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  Question--Colocasia "Black magic"
From: "Dean Ouer" <d.ouer at cox.net> on 2004.03.13 at 22:32:19(11270)
Can any of you aroid experts answer the following question about the "Black Magic" colocasia?
I grow it in So California and also in Hawaii. The leafs look identical to me in both locations so I always assumed they are the same species. However, when grown in California it "suckers" only right next to the base of the mother plant. The suckers are so close it is even hard to split off the "pups." In Hawaii it sends out long runners (3-5 feet long) with a plantlet on the end like I have seen other Colocasias do. But the "Black Magic" I grow in California has never sent out a runner. And the one I grow in Hawaii only seldom suckers close by.
Are there two different species of "Black Magic" or is this difference in growth due only to climate?
Thanks for any feedback,
Dean

From: Harry Witmore <harrywitmore at witmore.net> on 2004.03.14 at 05:04:57(11271)
Dean, I believe these are 2 different species that happen to look allot
alike. I have heard the one that produces runners called Black Runner, but
I'm not sure if that's a correct name or not.

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From: "W. George Schmid" <hostahill at bellsouth.net> on 2004.03.14 at 05:22:05(11272)
Dean,
In Atlanta, Georgia: Pots standing in 2-3 inches of water produce long
runners (in the cool greenhouse after dormancy). The runners circle the
inside of the pot, eventually grow over the edge and into the water, where
they form rooted puppies. George
W. George Schmid
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From: <rnranimals at zoomtown.com> on 2004.03.14 at 13:52:26(11274)
Hello,
Ric here.
I've been lurking until a topic popped up I'm familiar w/.
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From: Tony Avent <tony at plantdelights.com> on 2004.04.05 at 15:27:10(11364)
Jason:

Regarding your Colocasia 'Black Magic' question, I can share a bit of
background. This clone clumps in most climates, but when grown as an
aquatic, it does produce runners. In very wet season, we have seen the
occasional runner. In tissue culture, C. 'Black Magic' mutated to a form
that runs in all climates. It was given the name C. 'Black Runner'. This
form also has leaves that emerge darker and have more ruffling around the
edges. I hope this helps.

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From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.04.06 at 02:59:54(11367)
Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Question--Colocasia "Black magic"
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 18:27:10 -0400
Dear Friends,

Great observation, Tony!! Tissue culture is known to produce rapid
mutation in Aroids, several of the commercially available 'new' Alocasias
have also been developed this way!
Though I have written on this topic many times, I am not sure that many of
us 'get it' concerning how relatively quickly some/most aroids evolve/mutate
vegetatively. In Colocasia and Xanthosoma, being perhaps the most
commonly and widely grown (as food), we can see the record on these most
easily. To come to the 'hard wall of realization' quickly, take a look
at Colocasia----It was introduced to Hawaii just a few thousand years ago by
canoes, probably just a very few cultivars, yet by the time anyone (modern
man) 'took notice', the Hawaiiana had developed over two hundren cultivars
(yes, over 200!!) just by selecting off-shoots of one that may have been
'different' or superior to the 'mother' plant, no sexual reproduction
involving pollination was involved!! Almost the same can be said for
Xanthosoma. I have also recorded a very suspicious rapid vegetative
evoloution' in the giant aroid Montrichardia on Trinidad which I am still
looking at!
To see this actually happening, buy a plant of the Xanthiosoma sp. (with the
little frills below the leaf blade) and just see how the off-shoots can
change from the 'original' mother-plant!

Good Growing,
Julius

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From: Tony Avent <tony at plantdelights.com> on 2004.04.06 at 09:13:22(11370)
Julius:

It is amazing when you grow enough plants to watch for mutations. Some
genera are very unstable and other seemingly never mutate. I expect that
many genera simply have faulty cell division processes...sort of like
buying a computer with a bad hard drive...sometimes it works...sometimes it
doesn't. A classic example is hosta, where there are a small number of
green species. We now have over 4,000 named cultivars. Only a tiny
fraction are seedlings and the rest are due to mutations. There are now
groups of plant nerds that go on sport-fishing expeditions to nurseries and
they aren't looking for fish.

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From: "Bryant, Susan L." <SLBryant at scj.com> on 2004.04.06 at 11:41:07(11374)
OK, now you are speaking Julius's language!
:)

sort of like

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From: hermine <hermine at endangeredspecies.com> on 2004.04.06 at 12:46:54(11375)
At 09:13 AM 04/06/2004, Tony Avent wrote:

Julius:

It is amazing when you grow enough plants to watch for mutations.
A classic example is hosta, where there are a small number of
green species. We now have over 4,000 named cultivars. Only a tiny
fraction are seedlings and the rest are due to mutations. There are now
groups of plant nerds that go on sport-fishing expeditions to nurseries and
they aren't looking for fish.

I am one of those sport fishermen. i bless the unstable, for theirs is the
kingdom of heaven.

hermine

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From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2004.04.06 at 16:45:55(11376)
Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu
To: "'aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu'"
Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Question--Colocasia "Black magic"
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From: MossyTrail at cs.com on 2004.04.07 at 00:08:01(11378)
Tony Avent wrote:

>Jason:
>
> Regarding your Colocasia 'Black Magic' question, I can share a bit of
>background. This clone clumps in most climates, but when grown as an
>aquatic, it does produce runners. In very wet season, we have seen the
>occasional runner. In tissue culture, C. 'Black Magic' mutated to a form
>that runs in all climates. It was given the name C. 'Black Runner'. This
>form also has leaves that emerge darker and have more ruffling around the
>edges. I hope this helps.
>
Yes, it does. As I recall, it is the variety C. e. aquatilis that runs. Your explanation suggests that these varieties may be, at least in part, ecotypes -- when grown it a wet stuation, it "becomes" aquatilis. Have there been any genetic/phylogeny studies on the three varieties of C. esculenta, to determine whether their differences are genotypic (suggesting true subspecies) or merely phenotypic (suggesting ecotypes)?

Jason Hernandez

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From: "Bryant, Harry E." <HEBryant at scj.com> on 2004.04.07 at 10:41:16(11379)
Dear Aroid-geeks,

It's probably a question of semantics but I wonder if much of this thread is
based on confusion between mutation, or, changed genotype, and varrying
phenotypic expression of the same genotype in response to the environmental
conditions that are present during tissue culture. My guess is that it is
phenotype rather than mutation. I suspect mutations will be caused by much
more rigerous conditions such as strong UV light, or agressive mutagenic
chemicals. My guess is the only way to find out for sure is to do DNA
analysis and see if the same genes are present but are expressed differently
quantitatively. And, I doubt anybody in this crowd has the resources to do
this kind of study.

A quick google pointed to the following link on genotype vs. phenotype. You
may find it of value.
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e10/10d.htm

Harry Bryant

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