From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.06.21 at 20:12:08(6808)
Dear Lord P,
This further rare discussion on phallods having changed direction...the
fundamental principles arising seem most interesting. However, I & perhaps
others have too limited understanding of the status quo and that vulnerable
state needs remedy. I could easily have got out of my depth treading on
unsafely floating hybrid phallods. And I sense already that your view of
anthropocentrism from the afforested mountain parishes and glasshouse-ed
plains of the Nederlands is out of line with my religious environmental
fundamentalist views here. So, where do I get a print of your 1995 paper
with Dr. Brandenberg please? This matter seems of such huge importance,
that it is salutory that it should have arisen from a discussion on the
values & aesthetics of your pre-eminent genus. It could make great IAS
reading? May all your Amorphods remain pure even if they are inbred
miscagenations.
My respects, Lord P
Ron
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L"
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: Why we breed what we breed (was: amorpho titanium pollen !!!)
| To Ron, from Amorph- and cultivated plant taxonomy -land
|
| I think you're mixing two "realities". I do see that you recognise them,
| being "nature" and its own laws of evolution of biodiversity and "man" (or
| should that read "women".....?), with its own influence on biodiversity,
| leading to a parallell diversity in domesticated entities (e.g. plant
| cultivars, domesticated cats and dogs, cows, and what have you). I think
we
| should not condemn what we're doing ourselves to improve our society
(think
| of agricultural crops being vastly artificially improved to fill our
needs)
| because we obscure the beauty of wild things. We have a pre-set goal in
| manipulating plants and animals and we do it and succeed, resulting in a
| kind of "culto-diversity" with which we are mostly very pleased. Nature
has
| no intentional goal and thus "produces" another kind of diversity, which
we
| may like, or maybe even dislike. I don't think you should take "nature"
| itself as the norm and adapt our domestication and breeding to THAT norm.
WE
| are the norm, whether some of us like or dislike that anthropocentrism.
It's
| reality, and that's what it is.
|
| Should we revert to collecting our food ONLY from what nature has to offer
| in its present form? I guess we'd have a REAL social problem coming up
then.
|
| Suggested reading (and self-promotion....): Hetterscheid, W.L.A. & W.A.
| Brandenburg. 1995. Culton vs. Taxon: conceptual issues in cultivated plant
| systematics. Taxon 44: 161-175.
|
| Have phun.
|
| Cultbert
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: Ron Iles
| To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L
| Sent: donderdag 21 juni 2001 1:22
| Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!!
|
|
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From:
| > To: "Multiple recipients of list AROID-L"
| > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 8:50 PM
| > Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!!
| >
| >
| > |
| > | Yes, imagine a paeonifolius "super-sized": or on a taller stem like
that
| > of
| > | gigas! Howbout novel colorpatterns from breeding with albispathus?
| > | C'mon Wilbert! Its done with Anthurium and Spathiphyllum!
| > | Bonaventure W. Magrys
| > | Cliffwood Beach, NJ
| >
| > Bonaventure!
| >
| > Your mention of Spathiphyllum has brought me into this. I have
Wilbert's
| &
| > friends' wonderful monograph on Amorphophallus, Even though to me they
| are
| > hellish in contrast to heavenly Peace Lilies please can I write my
| thoughts?
| >
| > Many generations of haphazard & usually undocumented hybridisation of
| > Spathiphyllum has produced chaos. Spectacular "artificial" cultivars
now
| > reign where only elegantly adapted natural species existed before.
| Species
| > evolved over the mists of time to suit their ecological niches, exactly.
| > Cultivars for Man's "ornament" unrelated to natural evolution &
sometimes
| > degrading of Natural fitness. Most could not survive true competition
in
| > the wild.
| >
| > Is it to be the same history with everything when Man's curiosity leads
| him
| > to try to "improve" upon Nature. If so, then a plea to keep wild
species
| > integrity in cultivation. Another plea objectively to document
heritages
| &
| > pedigrees of all "hybrids" most carefully before allocating meaningless
| > "names". There is hardly a group of "domesticated" animals or plants
| which
| > Man has not tried to improve upon to the detriment & often loss of the
| > "wild" species. But one example dear to me is Symphysodon, "Discus",
| > arguably the "King" of Aquarium Fishes. Over less than three decades,
the
| > arbitrary & mostly undocumented complex hybridisation of these supremely
| > specialised creatures has produced the most extreme degradation of
| Nature's
| > nobility & adapted biodiversity. All for Man's sensationalism.
| >
| > There are major principles here for all those who breed wild species.
Why
| > does one hybridise? Surely, if species have been most carefully
brought
| > into the custody of domestic cultivation from the wild there is an
| > inalienable responsibilityfor Homo sapiens to honour not to trivialise
| > Nature?
| >
| > I have tried to add humour to discussions even on plants which I can say
| > euphemistically are not my favourites. Sorry to be serious. I do not
| mean
| > to be a party pooper but there is a major ethic here.
| >
| > Ron Iles
| >
| > |
| > | GeoffAroid@aol.com@mobot.org on 06/20/2001 02:44:08 AM
| > |
| > | Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org
| > |
| > | Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org
| > |
| > |
| > | To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L
| > | cc:
| > |
| > | Subject: Re: amorpho titanium pollen !!!
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | In a message dated 19/6/01 11:10:48 pm, magrysbo@shu.edu writes:
| > |
| > | << Brian, You're making hybrids? Great. >>
| > |
| > | I have visions of an Amorph with the vigour, hardiness and ability to
| > | divide
| > | of konjac and the size and dramatic structure of titanum; the mind
| > | boggles......I think Wilbert has just fainted at the thought......
| > |
| > | Geoffrey Kibby
| > | London
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
|
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