>
> a san juan wrote: No
> problem....let me take a pic and post it....
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
> >From : a san juan
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> ex: Brazil
>
> Dear Arlan,
>
> This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo of
> a leaf of the plant in
> question!!
> Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> plants that grew from seed
> labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> be 'something' close to
> P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> adamantinium or P.
> saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such
> plant, and I will forward
> it to you after this.
> Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> the distance from the
> BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> the mid rib DECREASES as
> you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> division up towards the
> petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is true
> of any P.
> bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me what
> you see in YOUR plant
> ex: Brian Williams!
> Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants grown
> for seed of P.
> bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> especially when compared to any
> plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> reasoning being that
> presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here in
> the U.S.A. are out of
> tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> and so will show little or
> no differences to each other. The plants from seed
> SHOULD show differences
> as they are NOT genitically alike!
>
> The Best,
>
> Julius Boos
>
> >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> adamantinum" and it looks like
> >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a P.
> bipinnatifidum at
> >>least.<<
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
>
>
> >From : Julius Boos
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> Amer. Co.
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> close to either solving OR
> giving up on this facet of my search for
> accuracy in this matter. I have
> not received any replies from anyone with whom
> Vic Soukup shared seeds,
> I
> can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> forward with information.
> I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D. a
> plant of any
> Meconostigma
> sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> those of us who may STILL
> have
> plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent from
> this Company. I could
> not
> do a comparison chart as I had planned, my old
> comp. (or my dumb brain)
> would not let it be.
> Google these species, there are GREAT photos out
> there, Arlan San Juan
> and
> David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> SO---here goes--
>
> Philo. bipinnatifidium.
>
> This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> seeds from Brazil, labeled
> as
> other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> here. It is a HUGE
> species,
> but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> sub-adult plants.
> Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> divisions that are
> bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> generally at least 6 cm. long.
> In
> juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes no
> bipinnate/secondary
> divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses (the
> spaces between the
> divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting from
> the tip of the leaf
> blade,
> and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> structures surrounding the
> point
> where the petiole joins the rhizome or 'trunk')
> are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> chessnut-red in color, easily
> detachable.
> Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> 6.5 wide X 5 cm high,
> colored
> light gray, with dark gray margins.
> Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> resemble P. saxicolum,
> but at
> this stage will have NO visible rhizome/trunk).
>
> P. adamintinum.
>
> This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> plants from 6 1/2"-13"
> long!
> Anterior divisions of leaf blade only sometimes
> have secondary
> divisions,
> very small/short, no more than just a 'scallop',
> under 1 cm long.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib DECREASE as
> you
> move from the tip upward toward the juncture of
> the petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules decidious (falling off),
> sometimes persistant,
> small,
> 0.1-0.2 mm.
> Leaf scars on rhizome/trunk are greenish-gray w/
> chessnut margins,
> elliptic
> to
> Petiole elliptic to round in cross section.
>
> P. saxicolum.
>
> Another smaller species.
> Leaf blade no longer then 12"- 18" , divisions
> not as deep as in
> near/adult
> P. bipinnatifidium or especially P. adamintinum,
> never divided.
> As in P. bipinnatifidium, the distances between
> the bottom of the
> sinuses
> and the midrib INCREASE from the tip upwards
> toward the juncture with
> the
> petiole.
>
> P. paludicola.
>
> Leaves held errect to semi-errect.
> No intravaginal squamules on THICK
> rhizome/trunk.
> Leaf blade with shallow divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib increase
> rapidly
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid96545367
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: kalim1998 at yahoo.com (a san juan) on 2007.10.15 at 04:04:15(16497)
heh...looks like brian and others have seen the same weird plants that i have...possible hybrids....
http://www.hort.net/lists/aroid-l/aug07/msg00008.html
| +More | |
a san juan wrote: One additional point....when i say "pruned", i actually removed ONE lower leaf, that's it....this plant generally has very few leaves, widely dispersed and spread out....the pumpkins in the background seem to fit the pic since the plant is sorta grotesque and "spindly", perfect for halloween....i was thinking that it's a weird P. bipinnatifidum, but the stems like i said do not seem to indicate it is that species (although i'm hardly an expert)....
a san juan wrote: Hi guys:
More pics from me and a pic from Leland Miyano....
Here is the overall look of the meconostigma aroid....i just pruned it so there are less leaves, but it generally is slow growing and has less leaves than my other aroids...In this this pic, note how ALL the leaves are distorted and curved on themselves:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6296.jpg
Here is a close-up of the stem...it does not look like P. bipinnatifidum, with its rather persistent spines..
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_10_15_d6299.jpg
Here's P. bipinnatifidum for a comparison:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_6_25_asj_10.jpg
Leland was kind enough to send a pic for people to compare with the previous pics I sent...here:
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/miyano_leland_IMG_0459.jpg
a san juan wrote: Yep, it has grown up quite a bit and it looks nothing like any aroid i've ever seen...the distance to the ribs is equal from tip to base all along the leaf, and the leaves are leathery and have a very pronounced tendency to CURL into itself. weird....looks cool though with the shiny leathery leaves...
Two pics of a young leaf...below it you can see darker colored, CURLED, leathery, older leaves.
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00028.jpg
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/temp/2007_10_13_d00025.jpg
brian lee wrote: Dear Arlan,
Aloha. That is definitely not Philodendron
adamantinum...compare that leaf with the scans I sent
you and also key it out using Julius Boos'
description.
Aloha,
Leland
--- a san juan wrote:
> Hmmm...now i'm not so sure what it is...it's very
> leathery and shiny, and the distance to the midrib
> is identical from end to end....
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2007_5_8_d5734.jpg
>
>
>
> a san juan wrote: No
> problem....let me take a pic and post it....
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
> >From : a san juan
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Monday, May 7, 2007 3:14 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : Re: [Aroid] I.D.'ing some Meconostigmas
> ex: Brazil
>
> Dear Arlan,
>
> This is good news! Please send me a jpeg/photo of
> a leaf of the plant in
> question!!
> Also, check my 'key' below, as some/most of the
> plants that grew from seed
> labeled as P. adamantinum and P. saxicolum grew to
> be 'something' close to
> P. bipinnatifidum/'selloum', but are deff. NOT P.
> adamantinium or P.
> saxicolum! I just received a photo of one such
> plant, and I will forward
> it to you after this.
> Also check my 'key' (below)---- in P. adamantinum,
> the distance from the
> BOTTOM of the sinuses (divisions) when measured to
> the mid rib DECREASES as
> you measure them from the tip of the anterior
> division up towards the
> petiole juncture, while exactly the OPPOSITE is true
> of any P.
> bipinnatifidium-type plant. Check and tell me what
> you see in YOUR plant
> ex: Brian Williams!
> Bear in mind that we should EXPECT the plants grown
> for seed of P.
> bipinnatifidium to vary from each other, and
> especially when compared to any
> plant of P. bipinnatifidium in the U.S.A., the
> reasoning being that
> presumably ALL P. bipinnatifidium/'selloum' here in
> the U.S.A. are out of
> tissue culture, and so are clones of one another,
> and so will show little or
> no differences to each other. The plants from seed
> SHOULD show differences
> as they are NOT genitically alike!
>
> The Best,
>
> Julius Boos
>
> >>I got one from brian williams labeled "P.
> adamantinum" and it looks like
> >>it is growing as such. It definitely is not a P.
> bipinnatifidum at
> >>least.<<
>
> Julius Boos wrote:
>
>
> >From : Julius Boos
> Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> Sent : Friday, May 4, 2007 9:20 AM
> To : aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> Subject : [Aroid-l] FW: Philo. sps. seeds, S.
> Amer. Co.
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Bear with me, I believe that we/I am pretty
> close to either solving OR
> giving up on this facet of my search for
> accuracy in this matter. I have
> not received any replies from anyone with whom
> Vic Soukup shared seeds,
> I
> can only HOPE that a few of you will step
> forward with information.
> I have made some notes on how anyone can I.D. a
> plant of any
> Meconostigma
> sp. mentioned by Vic (below), this may help
> those of us who may STILL
> have
> plants mislabeled and grown from seed sent from
> this Company. I could
> not
> do a comparison chart as I had planned, my old
> comp. (or my dumb brain)
> would not let it be.
> Google these species, there are GREAT photos out
> there, Arlan San Juan
> and
> David Scherberich`s sites come to mind.
> SO---here goes--
>
> Philo. bipinnatifidium.
>
> This seems to be the species that MOST of the
> seeds from Brazil, labeled
> as
> other species, grew up to be, so I will start
> here. It is a HUGE
> species,
> but we may have been dealing with smaller,
> sub-adult plants.
> Adult leaf blade often over 30" long, many
> divisions that are
> bipinnifed/divided, secondary divisions
> generally at least 6 cm. long.
> In
> juvenile/sub-adult plants there are sometimes no
> bipinnate/secondary
> divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses (the
> spaces between the
> divisions) and the midrib INCREASE starting from
> the tip of the leaf
> blade,
> and going upwards toward the juncture with the
> petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules (the many thorn-like
> structures surrounding the
> point
> where the petiole joins the rhizome or 'trunk')
> are long (5-12 mm, 2-4mm
> wide at base), flattened, pointed and
> chessnut-red in color, easily
> detachable.
> Leaf-scars on trunk are elongated/oval, aprox:
> 6.5 wide X 5 cm high,
> colored
> light gray, with dark gray margins.
> Petioles sulcate in cross section.
> (Juvenile plants of this species sometimes can
> resemble P. saxicolum,
> but at
> this stage will have NO visible rhizome/trunk).
>
> P. adamintinum.
>
> This is a SMALL species, leaf blades in adult
> plants from 6 1/2"-13"
> long!
> Anterior divisions of leaf blade only sometimes
> have secondary
> divisions,
> very small/short, no more than just a 'scallop',
> under 1 cm long.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib DECREASE as
> you
> move from the tip upward toward the juncture of
> the petiole.
> Intravaginal squamules decidious (falling off),
> sometimes persistant,
> small,
> 0.1-0.2 mm.
> Leaf scars on rhizome/trunk are greenish-gray w/
> chessnut margins,
> elliptic
> to
> Petiole elliptic to round in cross section.
>
> P. saxicolum.
>
> Another smaller species.
> Leaf blade no longer then 12"- 18" , divisions
> not as deep as in
> near/adult
> P. bipinnatifidium or especially P. adamintinum,
> never divided.
> As in P. bipinnatifidium, the distances between
> the bottom of the
> sinuses
> and the midrib INCREASE from the tip upwards
> toward the juncture with
> the
> petiole.
>
> P. paludicola.
>
> Leaves held errect to semi-errect.
> No intravaginal squamules on THICK
> rhizome/trunk.
> Leaf blade with shallow divisions.
> Distances between the bottom of the sinuses and
> the midrib increase
> rapidly
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> Aroid-l mailing list
> Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid96545367
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-L mailing list
Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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