Epiphyllums/Off topic

From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.05.01 at 09:59:15(17512) ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:48:12 -0700 > From: leo at possi.org > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com > Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Epiphyllums Dear Friends, I am NOT a Cactus person, but will add my two cents to this mix. It appears that this ''debate'' is now centered around the narrow determination of the difference between a ''rain forest'' and a ''tropical deciduous forest". Being from Trinidad, and having traveled in Fr. Guyana, I can assure all that tree-growing Cacti I am familiar with, in most cases do NOT make a distinction, and that they do not suddenly stop growing or existing in what the experts consider ''true rain forests''. I have seen climbing epiphitic Cacti high in the wet canopy, who knows what genera they may be determined to belong to once they are collected, and Taxonomists get their hands on them. If, as it is being said, the range of the Cactus genus Epiphyllum is from Southern Mexico, all of Central America, and all down the Western side of S. America, I can assure all that in many of these areas, especially in Panama and W. Colombia, W. Bolivia and W. Brazil there are REAL rain forests with Cacti growing in them, I don`t know how many species and of what genera they may be! The discussion also got turned around, as it was Steve who was ''warning'' that the cacti in question would NOT tollerate a freeze, the other guy twisted this around to say that Steve had written that they WOULD take low temps./freezes. My two cents. +More Julius Boos WPB, FLORIDA Steve wrote > > > There is one individual on that site who keeps insisting Epiphyllum > > species are not a rain forest plant. Virtually everything I've been able > > to find and read indicates they are just that and are found from Southern > > Mexico, all of Central America, and in South America through Venezuela, > > the Guiana Shield, and all down the western side of the continent through > > Bolivia as well as in Brazil. I just can't figure out how an epiphytic > > plant that populates that region of the world could not be a rain forest > > species! > > Steve - They aren't rain forest plants. I've seen some of them in Mexico. > There are indeed cacti that are rain forest plants but Epiphyllum in > general aren't, with the possible exception of E. chrysocardium. > > They are denizens of tropical deciduous forest. In other words, 4 months > of summer rain, 8 months of no rain (but with normal nighttime dew.) Most > (not all) of Mexico has this climate regime. I haven't been to Central > America but there's plenty of tropical deciduous forest there too. > > The epi hybrids involve lots of other genera. The few species remaining in > Epiphyllum have nocturnal white flowers. The other colors in hybrids come > from other genera. The species may take a tiny amount of frost but almost > all the hybrids are extremely tender. > > Hardier plants with flowers similar to Epiphyllum are some of the > Selenicereus species. They are vining epiphytes that are what was > originally meant by "Queen of the Night Cactus." > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-L mailing list > Aroid-L at www.gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.01 at 14:31:11(17516) I appreciate that Julius. But I never intended to start a non-aroid discussion on Aroid l. I have sent a note to Dr. Croat in hopes he will provide me with a better description of what is scientifically understood to be a rain forest. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Dear Friends, I am NOT a Cactus person, but will add my two cents to this mix. It appears that this ''debate'' is now centered around the narrow determination of the difference between a ''rain forest'' and a ''tropical deciduous forest". Being from Trinidad, and having traveled in Fr. Guyana, I can assure all that tree-growing Cacti I am familiar with, in most cases do NOT make a distinction, and that they do not suddenly stop growing or existing in what the experts consider ''true rain forests''. I have seen climbing epiphitic Cacti high in the wet canopy, who knows what genera they may be determined to belong to once they are collected, and Taxonomists get their hands on them. If, as it is being said, the range of the Cactus genus Epiphyllum is from Southern Mexico, all of Central America, and all down the Western side of S. America, I can assure all that in many of these areas, especially in Panama and W. Colombia, W. Bolivia and W. Brazil there are REAL rain forests with Cacti growing in them, I don`t know how many species and of what genera they may be! The discussion also got turned around, as it was Steve who was ''warning'' that the cacti in question would NOT tollerate a freeze, the other guy twisted this around to say that Steve had written that they WOULD take low temps./freezes. My two cents. Julius Boos WPB, FLORIDA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/30e24334/attachment-0001.htm

From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?hermine=A9?=) on 2008.05.02 at 00:30:45(17524) At 07:31 AM 5/1/2008, you wrote: >I appreciate that Julius. But I never intended to start a non-aroid >discussion on Aroid l. I have sent a note to Dr. Croat in hopes he >will provide me with a better description of what is scientifically >understood to be a rain forest. this is what Wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainforest of course anything on Wiki you might have written yourself! hermine +More -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080501/ab22937b/attachment-0001.htm

From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.05.05 at 20:21:50(17555) Dear Steve: The term "rain forest" is not a standard or formal designation. In the Holdridge Life Zone System which I use the term "rain forest" is used in a variety of designations. A standard range of wetness would range from Tropical dry forest to Premontane dry forest to Tropical moist forest, Premontane wet forest, Tropical wet forest, Tropical rain forest, Premontane rain forest, Lower montane rainforest, Montane rain forest. The effective degree of wetness is the critical feature and may be owing to a lot of rain or a cooler temperature and thus a reduced amount of transevaporation so that a single life zone could range form sea level to 2000 m depending on the amount of precipitation. Pluvial lowland forest is the wettest, hottest and is rather restricted, known only from NW S. America in Colombia where it may rain 36 feet a year. Tom +More ________________________________ From: aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces at gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 9:31 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: [Aroid-l] Epiphyllums/Off topic I appreciate that Julius. But I never intended to start a non-aroid discussion on Aroid l. I have sent a note to Dr. Croat in hopes he will provide me with a better description of what is scientifically understood to be a rain forest. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Dear Friends, I am NOT a Cactus person, but will add my two cents to this mix. It appears that this ''debate'' is now centered around the narrow determination of the difference between a ''rain forest'' and a ''tropical deciduous forest". Being from Trinidad, and having traveled in Fr. Guyana, I can assure all that tree-growing Cacti I am familiar with, in most cases do NOT make a distinction, and that they do not suddenly stop growing or existing in what the experts consider ''true rain forests''. I have seen climbing epiphitic Cacti high in the wet canopy, who knows what genera they may be determined to belong to once they are collected, and Taxonomists get their hands on them. If, as it is being said, the range of the Cactus genus Epiphyllum is from Southern Mexico, all of Central America, and all down the Western side of S. America, I can assure all that in many of these areas, especially in Panama and W. Colombia, W. Bolivia and W. Brazil there are REAL rain forests with Cacti growing in them, I don`t know how many species and of what genera they may be! The discussion also got turned around, as it was Steve who was ''warning'' that the cacti in question would NOT tollerate a freeze, the other guy twisted this around to say that Steve had written that they WOULD take low temps./freezes. My two cents. Julius Boos WPB, FLORIDA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080505/98f825b9/attachment-0001.htm

From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.05.06 at 00:24:04(17557) Thanks for taking the time to respond Tom. That is a much better explanation than anything I've been able to find. I'll be out of touch for the next week or so. You guys hold down the fort! Steve +More Dear Steve: The term "rain forest" is not a standard or formal designation. In the Holdridge Life Zone System which I use the term "rain forest" is used in a variety of designations. A standard range of wetness would range from Tropical dry forest to Premontane dry forest to Tropical moist forest, Premontane wet forest, Tropical wet forest, Tropical rain forest, Premontane rain forest, Lower montane rainforest, Montane rain forest. The effective degree of wetness is the critical feature and may be owing to a lot of rain or a cooler temperature and thus a reduced amount of transevaporation so that a single life zone could range form sea level to 2000 m depending on the amount of precipitation. Pluvial lowland forest is the wettest, hottest and is rather restricted, known only from NW S. America in Colombia where it may rain 36 feet a year. Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/private/aroid-l/attachments/20080505/b931f5f9/attachment.htm

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