IAS Aroid Quasi Forum

About Aroid-L
 This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.

  Leaf unfolding
From: abri1973 at wp.pl (Marek Argent) on 2008.07.26 at 16:01:59(18251)

Hello,

Which of them is convolute and which involute? Is it correct what I drawn?

Marek

+More
From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.27 at 01:54:54(18256)
Hi Marek,

The drawing of convolute is involute; the involute is supervolute. It is useful to include an indication of the abaxial surface (by showing a 'V' shape to represent the mid-rib since if the convolute drawing is reversed ('V' on the 'inside' of the lamina) it would be revolute.

Very best

Pete

+More
From: ju-bo at msn.com (ju-bo at msn.com) on 2008.07.27 at 04:31:00(18259)
> > From: abri1973 at wp.pl
> > To: aroid-l at gizmoworks.com
> > Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:01:59 +0200
> > Subject: [Aroid-l] Leaf unfolding
>
> Dear Marek,
>
> Your drawings are labled opposite of what they should be.
> Involute vernation is defined as "A form of folding of a single leaf in which the two leaf margins are each inrolled without either clasping the other, as in Lagenandra".
> Convolute or supervolute is when one side of the leaf blade is wrapped around the other side.
> I hope this helps.

Julius

+More
From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 07:22:22(18261)
Dear Marek,

Aloha.

Convolute vernation is the unrolling of the leaves where the blade margins are curled inward towards the midrib. So, if your drawing shows the top of the leaf as the top of the illustration, it is upside down. In your photos, it would be rolled adaxially or toward the central plant axis. Contrast this with revolute leaf margins where the blade margins are rolled to the underside of the blade. Notice that I did not say revolute vernation. If we were discussing revolute leaf margins, your left image would be a cross section of this.

Involute simply means rolled along the longitudinal axis, so when applied to vernation or the unrolling of the emerging leaf, it resembles a shell spiral in cross section....as in your drawing.

I will not go into this, but, another type of vernation....which is seen in cycads of the genus, Cycas, is circinnate. I love watching new leaves unfurl.

Aloha,

Leland

+More
From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 08:15:40(18262)
Dear all,

Aloha.

Now I am confused. I would defer to Julius or Pete before accepting my statement. Off the top of my head, I convinced myself I knew of what I spoke...but reading Julius and Pete...I am mistaken. I certainly need tp upgrade my vernation information.

Aloha,

Leland

+More
From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 08:25:07(18263)
Dear Pete,

Aloha.

I was wrong all this time in my mind about these definitions too...Julius mentions that convolute also means supervolute...is this your understanding also?

Aloha,

Leland

+More
From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.07.27 at 08:28:55(18264)
Dear Julius,

Aloha.

I messed up on this...in my mind, I thought I had it right...but I was confused on these terms...time to re-program the synapses.

Aloha,

Leland

+More
From: botanist at malesiana.com (Peter Boyce) on 2008.07.28 at 23:49:48(18279)
Dear Leland and others,

I had to double check in Lindley's Introduction to Botany, an ancient but
absolutely fabulous ref. For those not able to trace this (it is 1832....)
Stern's magisterial Botanical Latin bases almost all of it's plant sources
to Lindley...

Pete

+More
Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.