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Please help me with Arum IDs
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From: "Pacific Rim" paige at hillkeep.ca> on 2005.08.23 at 21:31:59(13305)
Dear all: I have been struggling to give correct names to some Arums that
are new to me. Yes, "The Genus Arum" is on my Christmas list. But
meanwhile, if anyone would like to comment, on or offline, about the
identity of any of the Arums on my website at
http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20arum.htm, I would be grateful. I am open to
corrections on every ID, but the ones that particularly worry me at the
moment are:
-- "Arum aff. concinnatum." Should this be concinnatum?
-- all the A. dioscoridis group.
-- A. orientale. The photo is of the plant. But does it look like orientale?
If not, what do you think it is?
With thanks,
Paige Woodward
| +More |
paige@hillkeep.ca
www.hillkeep.ca
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2005.08.24 at 09:25:43(13308)
Hi Paige
cf concinnatum is concinnatum x cyrenaicum
dioscorides Spectabile Form is dioscorides var.
dioscorides
dioscorides var. cyprium is d. var.
syriacum
dioscorides var. cyprium Dark Form is d. var.
dioscorides
dioscorides var. philistaeum is aslo d. var.
dioscorides.
A. elongatum is A. nigrum
A. orientale and all other names are correct
Very best wishes
Pete
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:31 AM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
> Dear all: I have been struggling to give correct names to
some Arums that > are new to me. Yes, "The Genus Arum" is on my
Christmas list. But > meanwhile, if anyone would like to comment, on or
offline, about the > identity of any of the Arums on my website at
> http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20arum.htm,
I would be grateful. I am open to > corrections on every ID, but
the ones that particularly worry me at the > moment are:> >
-- "Arum aff. concinnatum." Should this be concinnatum?> --
all the A. dioscoridis group.> -- A. orientale. The photo is of the
plant. But does it look like orientale? > If not, what do you think it
is?> > With thanks,> > Paige Woodward> paige@hillkeep.ca> www.hillkeep.ca> >
_______________________________________________> Aroid-l mailing
list> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
_______________________________________________
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From: "Pacific Rim" paige at hillkeep.ca> on 2005.08.25 at 03:50:58(13315)
To be corrected by Peter Boyce is a privilege.
I received your answer this evening, Peter. Thank you for your help.
Group, what do you think? Many horticultural selections of A. dioscoridis
have lost
their taxonomical distinction and been wrapped into one variable species.
Fine. But given that so many of the arums in horticulture are clones, is it
not perhaps useful to repeat their former names, e.g. "This is the plant
formerly known as var. spectabile"? Or does that just defer understanding
that variation is the norm?
As for my elongatum glitch: Thank you for confirming it, Peter. It's
interesting how the mind keeps sifting. Already by this
morning, my sleeping brain had signalled, "Ah-ooga, ah-ooga!" Looking at my
web page, I realized that I had mixed up the images of nigrum and elongatum,
and
reposted the page.
Peter, do other growers plague you with requests for names?
If my orientale is orientale, some of the other orientales online must be
something else.
I spent months in Borneo in the early 1980s, but was focused elsewhere.
Failed to differentiate the orchids or the
Araceae. Thought of them all as plants.
Paige Woodward
| +More |
paige@hillkeep.ca
www.hillkeep.ca
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
Hi Paige
cf concinnatum is concinnatum x cyrenaicum
dioscorides Spectabile Form is dioscorides var. dioscorides
dioscorides var. cyprium is d. var. syriacum
dioscorides var. cyprium Dark Form is d. var. dioscorides
dioscorides var. philistaeum is aslo d. var. dioscorides.
A. elongatum is A. nigrum
A. orientale and all other names are correct
Very best wishes
Pete
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:31 AM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
Dear all: I have been struggling to give correct names to some Arums that
are new to me. Yes, "The Genus Arum" is on my Christmas list. But
meanwhile, if anyone would like to comment, on or offline, about the
identity of any of the Arums on my website at
http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20arum.htm, I would be grateful. I am open
to
corrections on every ID, but the ones that particularly worry me at the
moment are:
-- "Arum aff. concinnatum." Should this be concinnatum?
-- all the A. dioscoridis group.
-- A. orientale. The photo is of the plant. But does it look like
orientale?
If not, what do you think it is?
With thanks,
Paige Woodward
paige@hillkeep.ca
www.hillkeep.ca
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2005.08.25 at 07:10:11(13316)
Hi Paige
Glad that I was able to be of help.
To tackle your points one-by-on:
dioscorides: The main problem is that in cultivation what folks
are calling, e.g., cyprium, mostly do NOT match the original A.
cyprium (which has a yellow-green spathe with discrete very deep purple
spots and no spathe staining/flushing) and thus there is a double problem with
scientific names are being misused as cultivar tags AND are being misapplied!The
neatest answer with A. disocorides will be to recognize cultivars for
the more distinct & stable colour expressions.
elongatum: when I looked yesterday there were no images of
true elongatum on your web - the images under nigrum
were nigrum. The crucilal elongatum character is that the
spadix appendix reaches to the tip of the spathe.
orientale: Most on-line images are NOT orientale. Some are
besserianum, some are gratum, a few are maculatum,
one or two are cylindraceum (the new name for alpinum),
yet others are italicum...
I get about a dozen identification requests a week by email and about the
same a month by letter. I LOVE doing ids. Keep 'em coming!
Very best wishes
Pete
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Fw: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
> To be corrected by Peter Boyce is a privilege.>
> I received your answer this evening, Peter. Thank you for your
help.> > Group, what do you think? Many horticultural selections
of A. dioscoridis > have lost> their taxonomical distinction and
been wrapped into one variable species.> Fine. But given that so many of
the arums in horticulture are clones, is it> not perhaps useful to repeat
their former names, e.g. "This is the plant> formerly known as var.
spectabile"? Or does that just defer understanding > that variation is
the norm?> > As for my elongatum glitch: Thank you for confirming
it, Peter. It's > interesting how the mind keeps sifting. Already
by this> morning, my sleeping brain had signalled, "Ah-ooga, ah-ooga!"
Looking at my > web page, I realized that I had mixed up the images of
nigrum and elongatum, > and> reposted the page.> >
Peter, do other growers plague you with requests for names?> > If
my orientale is orientale, some of the other orientales online must be >
something else.> > I spent months in Borneo in the early 1980s,
but was focused elsewhere. > Failed to differentiate the orchids or
the> Araceae. Thought of them all as plants.> > Paige
Woodward> paige@hillkeep.ca> www.hillkeep.ca> > >
----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Boyce" >
To: "Discussion of aroids" >
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:25 AM> Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Please
help me with Arum IDs> > > Hi Paige> > cf
concinnatum is concinnatum x cyrenaicum> > dioscorides Spectabile
Form is dioscorides var. dioscorides> > dioscorides var.
cyprium is d. var. syriacum> > dioscorides var. cyprium Dark Form
is d. var. dioscorides> > dioscorides var. philistaeum is aslo d.
var. dioscorides.> > A. elongatum is A. nigrum>
> A. orientale and all other names are correct> > Very best
wishes> > Pete> > > ----- Original Message
----- > From: "Pacific Rim" > To: >
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:31 AM> Subject: [Aroid-l] Please help
me with Arum IDs> > >> Dear all: I have been struggling
to give correct names to some Arums that>> are new to me. Yes,
"The Genus Arum" is on my Christmas list. But>> meanwhile, if anyone
would like to comment, on or offline, about the>> identity of any of
the Arums on my website at>> http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20arum.htm,
I would be grateful. I am open>> to>> corrections on
every ID, but the ones that particularly worry me at the>> moment
are:>>>> -- "Arum aff. concinnatum." Should this be
concinnatum?>> -- all the A. dioscoridis group.>> --
A. orientale. The photo is of the plant. But does it look like>>
orientale?>> If not, what do you think it is?>>>>
With thanks,>>>> Paige Woodward>> paige@hillkeep.ca>> www.hillkeep.ca>>>>
_______________________________________________>> Aroid-l mailing
list>> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>>>
> >
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> >>
_______________________________________________>> Aroid-l mailing
list>> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>>>
> _______________________________________________> Aroid-l mailing
list> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
_______________________________________________
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From: "Bryant, Susan L." SLBryant at scj.com> on 2005.08.25 at 12:08:48(13318)
Make mention of a former name?
I think it is useful. Newcomers to the Aroid world may be looking for
var spectabile and not realize it has a new name.
Your mention of it can help educate and perhaps boost sales. Nothing
but positive as I see it.
Susan
| +More |
PS. Thanks for posting. I always like looking at your site. What do
you have the pots sitting on in the cold frame photo? Your link to China
USDA zones gives a 404 page not found, :(
Do US buyers also need a phyto? Thanks.
is it not perhaps useful to repeat their former names, e.g. "This is
the plant formerly known as var. spectabile"?
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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|
From: "Pacific Rim" paige at hillkeep.ca> on 2005.08.25 at 21:16:27(13322)
Hello again, Pete. If the plant in my "elonagatum" slot is not elongatum,
what is it, please? For that matter, are the top picture and bottom one in
that slot of the same taxon? I was very surprised when the beautiful purple
creature in the lower picture emerged from the ground. The spadix reaches
almost to the top of the spathe in the upper photograph.
I have some young plants from seeds collected wild at several sites in
Turkey, sent by a generous stranger who had seen my web page. I will happily
submit pictures to you for ID as these plants mature.
Having blithely put your book on my Christmas list, I discover that it is
very hard to come by. I will inquire about this in a separate email.
Paige
| +More |
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
Hi Paige
Glad that I was able to be of help.
To tackle your points one-by-on:
dioscorides: The main problem is that in cultivation what folks are calling,
e.g., cyprium, mostly do NOT match the original A. cyprium (which has a
yellow-green spathe with discrete very deep purple spots and no spathe
staining/flushing) and thus there is a double problem with scientific names
are being misused as cultivar tags AND are being misapplied!The neatest
answer with A. disocorides will be to recognize cultivars for the more
distinct & stable colour expressions.
elongatum: when I looked yesterday there were no images of true elongatum on
your web - the images under nigrum were nigrum. The crucilal elongatum
character is that the spadix appendix reaches to the tip of the spathe.
orientale: Most on-line images are NOT orientale. Some are besserianum,
some are gratum, a few are maculatum, one or two are cylindraceum (the new
name for alpinum), yet others are italicum...
I get about a dozen identification requests a week by email and about the
same a month by letter. I LOVE doing ids. Keep 'em coming!
Very best wishes
Pete
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Fw: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
To be corrected by Peter Boyce is a privilege.
I received your answer this evening, Peter. Thank you for your help.
Group, what do you think? Many horticultural selections of A. dioscoridis
have lost
their taxonomical distinction and been wrapped into one variable species.
Fine. But given that so many of the arums in horticulture are clones, is
it
not perhaps useful to repeat their former names, e.g. "This is the plant
formerly known as var. spectabile"? Or does that just defer understanding
that variation is the norm?
As for my elongatum glitch: Thank you for confirming it, Peter. It's
interesting how the mind keeps sifting. Already by this
morning, my sleeping brain had signalled, "Ah-ooga, ah-ooga!" Looking at
my
web page, I realized that I had mixed up the images of nigrum and
elongatum,
and
reposted the page.
Peter, do other growers plague you with requests for names?
If my orientale is orientale, some of the other orientales online must be
something else.
I spent months in Borneo in the early 1980s, but was focused elsewhere.
Failed to differentiate the orchids or the
Araceae. Thought of them all as plants.
Paige Woodward
paige@hillkeep.ca
www.hillkeep.ca
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
Hi Paige
cf concinnatum is concinnatum x cyrenaicum
dioscorides Spectabile Form is dioscorides var. dioscorides
dioscorides var. cyprium is d. var. syriacum
dioscorides var. cyprium Dark Form is d. var. dioscorides
dioscorides var. philistaeum is aslo d. var. dioscorides.
A. elongatum is A. nigrum
A. orientale and all other names are correct
Very best wishes
Pete
----- Original Message -----
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:31 AM
Subject: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
Dear all: I have been struggling to give correct names to some Arums that
are new to me. Yes, "The Genus Arum" is on my Christmas list. But
meanwhile, if anyone would like to comment, on or offline, about the
identity of any of the Arums on my website at
http://www.hillkeep.ca/bulbs%20arum.htm, I would be grateful. I am open
to
corrections on every ID, but the ones that particularly worry me at the
moment are:
-- "Arum aff. concinnatum." Should this be concinnatum?
-- all the A. dioscoridis group.
-- A. orientale. The photo is of the plant. But does it look like
orientale?
If not, what do you think it is?
With thanks,
Paige Woodward
paige@hillkeep.ca
www.hillkeep.ca
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
_______________________________________________
Aroid-l mailing list
Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l
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From: "Peter Boyce" peterboyce at myjaring.net> on 2005.08.27 at 05:39:56(13327)
Dear David
This seems to be Typhonium close to T. giganteum rather
than Arum but I would need to see the details of the lower spadix to be
sure. If you hace a sphotograph shoeing the interior workings I can be more
positive. There is currently only one Arum recorded for China - A.
jacquemontii from Tibet.
Very best wishes
Peter
| +More | |
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of aroids"
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 1:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Please help me with Arum IDs
> Dear Peter,> > Having just seen your note (and
in particular your "keep 'em coming!) to > Paige regarding her
identification, I wonder if you could help with the > attached.>
> I have recently returned from a trip to Yunnan and we found the
attached on > a meadow just south of Zhondian at about 3,000m. I
don't know if the photo > is good enough for identification but, if not,
let me know as I believe I > can get more from my Chinese friends.
Professor Sun Weibang, who was > leading the trip, could not identify the
plant and would welcome help, I am > sure.> > Many thanks
for your help in advance,> > > Best regards,> David
Victor
> _______________________________________________> Aroid-l
mailing list> Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com> http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l>
_______________________________________________
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