In-ground Planting Mix

From: Dan Levin levin at pixar.com> on 2001.07.16 at 14:07:18(7041) I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area is essentially clay. +More My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. >From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, Cycads... the usual suspects! Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or avoid? I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm blending at the approximate ratio of - 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) - 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) - 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) - 10% horticultural sand My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? Thanks, -Dan

From: Aroideae at aol.com on 2001.07.16 at 19:40:54(7043) dear dan, i am in west central florida, so our climates are very different, but perhaps my experience with greenhouse beds will help some. i did not use the rock layer because our sand drains rapidly. i used peat instead of coir + composted pine bark + perlite + compost from a friend. i dug the beds out to 24 inches and added the mix. it has been about 6 yrs and the soil surface has sunk about 20 inches. of course our heat here and my keeping the greenhouse at 60 deg in the winter, plus heavy irrigation would cause a more rapid breakdown of the medium. i think it's time to dig out my beds and start again. +More lynn I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area is essentially clay. My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. >From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, Cycads... the usual suspects! Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or avoid? I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm blending at the approximate ratio of - 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) - 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) - 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) - 10% horticultural sand My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? Thanks, -Dan

From: plantnut plantnut at macconnect.com> on 2001.07.16 at 19:42:40(7045) Dump the coir.... It will decompose within a year!!!!! Dewey >I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground +More >planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in >the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] >worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area >is essentially clay. > >My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. >>From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., >Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, >Cycads... the usual suspects! > >Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning >conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or >avoid? >I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm >blending at the approximate ratio of >- 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) >- 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) >- 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) >- 10% horticultural sand > >My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn >into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the >entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. > >What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? >Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? > >Thanks, > -Dan Your source for Tropical Araceae http://members.macconnect.com/users/p/plantnut/

From: Aroideae at aol.com on 2001.07.16 at 20:14:41(7047) dear dan, an added note: DO add horticultural lime from time to time. your medium or mine will acidify when it breaks down and the fertilizer will add to the acidity. +More lynn

From: mburack at mindspring.com on 2001.07.17 at 02:16:53(7049) In case anyone didnt know... Dewey hates coir! :) aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > Dump the coir.... It will decompose within a year!!!!! +More Dewey >I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground >planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in >the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] >worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area >is essentially clay. > >My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. >>From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., >Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, >Cycads... the usual suspects! > >Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning >conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or >avoid? >I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm >blending at the approximate ratio of >- 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) >- 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) >- 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) >- 10% horticultural sand > >My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn >into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the >entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. > >What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? >Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? > >Thanks, > -Dan Your source for Tropical Araceae http://members.macconnect.com/users/p/plantnut/

From: Denis denis at skg.com> on 2001.07.17 at 02:17:43(7050) Dan: Why did you use all Coir instead of Peat Moss. Have you had better experiences with Coir? +More Denis at Silver Krome Gardens Homestead Florida Dan Levin wrote: > > I'm blending at the approximate ratio of > - 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) > - 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) > - 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) > - 10% horticultural sand > > My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn > into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the > entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. > > What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? > Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? > > Thanks, > -Dan

From: Durightmm at aol.com on 2001.07.17 at 02:49:43(7052) lynn, at what ph does one add lime? It has been my experience that most aroids prefere acid. The ph would be most helpful to all. Joe

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at email.msn.com> on 2001.07.17 at 13:22:56(7054) Not only Dewey---we had an extensive LONG discussion quite a while back on this L concerning the use of coir in ALL its forms, and the concensus of opinions was that it did not last, went 'bad' very quickly and caused lots of problems. Not many gave any reasons why it should be used anymore! Julius +More >>In case anyone didnt know... Dewey hates coir! :)<< aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > Dump the coir.... It will decompose within a year!!!!! Dewey >I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground >planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in >the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] >worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area >is essentially clay. > >My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. >>From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., >Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, >Cycads... the usual suspects! > >Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning >conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or >avoid? >I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm >blending at the approximate ratio of >- 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) >- 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) >- 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) >- 10% horticultural sand > >My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn >into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the >entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. > >What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? >Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? > >Thanks, > -Dan Your source for Tropical Araceae http://members.macconnect.com/users/p/plantnut/

From: Aroideae at aol.com on 2001.07.17 at 13:24:38(7056) joe--- i've never tested the ph in the beds. the acidification is a natural and expected process. i think that it's not so much a matter of aroids preferring acidic conditions as matter of their NOT preferring alkaline conditions. generally speaking. most of what we grow are epiphytes on trees in their native habitats......but then there's anthurium reflexinervium that grows on limestone rocks as do many of the alocasias! so, i simply try to keep it 'even'. most plants, not just aroids, generally prefer between 5.6 and 6.6 ph and at that level, will properly absorb at least some nutrients....... if my poor memory serves. the old, tried and true Selby epiphyte mix includes lime. lynn +More lynn, at what ph does one add lime? It has been my experience that most aroids prefere acid. The ph would be most helpful to all. Joe

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2001.07.17 at 16:28:18(7058) Dear all, I agree with Lynn. What is true for epiphytes may not be true for geophytes. I mean, in places like Central Brazil, the higher the pH of the soil, higher the diversity of Aroids. In fact, I am suspicious that the problem is not the pH itself, but the availability of calcium. Limestone outcrops or limestone-derived soils are much richer in aroids than surrounding areas. Many Amorphophallus species are endemic to limestone outcrops (am I correct, Wilbert), as well as some tuberous Xanthosoma, Taccarum, Spathicarpa, etc. In pure forms of the Brazilian cerrado vegetation, that is known as having the soil poor in calcium, no aroid is known to occur. However, limestone outcrops in surrounding areas that are usually in drier conditions may support a diverse aroid flora. Correct me if I am wrong, but even in rainforests growing in sandy soils are high in calcium that is held in the biomass and in the fast recycled humus. If you have ever worked with the anatomy of aroids, you will note that there are so many calcium oxalate cristal in almost every tissue that they must have come from somewhere!!! +More Very best wishes, Eduardo. >joe--- > >i've never tested the ph in the beds. the acidification is a natural and >expected process. i think that it's not so much a matter of aroids >preferring acidic conditions as matter of their NOT preferring alkaline >conditions. generally speaking. most of what we grow are epiphytes on >trees >in their native habitats......but then there's anthurium reflexinervium >that >grows on limestone rocks as do many of the alocasias! so, i simply try to >keep it 'even'. most plants, not just aroids, generally prefer between 5.6 >and 6.6 ph and at that level, will properly absorb at least some >nutrients....... if my poor memory serves. the old, tried and true Selby >epiphyte mix includes lime. > >lynn > > > lynn, at what ph does one add lime? It has been my experience that most > > aroids prefere acid. The ph would be most helpful to all. Joe > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

From: George Yao gcyao at netasia.net> on 2001.07.17 at 18:29:48(7059) Dan, If your clay does not drain, then you will effectively be forming a bowl of soup upon watering. You will only be able to grow swamp plants in it. It may be better to make a raised bed. George Yao +More Metro-Manila, Philippines At 10:07 PM 7/16/01, you wrote: >I've dug out a modest area inside my greenhouse for an in-ground >planting area. After placing a 4 - 5" [10-12 cm] layer of drain rock in >the bottom of this pit, I'll be topping up with another 18 - 20" [45-50 cm] >worth of planting mix; as the native soil here in the San Francisco area >is essentially clay. > >My intent is to grow a mixed collection of tropicals in this bed. > >From Araceae: Amorphophallus, Anchomanes, Anthurium, Alocasia, Dieff., >Philo's, etc. etc.; some Heliconia, various Zingiberaceae, Bromeliads, Palms, >Cycads... the usual suspects! > >Does anybody out there have any experience/ words of advice concerning >conservatory (in-ground) soil mixes or specific materials to either use or >avoid? >I'm considering a mix comprised of locally available components which I'm >blending at the approximate ratio of >- 40% coir (in lieu of peat moss) >- 30% red lava gravel (graded 1/4" size [6.5 mm], clean) >- 20 % fir bark (also graded 1/4", clean) >- 10% horticultural sand > >My sample of the above looks great- but I'm really concerned what it'll turn >into 5 years from now. Especially since my preference is to not dig out the >entire bed and replace the contents much before 2010, if at all possible. > >What do the under-glass botanical gardens do? >Anything special used for the beds inside MOBOT's Climatron for example? > >Thanks, > -Dan

From: "Dany Hervelle" bs246466 at skynet.be> on 2001.07.18 at 01:33:07(7061) Hello list Just about the discution of the coco fiber... Last year,i had post a message about this subject,and remember having not all +More negative avis,also is more was like that.I use it during more than a year now and never had a so good soil for the culture of alocasia,that are my favorit!All of my hundred of alocasia love really that.I use it with mix of volcano stone,50/50. of course,i grow all my plants in pots and mayby in plain grown it may be bad...But in MY experience,i really love it!I use the one that is conditioning in brick. Good growin' to all Dany

From: Dan Levin levin at pixar.com> on 2001.07.18 at 01:35:27(7062) Many thanks to all for the responses so far. Sounds like I'm at least heading in the right general direction, notwithstanding my consideration of the Evil Coconut by-product. +More Lynn- Agricultural lime and a mineral fertilizer will both be mix components, though I didn't mention this in my original post. Thanks for raising this aspect of soil chemistry- the ensuing discussion has been most enlightening. George- Yes drainage is a concern. I've dug 2 ea. sumps into the bottom of the pit, to be filled with rock along with the entire bottom 4". My clay does drain, albeit slowly- so I'm remaining optimistic. Perhaps I should be installing a proper concrete sump with a pump...? But as you mentioned, at that point it might be easier to just leave all my Alocasia, etc. in pots and plant a small taro patch instead. Denis to answer your question- The only soil/ rock yard in my immediate area is located in (the People's Republic of) Berkeley. Henceforth, peat is unofficially banned and coir is offered in its place as "... an environmentally friendly alternative to peat moss." Wouldn't be surprised if they're smoking coir too over on Telegraph Av. however, I have never used the stuff to date either recreationally (well- maybe I tried it just once, but didn't inhale) or as a mix component for any of my collection. The choice was strictly a matter of simplicity as the Berkeley place will mix & deliver anything from their bins for a nominal charge. But since my pit is still empty, I'm now on the hunt for 5 yd. of peat. Better for the plants, but worse for my aching back! -Dan Denis wrote: > Dan: > > Why did you use all Coir instead of Peat Moss. Have you had better > experiences with Coir?

From: StellrJ at aol.com on 2001.07.19 at 01:48:21(7070) In a message dated Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:28:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Eduardo Goncalves" writes: > Many Amorphophallus species are endemic to limestone > outcrops (am I correct, Wilbert), as well as some tuberous Xanthosoma, > Taccarum, Spathicarpa, etc. Wow, what a timely discussion. I am still working on that S. kotoensis bit, but I do remember that this sp. was far more abundant where the bedrock was fossil coral reef, as opposed to lava flow. Question: what is the submission deadline for articles hoping to appear in the 2001 Aroideana? Jason Hernandez +More Naturalist-at-Large (or a reasonable facsimile thereof)

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.07.19 at 02:21:12(7073) >From orchid growing experience, what nurtures and keeps moist in one pot may rot in another only several feet away... BWM +More "Dany Hervelle" @mobot.org on 07/17/2001 09:35:20 PM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: Re: In-ground Planting Mix Hello list Just about the discution of the coco fiber... Last year,i had post a message about this subject,and remember having not all negative avis,also is more was like that.I use it during more than a year now and never had a so good soil for the culture of alocasia,that are my favorit!All of my hundred of alocasia love really that.I use it with mix of volcano stone,50/50. of course,i grow all my plants in pots and mayby in plain grown it may be bad...But in MY experience,i really love it!I use the one that is conditioning in brick. Good growin' to all Dany

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