gigantic leaf species around the world

From: Krzysztof Kozminski <kk at netgate.net> on 1998.08.13 at 04:07:42(2525) Hi, all I received the enclosed email, but there are many more qualified people in aroid-l to answer this question than myself, so I'm forwarding it to the collective attention of aroid-l... +More > From: Babirussa8@aol.com > > I am interested in locating the largest undivided leaves in the world. > (...) It seems there are two families with gigantic leaves: Xanthosoma > Saggitifolia and Alocosia Macrorrhiza (...) I am curious about how large > they have been documented in the wild, and of course, in what parts of the > world. If it is not too much trouble, please provide as exact dimensions > and locations as possible. I have listed my address and phone below, or > you may simply RE this message to my email. Thank you for your time and > assistance. > > Sincerely, > > Daisuke Shintani > PO Box 674 > Reigelsville, PA 18077 > (610) 749 - 0401 ----- On a separate topic, there's been a bunch of updates to my aroid pages - some of the more interesting ones are: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Arum/hygrophilum.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/crassifolia.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/micholitziana.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Xanthosoma/maffafa_aurea.html I also have four unidentified alocasia hybrids; if someone could ID them, I'd really appreciate it. http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.B.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.D.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.E.html as well as two anthuriums: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.html (my guesses: veitschii and andreanum ?) Finally, if anyone finds that the old bookmarks to my pages don't work, it is because for some unfathomable reason my IP provider decided that personal pages cannot be reached via www.netgate.net any more, and have to be specified with u1,netgate.net instead ... Cheers KK ==================== Krzysztof Kozminski kk@netgate.net http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 1998.08.13 at 14:59:08(2527) >>Hi, all I received the enclosed email, but there are many more qualified people in aroid-l to answer this question than myself, so I'm forwarding it to the +More collective attention of aroid-l...<< > From: Babirussa8@aol.com > > I am interested in locating the largest undivided leaves in the world. > (...) It seems there are two families with gigantic leaves: Xanthosoma > Saggitifolia and Alocosia Macrorrhiza (...) I am curious about how large > they have been documented in the wild, and of course, in what parts of the > world. If it is not too much trouble, please provide as exact dimensions > and locations as possible. I have listed my address and phone below, or > you may simply RE this message to my email. Thank you for your time and > assistance. > > Sincerely, > > Daisuke Shintani > PO Box 674 > Reigelsville, PA 18077 > (610) 749 - 0401 Dear Krzytof, His e-mail name caught my eye, it refers (I believe) to a large species of Indonesian pig with the upper tusks that penetrate the upper face to curve like horns above the head! There is a photo in a book by David Fairchild, "Garden Islands of the East", I believe is the name, with a photo of a man on a beach standing next to a cut leaf of Cyrtosperma merkusi, and the leaf (petiole and blade) is close to 18 ft. tall. I have a xerox copy of it somewhere around and could dig it up if required. There is also a photo in one of the big plant volumes like exotica or somesuch of a HUGE Alocasis with a full sized man dwarfed by it. I have not seen Xanthosoma of near these sizes, even in the wild (S. America) Cheers, Julius ju-bo@msn.com

From: alistair_hay_at_po-sydney at rbgsyd.gov.au on 1998.08.14 at 00:52:34(2530) In the aroids, the largest undivided leaf I know of is that of Alocasia robusta, which is found in North West Borneo, and the Natuna Islands. The largest leaves recorded (by Tony Lamb) had blades about 15 feet long and 8 feet wide, on petioles about 18 feet long. This was on a plant growing in Sabah. This species has often been misidentified as Alocasia macrorrhizos, which, though large, is much smaller than A. robusta. A. robusta was the species in Attenborough's film. Whether this is the largest undivided leaf is a matter of interpretation. Palm leaves develop undivided and then tear themselves up - of course there are many examples of enormous palm leaves. Banana leaves also develop undivided and are constructed such that they shred in the wind in a fairly organised fashion. Some species, such as New Guinea Musa ingens, are truly gigantic, with the leaf sheath alone reaching about 20 feet in length. Alistair Hay +More ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: gigantic leaf species around the world Author: at mailgate Date: 8/12/98 11:16 PM Hi, all I received the enclosed email, but there are many more qualified people in aroid-l to answer this question than myself, so I'm forwarding it to the collective attention of aroid-l... > From: Babirussa8@aol.com > > I am interested in locating the largest undivided leaves in the world. > (...) It seems there are two families with gigantic leaves: Xanthosoma > Saggitifolia and Alocosia Macrorrhiza (...) I am curious about how large > they have been documented in the wild, and of course, in what parts of the > world. If it is not too much trouble, please provide as exact dimensions > and locations as possible. I have listed my address and phone below, or > you may simply RE this message to my email. Thank you for your time and > assistance. > > Sincerely, > > Daisuke Shintani > PO Box 674 > Reigelsville, PA 18077 > (610) 749 - 0401 ----- On a separate topic, there's been a bunch of updates to my aroid pages - some of the more interesting ones are: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Arum/hygrophilum.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/crassifolia.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/micholitziana.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Xanthosoma/maffafa_aurea.html I also have four unidentified alocasia hybrids; if someone could ID them, I'd really appreciate it. http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.B.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.D.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.E.html as well as two anthuriums: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.html (my guesses: veitschii and andreanum ?) Finally, if anyone finds that the old bookmarks to my pages don't work, it is because for some unfathomable reason my IP provider decided that personal pages cannot be reached via www.netgate.net any more, and have to be specified with u1,netgate.net instead ... Cheers KK ==================== Krzysztof Kozminski kk@netgate.net http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/

From: Steve Marak <samarak at arachne.uark.edu> on 1998.08.14 at 05:29:20(2533) I checked Attenborough's book of "The Private Life of Plants" to see if there was any more information, but nothing substantive. On page 47, "The biggest undivided leaf of all belongs to a giant edible aroid that grows in marshy parts of the tropical rain forest in Borneo. One of its heart-shaped leaves may be ten feet across and have a surface area of over thiry square feet." There is a picture on the same page, of large leaves of the general shape and upright appearance of Alocasia macrorrhizos, with no identification. The proportions he mentions certainly match closely those Dr. Hay cited for A. robusta. Steve +More -- Steve Marak -- samarak@arachne.uark.edu

From: alistair_hay_at_po-sydney at rbgsyd.gov.au on 1998.08.14 at 14:12:11(2534) Dear Krzysztof, I have had a look at your interesting Alocasia images: A. crassifolia is correctly Alocasia alba (crassifolia is a synonym), originating in Java. A. `californica' is A. brisbanensis, native to Eastern Australia A. quilted dreams appears to be an undescribed species. A. green velvet appears to be A. micholitziana, which in the wild is quite a variable species - so several forms of it have got into cultivation (Philippines) A. Borneo Giant appears to be A. longiloba `korthalsii'. A. black velvet is an undescribed species. Have you got any more flowers that could be preserved in alcohol, so that this species can be properly described and named?? Your A. macrorrhiza appears to be A. odora - the leaves are pelate in odora, not in macrorrhizos (another very variable species of which several forms are cultivated) Alocasia ?Elaine matches Alocasia sinuata (originally described from the Philippines, but actually Bornean). Alocasia ?cuprea relative seems to be Alocasia clypeolata (an new species shortly to be published) (Philippines) ?= Green Shield? Alocasia wentii = Alocasia x sedenii (true wentii is not cultivated anywhere as far as I know - it is a small, obscure species from remote mountains of New Guinea) `Really pretty Alocasia' looks like a non-peltate form of A. reversa (Sarawak) All best Alistair Hay +More ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: gigantic leaf species around the world Author: at mailgate Date: 8/12/98 11:16 PM Hi, all I received the enclosed email, but there are many more qualified people in aroid-l to answer this question than myself, so I'm forwarding it to the collective attention of aroid-l... > From: Babirussa8@aol.com > > I am interested in locating the largest undivided leaves in the world. > (...) It seems there are two families with gigantic leaves: Xanthosoma > Saggitifolia and Alocosia Macrorrhiza (...) I am curious about how large > they have been documented in the wild, and of course, in what parts of the > world. If it is not too much trouble, please provide as exact dimensions > and locations as possible. I have listed my address and phone below, or > you may simply RE this message to my email. Thank you for your time and > assistance. > > Sincerely, > > Daisuke Shintani > PO Box 674 > Reigelsville, PA 18077 > (610) 749 - 0401 ----- On a separate topic, there's been a bunch of updates to my aroid pages - some of the more interesting ones are: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Arum/hygrophilum.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/crassifolia.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/micholitziana.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Xanthosoma/maffafa_aurea.html I also have four unidentified alocasia hybrids; if someone could ID them, I'd really appreciate it. http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.B.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.D.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/unknown.E.html as well as two anthuriums: http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.A.html http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Anthurium/unknown.html (my guesses: veitschii and andreanum ?) Finally, if anyone finds that the old bookmarks to my pages don't work, it is because for some unfathomable reason my IP provider decided that personal pages cannot be reached via www.netgate.net any more, and have to be specified with u1,netgate.net instead ... Cheers KK ==================== Krzysztof Kozminski kk@netgate.net http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/

From: alistair_hay_at_po-sydney at rbgsyd.gov.au on 1998.08.14 at 14:18:43(2535) Whether the photo in Attenborough's book is A. robusta I am not sure (though proper A. robusta was in the video): the characteristic glaucous leaf underside is not visible, and the rpimary veins to not seem to be as widely spaced as is typical for A. robusta. I suspect the photo is of big plants of A. macrorrhizos (there is nothing to indicate scale). Presumably he means 10 feet long....... 10 feet across and a surface area of 30 square feet would be a very odd shape for a leaf.... I have seen no record of A. robusta being edible, and suspect that this statement came from confusion with macrorrhizos. The bit (also p.47) about `on the floor of a well-established forest, the light may be very dim indeed. Some plants deal with the problem by growing extremely large leaves' is complete drivel in relation to the example he cites!! The giant Alocasias habitually occupy ground under canopy gaps, river banks, road side ditches, open marshes, plantations, landslips etc. where there are high light levels. Alistair Hay +More ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: gigantic leaf species around the world Author: at mailgate Date: 8/14/98 3:22 PM I checked Attenborough's book of "The Private Life of Plants" to see if there was any more information, but nothing substantive. On page 47, "The biggest undivided leaf of all belongs to a giant edible aroid that grows in marshy parts of the tropical rain forest in Borneo. One of its heart-shaped leaves may be ten feet across and have a surface area of over thiry square feet." There is a picture on the same page, of large leaves of the general shape and upright appearance of Alocasia macrorrhizos, with no identification. The proportions he mentions certainly match closely those Dr. Hay cited for A. robusta. Steve -- Steve Marak -- samarak@arachne.uark.edu

From: Krzysztof Kozminski <kk at netgate.net> on 1998.08.14 at 19:43:02(2536) Wow, thanx for getting my names straight. I'll have to fix a bunch of pages ... On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 alistair_hay_at_po-sydney@rbgsyd.gov.au wrote: +More > A. Borneo Giant appears to be A. longiloba `korthalsii'. After it sprouted two more leaves, it appeared to be a regular A.x amazonica, unfortunately, it has succumbed to some quick-acting malady- it was just fine all the time I had it, and rotten dead a week later ... > A. `californica' is A. brisbanensis, native to Eastern Australia Thanx, I was just about to send out another cry for help in determining this species, since the inflorescence photos were just recently added. Now I'll have to search for the real A.californica ... > A. green velvet appears to be A. micholitziana, which in the wild is > quite a variable species - so several forms of it have got into > cultivation (Philippines) I was wondering about this one. All photos of A. micholitziana I've seen looked mor like what I have photographed at UC Berkeley greenhouses and put on http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/Araceae/Alocasia/micholitziana.html. The shape of the leaves og 'green velvet' seems to be so different from the one above, I would never suspect it was the same species. Furthermore, Deni Bown's book described A.micholitziana as rather difficult to grow, and 'green velvet' is almost weedy... Oh, well, live & learn ... > A. black velvet is an undescribed species. Have you got any more > flowers that could be preserved in alcohol, so that this species can > be properly described and named?? I can try to do this, if I only knew the proper procedure (e.g., what kind of alcohol: isopropyl. ethanol, or what?). Also, who would be the proper person to whom to send the specimen? Finally, it seems that my two plants are done for this year with flowering, but there are many other people who are growing this thing, so I'd expect someone else might be able to provide the specimen before my plants go into the flowering mode again (assuming I won't kill them - I just can't figure out hwo to grow this species right). Did 'black velvet' flower for anyone out there on aroid-l? KK ==================== Krzysztof Kozminski kk@netgate.net http://u1.netgate.net/~kk/

From: anggrek at juno.com (Tsuh Yang Chen) on 1998.08.14 at 22:41:51(2537) hi, julius, babirusa does refer to the wild boar of sulawesi, in which the males's tusks grow up and through their flesh and skin and protrude out. from the malay, babi (pig) rusa (deer). i thought david attenborough said in his book that Alocasia laportei had the largest non-segmented leaves in the world. tsuh yang chen, new york city +More _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 1998.08.15 at 04:59:34(2538) >>hi, julius, babirusa does refer to the wild boar of sulawesi, in which the males's tusks grow up and through their flesh and skin and protrude out. from the malay, babi (pig) rusa (deer). i thought david attenborough said in his book that Alocasia laportei had the largest non-segmented leaves in the world. tsuh yang chen, new york city< Dear Tsuh Yang Chen, Good to hear from you. It would be interesting to find out why he used the name of this rare and unique animal as his e-mail address! Was he in some way connected with research into them??? Or does he just admire them as I do??? Cheers, Julius +More ju-bo@msn.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

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