Anthurium watermaliense Hort. ex L.H. Bailey & Nash

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2008.11.25 at 02:59:06(18755) I need some help from the Anthuriumexperts on Aroid l. I have been going through many of the pages on my ExoticRainforestwebsite trying to update pages and make sure the explanations are bothscientifically accurate and clear. I recently got around to Anthuriumwatermaliense and one of the first things I noticed that I had neverrealized before was the name! The name is Anthurium watermalienseHort. Ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash. What grabbed my attention this timewas the "Hort." and the "Ex." whichindicates a horticultural name that was formerly considered ascientific name. As a result I went to the International Plant Names Index (IPNI) http://www.ipni.org/index.html and found the name Anthuriumwatermaliense does not exist on that site So I went again for thethird or fourth time and reread Dr. Croat's description in his Annalsof the Missouri Botanical Garden 1983, Volume 70, #2. Dr. Croatexplains in that text that the name Anthurium watermaliense wasoriginally a horticultural name (Hort.) and was published in 1922 byLiberty Hyde Bailey Jr. (1858-1954) in his Cyclopedia of AmericanHorticulture. It did not appear the name Anthurium watermaliense hadever been officially published to science but only in horticulturalliterature. Then I found on a 2005 Aroid l the following post from Dr. Croat, "Ihave placed this in Section Pachyneurium owing to its involutevernation but it is an unusual member of that group for sure. I haveoften wondered if it might not be itself of hybrid origin." Dr.Croat then continued, "There are about a half dozen of thesecordate odd balls, A. standlyi, A. schottii, etc. Some are quiteattractive." Involute vernation refers to the way the margins(edges) of a new leaf blade are rolled inward on both margins as itbegins to emerge from the cataphylls. Since Dr. Croat is currently in Ecuador until near the end of the thirdweek of December I would love some input from those of you who haveoften provided accurate information before and are truly Anthuriumexperts to be certain Anthurium watermaliense is not considered aspecies. You can read what I've learned so far here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas HTML +More www.ExoticRainforest.com --------------070601040202020609070807

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2008.11.26 at 23:06:51(18757) Just a brief follow-up to the post Isent regarding Anthurium watermaliense on Monday. The more I try tolearn about this Anthurium the more the mystery appears todeepen as to whether or not it is truly a species. The Royal Botanic Garden Kew's International Plant Names Index(IPNI) http://www.ipni.org/index.html does not appear to recognize thename as a published scientific species. However, on the Royal BotanicGarden Kew website World Checklist of Selected Plant Familieshttp://apps.kew.org/wcsp/prepareChecklist.do;jsessionidÔE7F43755D6B641DF6FA10F93F2E1CB?checklist=selected_families%40%40256120920080337861 and the Kew's World Checklist of Monocotyledonshttp://apps.kew.org/wcsp/prepareChecklist.do;jsessionid66B95AAE9C6309C15676BF244455A0?checklist=monocots%40%40330251120080555342 the name does appear to be accepted and is listed as Anthuriumwatermaliense L.H.Bailey & Nash in L.H.Bailey, Stand. Cycl.Hort.: 303 (1914). The problem I am currently having is the "acceptedname" on the last two sources, even though they are part of the RoyalBotanic Garden Kew in London, appears to be the name accepted prior thecurrent name of AnthuriumwatermalienseHort. ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash, thus the "ex.". If any of the Anthurium experts on Aroid l has an answer to myquest to find out of Anthurium watermaliense is or is not an acceptedname and thus a species I would really appreciate the input. http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks again! Steve Lucas HTML +More www.ExoticRainforest.com Sent Monday, November 24, 2008: I need some help from the Anthuriumexperts on Aroid l. I have been going through many of the pages on my ExoticRainforestwebsite trying to update pages and make sure the explanations are bothscientifically accurate and clear. I recently got around to Anthuriumwatermaliense and one of the first things I noticed that I had neverrealized before was the name! The name is Anthurium watermalienseHort. ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash. What grabbed my attention this timewas the "Hort." and the "ex." whichindicates a horticultural name that was formerly considered ascientific name. As a result I went to the International Plant Names Index (IPNI) http://www.ipni.org/index.html and found the name Anthuriumwatermaliense does not exist on that site So I went again for thethird or fourth time and reread Dr. Croat's description in his Annalsof the Missouri Botanical Garden 1983, Volume 70, #2. Dr. Croatexplains in that text that the name Anthurium watermaliense wasoriginally a horticultural name (Hort.) and was published in 1922 byLiberty Hyde Bailey Jr. (1858-1954) in his Cyclopedia of AmericanHorticulture. It did not appear the name Anthurium watermaliense hadever been officially published to science but only in horticulturalliterature. Then I found on a 2005 Aroid l the following post from Dr. Croat, "Ihave placed this in Section Pachyneurium owing to its involutevernation but it is an unusual member of that group for sure. I haveoften wondered if it might not be itself of hybrid origin." Dr.Croat then continued, "There are about a half dozen of thesecordate odd balls, A. standlyi, A. schottii, etc. Some are quiteattractive." Involute vernation refers to the way the margins(edges) of a new leaf blade are rolled inward on both margins as itbegins to emerge from the cataphylls. Since Dr. Croat is currently in Ecuador until near the end of the thirdweek of December I would love some input from those of you who haveoften provided accurate information before and are truly Anthuriumexperts to be certain Anthurium watermaliense is not considered aspecies. You can read what I've learned so far here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com --------------020502010900000804030103

From: Jay Vannini <heloderma5 at hotmail.com> on 2008.11.27 at 16:43:08(18758) Steve:   I have both selfed and outcrossed A. watermaliense Hort. and after flowering F1s I see no evidence that it is a hybrid, natural or otherwise. I have also seen plants that meet overall ID criteria for this sp. in western Panamá.   There are a number of aroid spp. described from horticulture, I believe...'twas quite a common practice in the 19th century.   BTW - what is in wide cultivation in  the 'States as A. chamberlainii (the brown leafed, pink-tulip-type infl. thingie, not the true Venezuelan sp.) IS a hybrid, probably complex, with at least one parent/grandparent along the lines of A. nymphaeifolium.   J HTML +More Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:59:06 -0600 From: Steve@exoticrainforest.com To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l] Anthurium watermaliense Hort. ex L.H. Bailey & Nash I need some help from the Anthurium experts on Aroid l. I have been going through many of the pages on my ExoticRainforest website trying to update pages and make sure the explanations are both scientifically accurate and clear.  I recently got around to Anthurium watermaliense and one of the first things I noticed that I had never realized before was the name!  The name is Anthurium watermaliense Hort. Ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash.    What grabbed my attention this time was the "Hort." and the "Ex." which indicates a horticultural name that was formerly considered a scientific name. As a result I went to the International Plant Names Index (IPNI)  http://www.ipni.org/index.html  and found the name Anthurium watermaliense does not exist on that site  So I went again for the third or fourth time and reread Dr. Croat's description in his Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1983, Volume 70, #2.  Dr. Croat explains in that text that the name Anthurium watermaliense was originally a horticultural name (Hort.) and  was published in 1922 by Liberty Hyde Bailey Jr. (1858-1954) in his Cyclopedia of American Horticulture.  It did not appear the name Anthurium watermaliense had ever been officially published to science but only in horticultural literature. Then I found on a 2005 Aroid l the following post from Dr. Croat, "I have placed this in Section Pachyneurium owing to its involute vernation but it is an unusual member of that group for sure.   I have often wondered if it might not be itself of hybrid origin."   Dr. Croat then continued, "There are about a half dozen of these cordate odd balls, A. standlyi, A. schottii, etc.  Some are quite attractive."   Involute vernation refers to the way the margins (edges) of a new leaf blade are rolled inward on both margins as it begins to emerge from the cataphylls. Since Dr. Croat is currently in Ecuador until near the end of the third week of December I would love some input from those of you who have often provided accurate information before and are truly Anthurium experts to be certain Anthurium watermaliense is not considered a species.  You can read what I've learned so far here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more!--_5434ed47-3041-47e9-837d-6ecffeeff5a9_----==============s24926546020477798=

From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2008.11.27 at 18:51:36(18759) Hello Steve, As long as I know the name watermaliense it always seemed strange for me. All Anthuriums come from the Latin America The name Watermal sounds English or Dutch and the ending -iense indicates a name of a geographical origin. Here I found the explanation: http://www.tropicos.org/name/2105405 Another strange thing I found In this page that it is regarded as a species. Best, Marek HTML +More ----- Original Message ----- From: ExoticRainforest To: Discussion of aroids Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:59 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] Anthurium watermaliense Hort. ex L.H. Bailey & Nash I need some help from the Anthurium experts on Aroid l. I have been going through many of the pages on my ExoticRainforest website trying to update pages and make sure the explanations are both scientifically accurate and clear. I recently got around to Anthurium watermaliense and one of the first things I noticed that I had never realized before was the name! The name is Anthurium watermaliense Hort. Ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash. What grabbed my attention this time was the "Hort." and the "Ex." which indicates a horticultural name that was formerly considered a scientific name. As a result I went to the International Plant Names Index (IPNI) http://www.ipni.org/index.html and found the name Anthurium watermaliense does not exist on that site So I went again for the third or fourth time and reread Dr. Croat's description in his Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1983, Volume 70, #2. Dr. Croat explains in that text that the name Anthurium watermaliense was originally a horticultural name (Hort.) and was published in 1922 by Liberty Hyde Bailey Jr. (1858-1954) in his Cyclopedia of American Horticulture. It did not appear the name Anthurium watermaliense had ever been officially published to science but only in horticultural literature. Then I found on a 2005 Aroid l the following post from Dr. Croat, "I have placed this in Section Pachyneurium owing to its involute vernation but it is an unusual member of that group for sure. I have often wondered if it might not be itself of hybrid origin." Dr. Croat then continued, "There are about a half dozen of these cordate odd balls, A. standlyi, A. schottii, etc. Some are quite attractive." Involute vernation refers to the way the margins (edges) of a new leaf blade are rolled inward on both margins as it begins to emerge from the cataphylls. Since Dr. Croat is currently in Ecuador until near the end of the third week of December I would love some input from those of you who have often provided accurate information before and are truly Anthurium experts to be certain Anthurium watermaliense is not considered a species. You can read what I've learned so far here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com __________ NOD32 Informacje 3639 (20081125) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 3639 (20081125) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C950C9.8EC4CAC0----==============T10469113897690007=

From: ExoticRainforest <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2008.11.28 at 05:37:34(18760) Thanks both to Jay and Marek for theresponses! I too had found the appearance of Anthurium watermaliense on TROPICOSand two of the Kew's sites as being possibly a species' name but not onIPNI where it just doesn't appear On TROPICOS it does appear initalics on the first page but after that if you check the extra pagessuch as specimens and distribution it is not italicized and appears tobe a horticultural name rather than a species name. One of the firstthings I plan to ask Tom after his return from Ecuador is his currentposition on this plant! I did send a copy of my notes to Simon Mayo atKew in hopes I might get a better clarification on the officialscientific position. I know some of the good people at Kew do monitorthis forum since I've received private mail as a result of severalquestions I've raised here. If anyone is reading this one from Kew I'dreally like to get a response on the currently accepted position onwhether or not Anthurium watermaliense is a horticultural or a speciesname. Jay, I am curious how much variation you see in the inflorescence inCentral America? Thanks for the help guys! We'll be away for a few days spending timewith our kids and grandkids but I'll respond to anything on thissubject as soon as we get back. Steve Lucas HTML +More Marek Argent wrote: Hello Steve, As long as I know the name watermalienseit always seemed strange for me. All Anthuriums come from the LatinAmerica The name Watermal sounds English orDutch and the ending -iense indicates aname of a geographical origin. Here I found the explanation: http://www.tropicos.org/name/2105405 Another strange thing I found Inthis page that it is regarded as a species. Best, Marek -----Original Message ----- From: ExoticRainforest To: Discussion of aroids Sent:Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:59 AM Subject:[Aroid-l] Anthurium watermaliense Hort. ex L.H. Bailey & Nash I need some help from the Anthurium experts on Aroid l. I have been going through many of the pages on my ExoticRainforestwebsite trying to update pages and make sure the explanations are bothscientifically accurate and clear. I recently got around to Anthuriumwatermaliense and one of the first things I noticed that I had neverrealized before was the name! The name is Anthurium watermalienseHort. Ex. L.H. Bailey and Nash. What grabbed my attention this timewas the "Hort." and the "Ex." whichindicates a horticultural name that was formerly considered ascientific name. As a result I went to the International Plant Names Index (IPNI) http://www.ipni.org/index.html and found the name Anthurium watermaliense does not exist on that site So I went again for the third or fourth time and reread Dr. Croat'sdescription in his Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden 1983, Volume70, #2. Dr. Croat explains in that text that the name Anthuriumwatermaliense was originally a horticultural name (Hort.) and waspublished in 1922 by Liberty Hyde Bailey Jr. (1858-1954) in hisCyclopedia of American Horticulture. It did not appear the nameAnthurium watermaliense had ever been officially published to sciencebut only in horticultural literature. Then I found on a 2005 Aroid l the following post from Dr. Croat, "Ihave placed this in Section Pachyneurium owing to its involutevernation but it is an unusual member of that group for sure. I haveoften wondered if it might not be itself of hybrid origin." Dr.Croat then continued, "There are about a half dozen of thesecordate odd balls, A. standlyi, A. schottii, etc. Some are quiteattractive." Involute vernation refers to the way the margins(edges) of a new leaf blade are rolled inward on both margins as itbegins to emerge from the cataphylls. Since Dr. Croat is currently in Ecuador until near the end of the thirdweek of December I would love some input from those of you who haveoften provided accurate information before and are truly Anthuriumexperts to be certain Anthurium watermaliense is not considered aspecies. You can read what I've learned so far here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Anthurium%20watermaliense%20pc.html Thanks! Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com __________ NOD32 Informacje 3639 (20081125) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.comlub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l __________ NOD32 Informacje 3639 (20081125) __________ Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32 http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l --------------000108010509000400050000

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