amorpho titanium pollen !!!

From: "brian williams" pugturd50 at hotmail.com> on 2001.06.13 at 21:40:13(6717) Hello! I have a friend who has a basket ball size titanium. He just got the bulb this year and it is getting ready to bloom. I would like to know what size flower can he expect also does anyone have some pollen to spare to see if he can produce some seeds? If you have any instructions to help him out would be great. I have done a few hybrids but never used frozen pollen or know which way is the best to cut on the titanium? Cut the whole spathe off or just a square? also when she he do the pollen? THANKS Please e mail me at Pugturd@aol.com +More _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.06.19 at 22:10:28(6756) Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. I guess for aroids the female flowers are receptive as soon as the spathe opens, the males wait a while and then shed pollen which then can be used. Good luck! Bonaventure +More "brian williams" @mobot.org on 06/13/2001 05:40:18 PM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: amorpho titanium pollen !!! Hello! I have a friend who has a basket ball size titanium. He just got the bulb this year and it is getting ready to bloom. I would like to know what size flower can he expect also does anyone have some pollen to spare to see if he can produce some seeds? If you have any instructions to help him out would be great. I have done a few hybrids but never used frozen pollen or know which way is the best to cut on the titanium? Cut the whole spathe off or just a square? also when she he do the pollen? THANKS Please e mail me at Pugturd@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: GeoffAroid at aol.com on 2001.06.20 at 06:44:03(6758) In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes: << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >> I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to divide +More of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought...... Geoffrey Kibby London

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.20 at 15:18:03(6768) Fainted does not even BEGIN to describe the sheer horror.......... Faintbert ----- Original Message ----- +More To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: woensdag 20 juni 2001 8:43 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > > In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes: > > << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >> > > I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to divide > of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind > boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought...... > > Geoffrey Kibby > London >

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.06.20 at 19:50:28(6769) Yes, imagine a paeonifolius "super-sized": or on a taller stem like that of gigas! Howbout novel colorpatterns from breeding with albispathus? C'mon Wilbert! Its done with Anthurium and Spathiphyllum! Bonaventure W. Magrys +More Cliffwood Beach, NJ GeoffAroid@aol.com@mobot.org on 06/20/2001 02:44:08 AM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes: << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >> I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to divide of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought...... Geoffrey Kibby London

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.20 at 23:22:47(6774) | | Yes, imagine a paeonifolius "super-sized": or on a taller stem like that of | gigas! Howbout novel colorpatterns from breeding with albispathus? | C'mon Wilbert! Its done with Anthurium and Spathiphyllum! | Bonaventure W. Magrys | Cliffwood Beach, NJ Bonaventure! Your mention of Spathiphyllum has brought me into this. I have Wilbert's & friends' wonderful monograph on Amorphophallus, Even though to me they are hellish in contrast to heavenly Peace Lilies please can I write my thoughts? Many generations of haphazard & usually undocumented hybridisation of Spathiphyllum has produced chaos. Spectacular "artificial" cultivars now reign where only elegantly adapted natural species existed before. Species evolved over the mists of time to suit their ecological niches, exactly. Cultivars for Man's "ornament" unrelated to natural evolution & sometimes degrading of Natural fitness. Most could not survive true competition in the wild. Is it to be the same history with everything when Man's curiosity leads him to try to "improve" upon Nature. If so, then a plea to keep wild species integrity in cultivation. Another plea objectively to document heritages & pedigrees of all "hybrids" most carefully before allocating meaningless "names". There is hardly a group of "domesticated" animals or plants which Man has not tried to improve upon to the detriment & often loss of the "wild" species. But one example dear to me is Symphysodon, "Discus", arguably the "King" of Aquarium Fishes. Over less than three decades, the arbitrary & mostly undocumented complex hybridisation of these supremely specialised creatures has produced the most extreme degradation of Nature's nobility & adapted biodiversity. All for Man's sensationalism. There are major principles here for all those who breed wild species. Why does one hybridise? Surely, if species have been most carefully brought into the custody of domestic cultivation from the wild there is an inalienable responsibilityfor Homo sapiens to honour not to trivialise Nature? I have tried to add humour to discussions even on plants which I can say euphemistically are not my favourites. Sorry to be serious. I do not mean to be a party pooper but there is a major ethic here. Ron Iles +More | | GeoffAroid@aol.com@mobot.org on 06/20/2001 02:44:08 AM | | Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org | | Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org | | | To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L | cc: | | Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! | | | | In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes: | | << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >> | | I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to | divide | of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind | boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought...... | | Geoffrey Kibby | London | | | |

From: "George R Stilwell, Jr." grsjr at juno.com> on 2001.06.21 at 00:53:56(6775) Hear! Hear!, Ron. I'm glad someone finally said it. Sometimes man doesn't deserve much credit. I'll bet Lord P will agree. Hey, that even rhymes. Ray +More GRSJr@Juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

From: Piabinha at aol.com on 2001.06.21 at 03:25:03(6776) can we cross Am. titanum with Helicodiceus and get a giant dead horse arum?

From: Paul Tyerman ptyerman at ozemail.com.au> on 2001.06.21 at 16:00:56(6782) At 10:25 20/06/01 -0500, you wrote: >can we cross Am. titanum with Helicodiceus and get a giant dead horse arum? > How about Dracunculus titanum? Imagine something the size of the Am. titanum, but with the leaves on a scale of titanum, but shaped as for the Drac....... surmounted by the flower. If we're talking the same proportions........ it would be somewhat large . I wonder what stinky crossed with stinky would result in? Concrete melting as teh stench was so bad? I'll go away now....... Cheers. Paul Tyerman +More Canberra, Australia. USDA equivalent - Zone 8 mailto:ptyerman@ozemail.com.au Growing.... Galanthus, Erythroniums, Fritillarias, Lilium, Aroids, Irises plus just about anything else that doesn't move!!!!!

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 16:01:22(6784) Why not cross the thing with something and get a dead duck arum? Ron +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 4:25 AM Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! | can we cross Am. titanum with Helicodiceus and get a giant dead horse arum? |

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 16:02:10(6787) George! Being a political Thesbian I love the affirmative applause. Keep it up please. Go on, bite 'em some more! Ron +More ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:54 AM Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! | Hear! Hear!, Ron. I'm glad someone finally said it. | Sometimes man doesn't deserve much credit. | | I'll bet Lord P will agree. | | Hey, that even rhymes. | | Ray | GRSJr@Juno.com | | ________________________________________________________________ | GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! | Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! | Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: | http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. |

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.21 at 16:03:07(6791) Anthurium??? Spathiphyllum??? I am offended to see that Amorphophallus is being compared with the likes of Anthurium and Spathiphyllum. Good grief!!!! Shockbert +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: woensdag 20 juni 2001 21:49 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > > Yes, imagine a paeonifolius "super-sized": or on a taller stem like that of > gigas! Howbout novel colorpatterns from breeding with albispathus? > C'mon Wilbert! Its done with Anthurium and Spathiphyllum! > Bonaventure W. Magrys > Cliffwood Beach, NJ > > > > > GeoffAroid@aol.com@mobot.org on 06/20/2001 02:44:08 AM > > Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org > > Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org > > > To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > cc: > > Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > > > > In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes: > > << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >> > > I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to > divide > of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind > boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought...... > > Geoffrey Kibby > London > > > >

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.21 at 16:03:50(6794) Errrr, I guess my message to Ron (just posted), sort of may be a shock to some...... I'll be liberal about this (after all I AM from Holland): I think people may hybridise whatever they want. What we should avoid, is that such hybrids go unnoticed into cultivation. They should be properly identifibale by a cultivar name (there is an antire nomenclature code for cultivated plants dedicated to this issue). On the other hand, we may not want to name every individual plant that is a one-time result of a hybridisation..... This is actually a problematic issue, I must admit. In commercial perennial breeding, breeders sometimes adhere to to those "interesting" looking botanical names of their hybrids, suggesting it still IS that species, instead of discarding of the species name and adding a cultivar name. THAT is the wrong attitude and blurs the borderline between interest in wild plants and interest in "nice looking plants of whatever origin". Lord P. +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: donderdag 21 juni 2001 2:53 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > Hear! Hear!, Ron. I'm glad someone finally said it. > Sometimes man doesn't deserve much credit. > > I'll bet Lord P will agree. > > Hey, that even rhymes. > > Ray > GRSJr@Juno.com > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.21 at 16:04:21(6796) I think we already have the Yeti running around somewhere..... W. ----- Original Message ----- +More To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: donderdag 21 juni 2001 5:24 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > can we cross Am. titanum with Helicodiceus and get a giant dead horse arum? >

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 20:11:52(6807) I'll go away and try to sort the mess in the simple group I chose to keep. Then scans of the defined plants can be put up on the Web for Reference. Most cultivar "names" are illegitimate, except those direct from tissue culture. By the time they're in "Nurseries" & Florists, they have lots of aliases & if they cross the pond by the time they get there, forged passports. No wonder they won't let 'em out of Countries where they're in hiding. It seems that every Spath cultivar that ever been born has had its original name changed by its successions of owners. In comparison, the brave new wave of Amorphophallod miscagenators are only just beginning their cultural diversifying. It seems even at this stage that in practice you are surprisingly unsure of species? R

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.22 at 03:18:08(6818) Wilbert! You wrote: There is an entire nomenclature code for cultivated +More | plants dedicated to this issue. So, please can you post that reference as well please? Thanks Ron | > | |

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.06.22 at 03:18:40(6820) Ron, tell us about Spathiphyllum crosses. Successful, ie. productive results? BWM +More "Ron Iles" @mobot.org on 06/21/2001 12:01:28 PM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! Why not cross the thing with something and get a dead duck arum? Ron ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L" Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 4:25 AM Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! | can we cross Am. titanum with Helicodiceus and get a giant dead horse arum? |

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.22 at 16:04:58(6835) Well, even in Amorphophallus there are some species very close in morphology and even I wonder of they are rightly separated. Hybridising that stuff would cloud the issue even more. I think I better reduce them as soon as possible and then "hybridising" them is no fun anymore...... Wilbert +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: donderdag 21 juni 2001 22:11 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > > > I'll go away and try to sort the mess in the simple group I chose to keep. > Then scans of the defined plants can be put up on the Web for Reference. > Most cultivar "names" are illegitimate, except those direct from tissue > culture. By the time they're in "Nurseries" & Florists, they have lots of > aliases & if they cross the pond by the time they get there, forged > passports. No wonder they won't let 'em out of Countries where they're in > hiding. It seems that every Spath cultivar that ever been born has had its > original name changed by its successions of owners. In comparison, the brave > new wave of Amorphophallod miscagenators are only just beginning their > cultural diversifying. It seems even at this stage that in practice you are > surprisingly unsure of species? > > R > > > >

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.23 at 05:14:30(6841) The full ref. is: Trehane, P, C.D. Brickell, B.R. Baum, W.L.A. Hetterscheid, A.C. Leslie, J. McNeill, S.A. Spongberg & F. Vrugtman (eds.). International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants -1995. Regnum Vegetabile Vol. 33. Quarterjack Publishing, Wimborne, UK. More info on ordering in the USA: http://www.ishs.org/sci/icracpco.htm W. +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Sent: vrijdag 22 juni 2001 5:18 Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!! > > Wilbert! > > You wrote: > > > There is an entire nomenclature code for cultivated > | plants dedicated to this issue. > > So, please can you post that reference as well please? > > Thanks > > Ron > | > > | > | > >

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.23 at 05:15:16(6844) Hi, Wilbert (Lord P), Lord P I hope my passionate ironies in writing have not been taken as disrespectful +More or offensive to you. Being of goodwill to all aroiders, they were not intended so, and if you perceived them as such, I apologise. Secondly, please have you the reference for the Nomenclature Paper & from where do we get it. If it is "desirable" to hybridise key plants in the Collection later, I will follow strict "Stud Book" standards with definitive parentages, so it would be invaluable to know about existing methodogy. I will also try to get the pedigrees of all cultivars but this is likely to be difficult or impossible in many cases...but even illegitimates need homes. Thirdly, could you say from where do we get your Taxon Paper please? What a wonderful explosion of feelings with people striking more & more bright sparks off each other, positively! Sincerely Ron Iles in Fog ----- | | > | | | | | |

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