When is a rain forest not a rain forest?

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.01 at 07:49:39(17509) Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous forest there too." This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html Steve +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/5f82a019/attachment.htm

From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.05.01 at 21:16:21(17520) Seve, You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only deciduous subtropical forest, in Panama or Southern Mexico down throught Brazil and other Southamerican countries you can find evergreen tropical rainforest, the same in Asia, down to about 20 deg. of N latitude there are deciduous forests and where the monsoon climate begins there equally start the rain forest. And of course it also depends from the subclimate, when it's dry and cold of too hot, the rainforest od not occur at all (like Sahara in Africa), the rainforest are present only in the narrow area between the tropics, the equatorial Africa. Every continent except Europe (and Antarctica :) ) has it's own belt of tropical rainforest. It is always cut by the Ecuator, then there are deserts, priairies and similar dry bioms, and as we go longer there are deciudous leaf-bearing (?) forest gradually replaced by the coniferous evergreens taygah. Also rainforest do do not occur in high mountains even when the latitude could allow them to grow there. +More ----- Original Message ----- From: ExoticRainforest To: Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous forest there too." This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html Steve __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/92c43b58/attachment-0001.htm

From: plantguy at zoominternet.net (Daniel Devor) on 2008.05.01 at 23:17:08(17522) Most people consider the coastal temperate rainforest extending from Oregon to Alaska to be a rainforest atleast in name and it is considered to have one of the most complex ecosystems in the world, although not as diverse as the tropical rainforests to which you refer......this obviously begs the question of exactly how a "rainforest" is defined. When you hike through it you are certainly overwhelmed by the understory plants, or atleast I was. So, are all texts inaccurate when they describe the forests of our pacific northwest this way? Just curious, Dan +More Dan Devor Gibsonia, PA ----- Original Message ----- From: Marek Argent To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? Seve, You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only deciduous subtropical forest, in Panama or Southern Mexico down throught Brazil and other Southamerican countries you can find evergreen tropical rainforest, the same in Asia, down to about 20 deg. of N latitude there are deciduous forests and where the monsoon climate begins there equally start the rain forest. And of course it also depends from the subclimate, when it's dry and cold of too hot, the rainforest od not occur at all (like Sahara in Africa), the rainforest are present only in the narrow area between the tropics, the equatorial Africa. Every continent except Europe (and Antarctica :) ) has it's own belt of tropical rainforest. It is always cut by the Ecuator, then there are deserts, priairies and similar dry bioms, and as we go longer there are deciudous leaf-bearing (?) forest gradually replaced by the coniferous evergreens taygah. Also rainforest do do not occur in high mountains even when the latitude could allow them to grow there. ----- Original Message ----- From: ExoticRainforest To: Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous forest there too." This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html Steve __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/dac1ec77/attachment-0001.htm

From: pjm at gol.com (Peter Matthews) on 2008.05.02 at 00:10:16(17523) Dear Steve, Maybe rainforests can gracefully mutate from one thing to another over time, and according to circumstances. In eastern Australia, there has been a long-term tussle between coastal rainforests (temperate to tropical) and the dry inland forests, which also vary from north to south. As a result, in the vicinity of coastal northern New South Wales, temperate to tropical rainforest elements encounter temperate to tropical dry forests, and a complex mosaic of different forest types can be seen over very short distances. The mosaics have their own kind of beauty, when seen from the air (even if pure rainforests exist, we should not regard them as the only kind of beauty). The mosaics may be created by fire and drought allowing dry forests to penetrate the rainforest areas, and by the opposite allowing rainforest to penetrate the dry forest areas. Pyromaniacal humans have had a hand in this over thousands of years, and probably also in central America, and in areas of Asia where tropical moonsoon regions have boundaries with temperate seasonal regions. I guess the herbs just have to do the best they can, while forest the and climate changes around them. I wonder what aroid seeds look like in arid and fire-prone areas. Peter +More On 5/1/2008, "Marek Argent" wrote: >Steve, > >You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only deciduous subtropical forest, in Panama or Southern Mexico down throught Brazil and other Southamerican countries you can find evergreen tropical rainforest, the same in Asia, down to about 20 deg. of N latitude there are deciduous forests and where the monsoon climate begins there equally start the rain forest. And of course it also depends from the subclimate, when it's dry and cold of too hot, the rainforest od not occur at all (like Sahara in Africa), the rainforest are present only in the narrow area between the tropics, the equatorial Africa. >Every continent except Europe (and Antarctica :) ) has it's own belt of tropical rainforest. It is always cut by the Ecuator, then there are deserts, priairies and similar dry bioms, and as we go longer there are deciudous leaf-bearing (?) forest gradually replaced by the coniferous evergreens taygah. Also rainforest do do not occur in high mountains even when the latitude could allow them to grow there. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ExoticRainforest > To: Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:49 AM > Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? > > > Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous forest there too." > > This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. > > I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! > > http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html > > Steve > > > __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > > Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > __________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > > Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > > >

From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?hermine=A9?=) on 2008.05.02 at 00:37:42(17525) At 02:16 PM 5/1/2008, you wrote: >Seve, > >You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only >deciduous subtropical forest, Uncle Wiki says: Temperate rainforests are rainforest in temperate regions. They can be found in North America (in the Pacific Northwest, the British Columbia Coast, and in the inland rainforest of the Rocky Mountain Trench east of Prince George) sometimes we used to call these cloudforests, which may be something we made up.... hermine +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/5cc4ea80/attachment-0001.htm

From: RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com (RAYMOMATTLA at cs.com) on 2008.05.02 at 03:17:57(17528) Steve, When I was in Costa Rica I noticed plenty of Epiphyllums growing on trees in areas of Tropical Moist Forest. They grow alongside Philodendron, Rhodospatha, Monstera, Anthurium, Syngoinium etc. etc. NOT a true rain (pluvial) forest, (Doesnt Colombia contain the only true lowland rainforest in South America?)... but not exactly a dry forest either. Michael Mattlage +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/ef82bb11/attachment.htm

From: soukupvg at email.uc.edu (Victor Soukup) on 2008.05.02 at 14:58:50(17530) Hi, Not to start any arguments, but there is rain forest in North America. It may not be tropical, but the maritime area of the Pacific Northwest, from Washington thru coastal British Colombia to Alaska is a "rain forest". I'm sure this note will make us all remember this fact and the need to preserve this forest system which the lumber industry wants to cut down. There is little of the diversity to be found in tropical rain forests but the trees are indeed magnificent. +More VicAt 11:16 PM 5/1/2008 +0200, you wrote: >Seve, > >You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only deciduous >subtropical forest, in Panama or Southern Mexico down throught Brazil and >other Southamerican countries you can find evergreen tropical rainforest, >the same in Asia, down to about 20 deg. of N latitude there are deciduous >forests and where the monsoon climate begins there equally start the rain >forest. And of course it also depends from the subclimate, when it's dry >and cold of too hot, the rainforest od not occur at all (like Sahara in >Africa), the rainforest are present only in the narrow area between the >tropics, the equatorial Africa. >Every continent except Europe (and Antarctica :) ) has it's own belt of >tropical rainforest. It is always cut by the Ecuator, then there are >deserts, priairies and similar dry bioms, and as we go longer there are >deciudous leaf-bearing (?) forest gradually replaced by the coniferous >evergreens taygah. Also rainforest do do not occur in high mountains even >when the latitude could allow them to grow there. >----- Original Message ----- >From: ExoticRainforest >To: Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest >Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:49 AM >Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? > >Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last >night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of >America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they >live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen >some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest >plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. >chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other >words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal >nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I >haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous >forest there too." > >This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain >forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are >known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood >that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the >dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and >obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. > >I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page >and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will >not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the >ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! > >http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html > >Steve > > >__________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > >Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 >http://www.nod32.com lub >http://www.nod32.pl > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > >__________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > >Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 >http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-L mailing list >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.02 at 22:53:27(17534) Michael, I've only been to Ecuador once and that was 20 years ago. So I can't speak with any accuracy, but I did receive this note today, "There is a true lowland tropical wet rainforest down near Tinalandia in Ecuador................. so the answer is no to the proposed question. The Choco certainly is a lowland wet forest also." Steve +More Steve, When I was in Costa Rica I noticed plenty of Epiphyllums growing on trees in areas of Tropical Moist Forest. They grow alongside Philodendron, Rhodospatha, Monstera, Anthurium, Syngoinium etc. etc. NOT a true rain (pluvial) forest, (Doesnt Colombia contain the only true lowland rainforest in South America?)... but not exactly a dry forest either. Michael Mattlage -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080502/c996ab25/attachment.htm

From: mossytrail at hctc.com (mossytrail) on 2008.05.03 at 02:27:15(17535) > sometimes we used to call these cloudforests, which may be > something we made up.... > > > hermine +More > Actually, I've only ever heard the term cloud forest refer to tropical montane wet forest types, where condensation from mountain clouds is a more important source of moisture than rainfall. Monteverde, Costa Rica is the best-known example of cloud forest. Jason Hernandez Naturalist-at-Large

From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.05.04 at 10:43:39(17545) ________________________________ > From: Steve at exoticrainforest.com > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:53:27 -0500 > Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? Dear Friends, Im MY silly opinion there are rain forests on BOTH sides of the Ecuadorian Andes. Any person who has actually visited these areas will have no doubt. I worked in the Ecuadorian Amazon for a couple of years, our center was in Lago Agrio, and to travel further East one had to put ones vehicle on a barge (the "Gabara") which would motor you across one of the fast-flowing branches of the upper Amazon. In this and surrounding areas it rained several times daily. Then at one rare moment in time, the rain stopped! No rain fell for one week, and the rivers ran dry, the trees in surrounding jungles began to wilt! Huge gravel trucks were actually able to drive across the bed of the now-dry Amazon! The usually muddy streets in Lago Argo were turned to dust, and the human waste (which was thrown out of doorways from chamber pots every morning) was churned into this dust. At the time I had contracted a cold in Quito, and this quickly turned to a BAD Pneumonia from breathing the dust/waste! So please don`t try to tell me that there are no rain forests in Ecuador! Some may make these fine definations after pouring over some illustration in an Atlas, but visit these areas, see the rain AND the Cacti growing on trees WAY up in the canopys, THEN talk. Julius +More > Michael, I've only been to Ecuador once and that was 20 years ago. So I can't speak with any accuracy, but I did receive this note today, "There is a true lowland tropical wet rainforest down near Tinalandia in Ecuador................. so the answer is no to the proposed question. The Choco certainly is a lowland wet forest also." > > Steve > > > Steve, When I was in Costa Rica I noticed plenty of Epiphyllums growing on trees in areas of Tropical Moist Forest. They grow alongside Philodendron, Rhodospatha, Monstera, Anthurium, Syngoinium etc. etc. NOT a true rain (pluvial) forest, (Doesnt Colombia contain the only true lowland rainforest in South America?)... but not exactly a dry forest either. > > Michael Mattlage

From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.05.04 at 10:50:48(17546) ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 10:58:50 -0400 > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > From: soukupvg at email.uc.edu > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? Dear Vic, There is NO argument, that area is a true rain forest, thanks for the reminder. Julius +More > Hi, > Not to start any arguments, but there is rain forest in North > America. It may not be tropical, but the maritime area of the Pacific > Northwest, from Washington thru coastal British Colombia to Alaska is a > "rain forest". I'm sure this note will make us all remember this fact and > the need to preserve this forest system which the lumber industry wants to > cut down. There is little of the diversity to be found in tropical rain > forests but the trees are indeed magnificent. > > VicAt 11:16 PM 5/1/2008 +0200, you wrote: > >Seve, > > > >You are right, in North America there are no rainforests, only deciduous > >subtropical forest, in Panama or Southern Mexico down throught Brazil and > >other Southamerican countries you can find evergreen tropical rainforest, > >the same in Asia, down to about 20 deg. of N latitude there are deciduous > >forests and where the monsoon climate begins there equally start the rain > >forest. And of course it also depends from the subclimate, when it's dry > >and cold of too hot, the rainforest od not occur at all (like Sahara in > >Africa), the rainforest are present only in the narrow area between the > >tropics, the equatorial Africa. > >Every continent except Europe (and Antarctica :) ) has it's own belt of > >tropical rainforest. It is always cut by the Ecuator, then there are > >deserts, priairies and similar dry bioms, and as we go longer there are > >deciudous leaf-bearing (?) forest gradually replaced by the coniferous > >evergreens taygah. Also rainforest do do not occur in high mountains even > >when the latitude could allow them to grow there. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: ExoticRainforest > >To: Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest > >Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:49 AM > >Subject: [Aroid-l] When is a rain forest not a rain forest? > > > >Well, now I'm terribly confused! A note published on the Aroid l last > >night from Leo Martin, director of the Cactus and Succulent Society of > >America indicates Epiphyllum species are not rain forest plants. But they > >live in rain forests. "Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen > >some of them in Mexico. There are indeed cacti that are rain forest > >plants but Epiphyllum in general aren't, with the possible exception of E. > >chrysocardium. They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other > >words, 4 months of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal > >nighttime dew.) Most (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I > >haven't been to Central America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous > >forest there too." > > > >This dilemma appears to involve the definition of what is and isn't a rain > >forest. I've read many times in Dr. Croat's material these forests are > >known to have dry, moist and wet regions and I thought I understood > >that. But now it appears I am left to consider plants that live in the > >dry region not to be rain forest plants. I'm really confused and > >obviously have a lot more to learn. But, I am trying. > > > >I spent a good deal of the night working Mr. Martin's note into the page > >and am doing my best to not take a position. I am not an expert and will > >not try to defend a position just because I don't understand all the > >ramifications. But this one is rattling my mind! > > > >http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Epiphyllum%20phyllanthus%20subsp.%20phyllanthus%20pc.html > > > >Steve > > > > > >__________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > > > >Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > >http://www.nod32.com lub > >http://www.nod32.pl > > > > > >---------- > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-L mailing list > >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > > > > >__________ NOD32 Informacje 3068 (20080501) __________ > > > >Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 > >http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aroid-L mailing list > >Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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