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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
An Aroid greenhouse question
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.06 at 14:28:38(2232)
Dear Aroid people,
Can anyone give me some suggestions on choosing a greenhouse heater for my
greenhouse Aroids? My greenhouse isn't very big (9' X 15') with a covered
wagon top that reaches 10'. I've heard of kerosene, gas, wood and compost,
but the ones that appeal to me the most are kerosene and propane gas
heaters. Can anyone recommend a heater?
I hope this is an appropriate question for the list.
Thank you anyone,
Sue Zunino, Zone 9
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From: "Jared R. Shortman" <jared at libcong.com> on 1998.06.06 at 19:19:27(2233)
(this is always an appropriate question). I use kerosene in my greenhouse.
Before I went with it I heard all kinds of comments about using one-all from
people who didn't have one. It worked great this winter. There are no
problems if you keep it full of kerosene. Get one with a fan in it though so
that the heat is dispersed and not collected in one spot. Most new kerosene
heaters have a shutoff switch if you happen to forget to fill it, so don't
worry if you hear about greenhouses being coated with black smut from
heaters going empty.
I also have a couple of fans blowing around too because air movement is
important in keeping a greenhouse warm, otherwise you develop cold spots.
The annoying thing about kerosene (and propane) is that unless your heater
has a huge tank, you basically have to refill it every night. If you go away
at all in the winter you have to make sure that someone can and will do the
heater. Natural gas piped from the house would be optimum method of heating
and I think by next winter I will try to do this for all my greenhouses. I
think I bought my thermostat which hooks up to the plug in on the kerosene
heater (the best ones have electric switches) at Stuppys or at Hummert (both
mail order sources).
Jared R. Shortman
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jared@tucsongrowers.com
Tucson Growers
www.tucsongrowers.com
(520) 882-7060
2509 N. Campbell #338
Tucson, AZ 85719
-----Original Message-----
To: jared@libcong.com
Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 7:18 AM
Subject: An Aroid greenhouse question
>Dear Aroid people,
>
>Can anyone give me some suggestions on choosing a greenhouse heater for my
>greenhouse Aroids? My greenhouse isn't very big (9' X 15') with a covered
>wagon top that reaches 10'. I've heard of kerosene, gas, wood and compost,
>but the ones that appeal to me the most are kerosene and propane gas
>heaters. Can anyone recommend a heater?
>
>I hope this is an appropriate question for the list.
>
>Thank you anyone,
>Sue Zunino, Zone 9
>
>
>
>
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From: Plantbob at aol.com on 1998.06.06 at 19:24:20(2234)
Sue,
Heating a greenhouse full of any type of plant is always a challenge. I have
used
kerosene for years with no negative effect on my Aroids. It did effect my
orchids,
jades, and some of the other flowering plants such as passion flowers.
Now I use a wood burning stove. It is more work and mess, but it is clean
heat.
Just keep the humidity high.
I think the best heat is a vented natural gas heater, if the cost justifies
the pleasure
of the plants (most plant nuts like us will justify the cost). I plan on
converting to
natural gas in the near future.
Good luck in preparing for this winter, which I hope NEVER comes.
Bob Kleiser
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plantbob@aol.com
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From: "Jared R. Shortman" <jared at libcong.com> on 1998.06.07 at 03:17:26(2235)
Bob Kleiser,
What exactly happened to your orchids and other plants that you said was an
effect from kerosene heat? This concerns me being that I use kerosene.
Jared
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.07 at 15:20:22(2238)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD9267.32897D40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jared, Bob and Neal,
Thank you for your responces. I did a search on The Southern Burner =
Company and found this:
TheModel C-1 Unit Heater is an open flame heater that does not need =
to be vented. Although it does require a fresh or combustible air =
intake from the outside of the greenhouse. The C-1 is round in design - =
12.5 inches in diameter and 22 inches tall, constructed of non-rusting =
mill polished aluminum shell supporting a stainless steel burner rated =
at 20,000 B.T.U.
This is exactly what I was looking for. It also says: In Northern =
states, it is suggested that one unit be placed for every 150 to 175 =
square feet of floor space in a conventional greenhouse.
My greenhouse has 135 sq. ft., so this heater should work just right. =
I haven't seen the cost of one yet, but I'll find out Monday, which will =
probably curtail purchasing a years worth of Aroids.
Thank you all very much for the suggestions,
Sue Zunino
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------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD9267.32897D40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http-equiv=Content-Type>
Jared, Bob and Neal,
Thank you for your responces. I did a search on The Southern =
Burner
Company and found this:
TheModel C-1 Unit Heater is an open flame heater =
that
does not need to be vented. Although it does require a fresh or
combustible air intake from the outside of the greenhouse. The C-1 =
is
round in design - 12.5 inches in diameter and 22 inches tall, =
constructed of
non-rusting mill polished aluminum shell supporting a stainless steel =
burner
rated at 20,000 B.T.U.
This is exactly what I was looking for. It also
says: In Northern states, it is suggested that =
one unit
be placed for every 150 to 175 square feet of floor space in a =
conventional
greenhouse.
My greenhouse has 135 sq. ft., so this heater should work =
just
right. I haven't seen the cost of one yet, but I'll find out =
Monday, which
will probably curtail purchasing a years worth of Aroids.
Thank you all very much for the suggestions,
Sue Zunino
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD9267.32897D40--
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From: Plantbob at aol.com on 1998.06.07 at 15:27:54(2239)
In a nut shell, the buds turned yellow and dropped off before opening. The
jades
had leaf drop like it had been under watered. All flowering plants had the
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buds turn
yellow and drop. I suppose a good exhaust system would help.
Good luck,
Bob Kleiser
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway at compuserve.com> on 1998.06.07 at 15:31:43(2240)
Hi Folks,
=
> Can anyone give me some suggestions on choosing a greenhouse heater for=
my
> greenhouse Aroids? My greenhouse isn't very big (9' X 15') with a
covered
> wagon top that reaches 10'. I've heard of kerosene, gas, wood and
compost,
> but the ones that appeal to me the most are kerosene and propane gas
> heaters. Can anyone recommend a heater?
For my 10'x8' aluminium greenhouse, I used propane this winter to keep th=
e
temp at about 5'C (40'F). It worked well, and (unlike the kerosene heater=
s
I have used) you don't have to turn it on each night. However, burning th=
e
pilot light constantly is fairly expensive, and can most cost-effectively=
be done by heating to a higher temperature (the pilot light is on less, s=
o
a higher proportion of the gas is used for heating, even though it will
cost that bit more).
Propane is expensive (and if anyone in the UK uses propane they will know=
that the price varies a lot... Calor is almost 40 GBP/cylinder where my
local supplier's gas is 24 GBP for the same amount) where natural gas is
cheaper (I think you can convert propane heaters - natural gas heaters an=
d
vice versa), but remember the installation cost, especially if the neares=
t
pipeline is miles away, like in rural Herefordshire :-) Also remember the=
carbon monoxide risks if you live in your greenhouse like I do :-)
Anyway, hope this helps.
Kindest Regards,
Toby
--
Toby Marsden
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--
Orleton Manor, Orleton, LUDLOW
Salop, SY8 4HR, ENGLAND
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From: plantnut at shadow.net (Dewey Fisk) on 1998.06.07 at 18:21:18(2241)
In a "Nut Shell", with kerosene.... It is the fumes. The residual from
buring does not vent out easily and has an adverse effect.
Dewey
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In a nut shell, the buds turned yellow and dropped off before opening. The
>jades
>had leaf drop like it had been under watered. All flowering plants had the
>buds turn
>yellow and drop. I suppose a good exhaust system would help.
>Good luck,
>Bob Kleiser
Dewey E. Fisk, Plant Nut
THE PHILODENDRON PHREAQUE
Your Source for Tropical Araceae
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From: plantnut at shadow.net (Dewey Fisk) on 1998.06.07 at 18:25:55(2242)
Sue,
What is the fuel on your message below.....
Dewey
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>Jared, Bob and Neal,
>
>Thank you for your responces. I did a search on The Southern Burner =
>Company and found this:
>
> TheModel C-1 Unit Heater is an open flame heater that does not need =
>to be vented. Although it does require a fresh or combustible air =
>intake from the outside of the greenhouse. The C-1 is round in design - =
>12.5 inches in diameter and 22 inches tall, constructed of non-rusting =
>mill polished aluminum shell supporting a stainless steel burner rated =
>at 20,000 B.T.U.
>
>This is exactly what I was looking for. It also says: In Northern =
>states, it is suggested that one unit be placed for every 150 to 175 =
>square feet of floor space in a conventional greenhouse.
>
> My greenhouse has 135 sq. ft., so this heater should work just right. =
>I haven't seen the cost of one yet, but I'll find out Monday, which will =
>probably curtail purchasing a years worth of Aroids.
Dewey E. Fisk, Plant Nut
THE PHILODENDRON PHREAQUE
Your Source for Tropical Araceae
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.08 at 01:24:10(2243)
Dewey,
>What is the fuel on your message below.....<
Natural gas or LP. One model (A1) is vented in the sense it has a stove
pipe, the other (C1) is not, but requires a 2" to 3" vent pipe above the
greenhouse floor from the outside to: well, here's what they say:
" A 2" to 3" PVC air intake pipe should be installed as the figure shows.
The outside elbow should be turn down to keep out water and screened to keep
out rodents. Intake pipe can be offset to one side. It does not have to be
in center of heater. The pipe extending outside must be no more than 12"
from inside floor grade, and should stop about three inches from the heater,
and about four inches up from the floor."
I have natural gas not far from my greenhouse, so this would be an easy
setup for me.
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Sue
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From: plantnut at shadow.net (Dewey Fisk) on 1998.06.08 at 02:28:52(2244)
Sue,
This is good... just remember the longer the stove pipe... the more heat
you will obtain. It will not vent to the outside as fast... Lots of
luck...
Dewey
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>>What is the fuel on your message below.....<
>
>Natural gas or LP. One model (A1) is vented in the sense it has a stove
>pipe, the other (C1) is not, but requires a 2" to 3" vent pipe above the
>greenhouse floor from the outside to: well, here's what they say:
>
> " A 2" to 3" PVC air intake pipe should be installed as the figure shows.
>The outside elbow should be turn down to keep out water and screened to keep
>out rodents. Intake pipe can be offset to one side. It does not have to be
>in center of heater. The pipe extending outside must be no more than 12"
>from inside floor grade, and should stop about three inches from the heater,
>and about four inches up from the floor."
>
>I have natural gas not far from my greenhouse, so this would be an easy
>setup for me.
>
>Sue
Dewey E. Fisk, Plant Nut
THE PHILODENDRON PHREAQUE
Your Source for Tropical Araceae
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From: Don Burns <burns at mobot.org> on 1998.06.08 at 12:56:11(2245)
Aroiders,
Craig Allen of Fairchild Tropical Gardens in Miami posted this message to
the list early this morning. But because he had not subscribed to the
list in advance his message was rejected. I have resent it below in its
entirety.
Don
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Don Burns Plantation, FL USA Zone 10b
-----
Quote
Subject: Amorphophallus titanum blooming
One of the Amorphophallus titanum bulbs at the 'Windows to the Tropics'
conservatory in Fairchild Tropical Garden has produced an inflorescence. It
should be in bloom sometime between 6/8/98 and 6/12/98.
Craig M. Allen
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.08 at 18:59:04(2246)
Dewey,
>This is good... just remember the longer the stove pipe... the more heat
you will obtain. It will not vent to the outside as fast... Lots of
luck...<
I'm going to go with the non vented heater because there's just no way to
put a pipe through the ceiling of this greenhouse. I can leave the front
doors slid open to help with air circulation and vapor escape. I have one
fan going in there all the time, but I'll probably need to add another. Gas
heat produces moisture, doesn't it? I know when we use our wood stove in
the house, the mildew doesn't grow as well, but with our forced air gas
heater, mildew seems to hang around on the walls in the dark areas of the
house.
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Here's an update on my newly aquired plants. The Philo. sp. is planted in a
pot with a sphagnum totem behind it. Planted in the totem, is Anthurium
trinerve, P. tuxla (sprinkled here and there), A. bakerei, a tiny A.
clarinervium (that will probably tip the totem over in time), and a bright
verigated spider plant in the very top. Philo. sp's. leaves are reaching
out horizontally and the new leaf has fully emerged. It's a wonderful
plant, and is doing great right here in the center of my house.......on top
of the wood stove actually...of course we're not using it.
I haven't planted A. lucens with a totom yet, but it has been transplanted,
has new leaves developing and is doing great. Some of the little 'Pin
Cushion' Philo's. leaves melted away, but the top couple are strong. The
soil was pretty wet when it arrived, so I let at least the surface of the
soil dry out completely before I watered it again, and then I tried to water
the top surface only. I think it will be fine.
Thanks for the help,
Sue
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From: plantnut at shadow.net (Dewey Fisk) on 1998.06.09 at 01:16:57(2247)
Sounds good to me..... Have fun... and lots of it...
Dewey
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>>This is good... just remember the longer the stove pipe... the more heat
>you will obtain. It will not vent to the outside as fast... Lots of
>luck...<
>
>I'm going to go with the non vented heater because there's just no way to
>put a pipe through the ceiling of this greenhouse. I can leave the front
>doors slid open to help with air circulation and vapor escape. I have one
>fan going in there all the time, but I'll probably need to add another. Gas
>heat produces moisture, doesn't it? I know when we use our wood stove in
>the house, the mildew doesn't grow as well, but with our forced air gas
>heater, mildew seems to hang around on the walls in the dark areas of the
>house.
>
>Here's an update on my newly aquired plants. The Philo. sp. is planted in a
>pot with a sphagnum totem behind it. Planted in the totem, is Anthurium
>trinerve, P. tuxla (sprinkled here and there), A. bakerei, a tiny A.
>clarinervium (that will probably tip the totem over in time), and a bright
>verigated spider plant in the very top. Philo. sp's. leaves are reaching
>out horizontally and the new leaf has fully emerged. It's a wonderful
>plant, and is doing great right here in the center of my house.......on top
>of the wood stove actually...of course we're not using it.
>
>I haven't planted A. lucens with a totom yet, but it has been transplanted,
>has new leaves developing and is doing great. Some of the little 'Pin
>Cushion' Philo's. leaves melted away, but the top couple are strong. The
>soil was pretty wet when it arrived, so I let at least the surface of the
>soil dry out completely before I watered it again, and then I tried to water
>the top surface only. I think it will be fine.
>
>Thanks for the help,
>Sue
Dewey E. Fisk, Plant Nut
THE PHILODENDRON PHREAQUE
Your Source for Tropical Araceae
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.09 at 16:11:50(2248)
Thank you to everybody who had input into helping me find a good greenhouse
heater. It is very much appreciated. BUT, I have another Aroid greenhouse
question (as if everyone didn't know I would).
Once I get my greenhouse heated, I still have COLD water coming through the
pipes. I've been thinking about this being a problem. I have spray
emitters right down the middle of the greenhouse on timers. It's just a
matter of time before the warm water already in the pipes, gets cold. Not
to mention the hose water. I don't think this is ok.....or is it?
Sue Zunino
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From: ERTELTJB at ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu on 1998.06.09 at 20:05:35(2251)
Sue -
My sense is that if you're only growing aroids, then there probably
isn't a problem with water temp., that is, I've not noticed a problem with
any of the aroids I've grown over the last 20 yrs. as a result of cold water.
Same is true for the vast majority if not all orchids. However, if you're
slipping some Begonias into the mix, or gesneriads (members of the African
violet family) then cold water is going to be a real problem, both misting
and watering. I've successfully tied in hot water through a variety of
mixing valves (I've held four positions and worked with 4 different mixing
valves), so that as the ambient water temp. dropped through the winter months,
I could gradually increase hot water mixed with it to keep the watering temp.
between 68 - 75 degrees F. Nothing complains from this, and for the more
sensitive plants which I've mentioned (and there may be others), it is crucial.
Good Growing.
- Jonathan Ertelt
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.10 at 02:30:07(2255)
Gary, Neal, Don and Jonathan,
I do have mostly Aroids, but it's interesting that some have mentioned
Begonias. I happened to notice (at our local Dept. of Ag.) a plain old
Angel Wing Begonia that had climbed to a hight of about 10' using other
plants to get there, and I was going to see if I could get one to climb in
the greenhouse. I do have one little Begonia in there now that hasn't
seemed to mind the temps. much, but it isn't in direct line with the
watering system. It gets overspray, and that's about it. I do want to
think about what other plants I might want to add. There is another heating
system that I have mulled around, and that is a radiator heater for big
trucks, but this would require a radiator with a thermostat, and I just
can't picture how to set it up. I had origanally thought of using it for
the heating system itself, with pipes under the floor. I don't have a lot
of room in the greenhouse, so setting a tank in there would mean less plants
(who wants less plants?). Gary, I would like to hear more about this
system....even though I don't fully understand how you've got it set up. Is
your chest freezer outside or inside?
I really like the idea of the thermostatically controlled water mixing
valve. This would allow me to add whatever plants I like, and would just
require extending my hot water pipe to the greenhouse, or I might be able to
mix and match on the house end? This sounds simple, and it would cover
safety for any plants I choose.
>I noticed neat little water
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heaters attached to the shower unit in the bathrooms of some hotels and
guest houses. The water was heated just before it came out of the
showerhead, I think by some sort of natural-gas-burning system. <
This is another great idea, Neal. I'm wondering what it's called, and
where one might look to find it. It might even be simpler to attatch to the
cold water line at the house, where my gas line is, and not even have to
take gas to the greenhouse.
Thank you all,
Sue Zunino
Thank you,
Sue Zunino
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.10 at 12:53:51(2258)
To all interested,
In case anyone else is thinking about a S.B. greenhouse heater, and would
like to know how much they cost, I called the Southern Burner Co. and got
prices. The A1 model / with stove pipe and two stage thermostat runs
$512.00 + $35.00 shipping (that's to CA.). The smaller C1 model / without
venting pipe and with the one stage thermostat, is $345.00 + $25.00
shipping, and the C1 with the two stage thermostat runs $420.00 + shipping.
They can get it to CA within 5 working day by UPS.
Sue Zunino
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From: MJ Hatfield <oneota at ames.net> on 1998.06.10 at 13:07:24(2261)
Sue,
We've been using one of those small, hang on the wall, instantaneous
water heaters for 18 years to heat our whole house. They work great and
take up very little room as there is no storage tank for the hot water.
Ours happens to be fueled by propane altho now that natural gas has been
run out here, we may switch.
MJ
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From: Gary Meltzer <kathann1 at tsoft.com> on 1998.06.10 at 19:03:43(2264)
Gary, I would like to hear more about this
system....even though I don't fully understand how you've got it set up.
Is
your chest freezer outside or inside?
Hi Sue,
Sorry that my explanation was so lacking in accuracy. The tank is
inside the greenhouse, and sits on the floor in about the center.
This tank was the inner lining of a chest freezer that I stripped of the
outer metal skin, and all of the insulation. I then washed the
outside with TSP and detergent, rinsed well, and sprayed flat black to
absorb the sun's heat. I did put the tank on a section of 4"
rigid wall insulation trimmed to fit with a knife, to prevent loss of
heat into the substrate. Additionally, I use a small infrared space
heater ($16 at Kmart when I bought it in Oct., '96) that is propane
fired, placed 1 foot away from the end of the tank and aimed directly at
it. This is only fired up when the temperature drops below 45
degrees more or less, and works great. The heat that is absorbed by
the water through the tank walls is even and more equally distributed by
radiation rather than heading straight up.
I have an economical method of keeping the water temperature even
throughout the tank at all times, but don't want to bore everyone with
it.
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I can draw a diagram and scan it, but being rather new to this dumb
machine, I'm not sure how long it will take me to figure out how to post
it. If you are in a hurry, send me your snail mail address and I'll
send you a copy.
Someone did mention that the longer the stove vent pipt, the more heat is
captured. Be careful though, the exhaust gasses must be hot enough
to be vented out. Building codes are based upon these requirements
for safety. The non-vented greenhouse heater is an easier and
better ( in my opinion) way to go. I also keep some livestock in my
greenhouse in addition to the fish in the tank.
Keep having fun! Gary Meltzer
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From: "Sue Zunino" <suez at Northcoast.com> on 1998.06.10 at 21:30:52(2265)
MJ,
Thanks for mentioning this, because I was going to let these pass by. This
type would be ideal, but I had pretty much forgotten it because they seem to
be so expensive. What brand is it? Sears carries instantaneous heaters,
but I've not seen a very small one there. How small do they come?
Thanks,
Sue
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Note: this is a very old post, so no reply function is available.
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