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  amorpho titanium pollen !!!)
From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.21 at 09:04:05(6795)
To Ron, from Amorph- and cultivated plant taxonomy -land

I think you're mixing two "realities". I do see that you recognise them,
being "nature" and its own laws of evolution of biodiversity and "man" (or
should that read "women".....?), with its own influence on biodiversity,
leading to a parallell diversity in domesticated entities (e.g. plant
cultivars, domesticated cats and dogs, cows, and what have you). I think we
should not condemn what we're doing ourselves to improve our society (think
of agricultural crops being vastly artificially improved to fill our needs)
because we obscure the beauty of wild things. We have a pre-set goal in
manipulating plants and animals and we do it and succeed, resulting in a
kind of "culto-diversity" with which we are mostly very pleased. Nature has
no intentional goal and thus "produces" another kind of diversity, which we
may like, or maybe even dislike. I don't think you should take "nature"
itself as the norm and adapt our domestication and breeding to THAT norm. WE
are the norm, whether some of us like or dislike that anthropocentrism. It's
reality, and that's what it is.

Should we revert to collecting our food ONLY from what nature has to offer
in its present form? I guess we'd have a REAL social problem coming up then.

Suggested reading (and self-promotion....): Hetterscheid, W.L.A. & W.A.
Brandenburg. 1995. Culton vs. Taxon: conceptual issues in cultivated plant
systematics. Taxon 44: 161-175.

Have phun.

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 13:12:08(6808)
Dear Lord P,

This further rare discussion on phallods having changed direction...the
fundamental principles arising seem most interesting. However, I & perhaps
others have too limited understanding of the status quo and that vulnerable
state needs remedy. I could easily have got out of my depth treading on
unsafely floating hybrid phallods. And I sense already that your view of
anthropocentrism from the afforested mountain parishes and glasshouse-ed
plains of the Nederlands is out of line with my religious environmental
fundamentalist views here. So, where do I get a print of your 1995 paper
with Dr. Brandenberg please? This matter seems of such huge importance,
that it is salutory that it should have arisen from a discussion on the
values & aesthetics of your pre-eminent genus. It could make great IAS
reading? May all your Amorphods remain pure even if they are inbred

My respects, Lord P


From: "Bob Bob" metopium at hotmail.com> on 2001.06.21 at 20:17:40(6816)
We're worried about the plant on our window or fish in out tanks being

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2001.06.22 at 09:09:01(6838)
Dear Lord Ronnie,

The paper was published in Taxon (see my reference), a rather distinguished
forum for taxonomy and its peculiar practitioners..... I know, I am one of
them.... If you cannot get this Taxon volume in a nearby academic library
(or are you in the USA....hee, hee), send me your private address privately
and who knows, I might even find a reprint. Mind you, it is NOT easy

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