Gonatopus species-Yup!

From: Ken Mosher ken at spatulacity.com> on 2006.09.28 at 16:34:33(14685) Hi Julius, No, it's not Amorph symonianus. While my particular plant does not have a well-pronounced 'knee' others on the sales table did (mine has the knee but it's not a textbook example). The swollen joints I mentioned are not the intercalary bulbils of symonianus (which I'm familiar with). Aside from which Am. symonianus would have one large bulbil at the top of the petiole (plus additional bulbils at further divisions of the leaflet on larger plants). On this plant the place where the leaf first begins to divide into its three primary groupings of leaflets has three large rounded joints. +More I will get a photo this evening, assuming I can convince my camera to autofocus on what I'm pointing at! Then I'll post it here in a size that shouldn't annoy dial-up list members. -Ken Julius Boos wrote: Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:35 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-solved Dear Ken, Loiter I did, but will do more of it next year if God spares life! Now I have to re-think my ID which was just based on the report that it was an all-green Gonotopus. You say that it has these three large, rounded areas on the three joints near to where the three veins of the leaf meet. This sounds to me like the seller made a misidentification of a plant, perhaps THINKING it was the all-green form of G. bovinii, but IF your plant does NOT have the very obvious 'knee'' about 2/3 the way up the petiole, it sounds to me at this point, and without seeing an actual photograph, that you may have bought an Amorphophallus simoneanum. I did see some of these at the show. These three swollen areas that you describe are actually a form of bulbil, and all three will fall out of the dried leaf and grow as new plants. Good Luck, Julius Sorry Julius, if I'd seen you loitering about I'd have asked you! You really must do more loitering in the future. It certainly is a different looking plant even aside from the solid green color. At the place where the petiole divides into three, the three joints are very large and rounded. But if His P'ness (don't say that too fast) says they're both G. boivinii then it must be so... -Ken>> Julius Boos wrote: From : Ken Mosher Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:22 AM To : Aroid list Subject : [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species? Dear Ken, No one asked me! "Believe it or don`t", as the old "Mad Magazine' used to say, I have been told that this all-green, giant Gonotopus is the very same G. bovinii, the common 'giraffe leg' or whatever, the other one with the beautiful markings which grows to a substantially smaller plant, at least the experts including "Lord P" whom have grown it and studied the 'naughty bits' along the spadix say that they are a match! So there now! Julius At that IAS show/sale there were several plants of a solid green (no spots, stripes or bloches) Gonatopus with no certain species listed. Nobody there was able to identify the species. Does anyone else have any ideas? I can take a photo and post it later if required. Thanks, Ken<< _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Michael Pascall" mickpascall at hotmail.com> on 2006.09.28 at 21:42:26(14691) Amorphophallus salmoneus can be all green , it also has a lumpy tuber . Mine is just sprouting . Michael Pascall, +More _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2006.09.28 at 22:09:51(14693) Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:34 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-Yup! Dear Ken, OK, if it IS in fact a species of Gonotopus and is all-green, then, and ACCORDING TO THE EXPERTS who have examined the 'naughty bits', it is a but color form of the common giraffe knee, G. bovinii. I have never been real 'comfortable' w/ this determination, so maybe you can make observations/photos, collect specimens, and maybe send a sample of leaf tissue to be compared to that of the 'real' G. bovinii (so you must also send a leaf sample of the 'real' G. bovinni for comparison) to someone who has the capabilities to do this DNA testing (Eduardo is the only one who comes to mind at this moment) and see what comes back at you! Good Luck, Julius +More Hi Julius, No, it's not Amorph symonianus. While my particular plant does not have a well-pronounced 'knee' others on the sales table did (mine has the knee but it's not a textbook example). The swollen joints I mentioned are not the intercalary bulbils of symonianus (which I'm familiar with). Aside from which Am. symonianus would have one large bulbil at the top of the petiole (plus additional bulbils at further divisions of the leaflet on larger plants). On this plant the place where the leaf first begins to divide into its three primary groupings of leaflets has three large rounded joints. I will get a photo this evening, assuming I can convince my camera to autofocus on what I'm pointing at! Then I'll post it here in a size that shouldn't annoy dial-up list members. -Ken<< Julius Boos wrote: From : Ken Mosher Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:35 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-solved Dear Ken, Loiter I did, but will do more of it next year if God spares life! Now I have to re-think my ID which was just based on the report that it was an all-green Gonotopus. You say that it has these three large, rounded areas on the three joints near to where the three veins of the leaf meet. This sounds to me like the seller made a misidentification of a plant, perhaps THINKING it was the all-green form of G. bovinii, but IF your plant does NOT have the very obvious 'knee'' about 2/3 the way up the petiole, it sounds to me at this point, and without seeing an actual photograph, that you may have bought an Amorphophallus simoneanum. I did see some of these at the show. These three swollen areas that you describe are actually a form of bulbil, and all three will fall out of the dried leaf and grow as new plants. Good Luck, Julius Sorry Julius, if I'd seen you loitering about I'd have asked you! You really must do more loitering in the future. It certainly is a different looking plant even aside from the solid green color. At the place where the petiole divides into three, the three joints are very large and rounded. But if His P'ness (don't say that too fast) says they're both G. boivinii then it must be so... -Ken>> Julius Boos wrote: From : Ken Mosher Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:22 AM To : Aroid list Subject : [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species? Dear Ken, No one asked me! "Believe it or don`t", as the old "Mad Magazine' used to say, I have been told that this all-green, giant Gonotopus is the very same G. bovinii, the common 'giraffe leg' or whatever, the other one with the beautiful markings which grows to a substantially smaller plant, at least the experts including "Lord P" whom have grown it and studied the 'naughty bits' along the spadix say that they are a match! So there now! Julius At that IAS show/sale there were several plants of a solid green (no spots, stripes or bloches) Gonatopus with no certain species listed. Nobody there was able to identify the species. Does anyone else have any ideas? I can take a photo and post it later if required. Thanks, Ken<< _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: Brian Williams pugturd at alltel.net> on 2006.09.28 at 23:18:12(14696) I have seen what looks to be three forms of Gonatopus. One is the large green form it has the knee half way up the stem and is usually a much larger grower around 4 to 6 feet tall thicker stems with a large flower. It can reproduce from leaves. Then the most common form is the brown stripped stem form with the knee halfway up the stem. This one usually grows to 3 maybe 4 feet tall and is most common it has a thin looking flower with the same colorations on the spath. +More The last form I got from Craig Allen at Fairchild as bovinii. This form was the most delicate looking very very thin leaves no knee in the stem and a large tuber. The stems only reached about 1 foot tall and almost did not look like aroid. This one does look closer to the above no markings on the stems though usually just a dark brown color the flowers were very similar. I have photos of all besides the large green form. _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at xs4all.nl> on 2006.09.29 at 04:13:22(14703) Hi Brian, It seems like this third form isn't G. boivinii. Where can we look at pictures of that? The large all-green knee-bearing form of G. boivinii is quite common here in cultivation beside the dark grey, striped one. They are definitely the same species: G. boivinii. Cheerio, Wilbert +More > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com > [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] Namens Brian Williams > Verzonden: vrijdag 29 september 2006 1:18 > Aan: Discussion of aroids > Onderwerp: Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-Yup! > > I have seen what looks to be three forms of Gonatopus. One is > the large green form it has the knee half way up the stem and > is usually a much larger grower around 4 to 6 feet tall > thicker stems with a large flower. > It can reproduce from leaves. > Then the most common form is the brown stripped stem form > with the knee halfway up the stem. This one usually grows to > 3 maybe 4 feet tall and is most common it has a thin looking > flower with the same colorations on the spath. > The last form I got from Craig Allen at Fairchild as bovinii. > This form was the most delicate looking very very thin leaves > no knee in the stem and a large tuber. The stems only reached > about 1 foot tall and almost did not look like aroid. This > one does look closer to the above no markings on the stems > though usually just a dark brown color the flowers were very > similar. I have photos of all besides the large green form. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aroid-l mailing list > Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com > http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l > _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2006.09.29 at 16:52:32(14706) Dear aroiders, I have both forms (pure green and mottled) growing side by side as adult flowering plants. Despite they are strikling different because of the color, all extant features I could observe are similar. Anyhow, I will compare DNA of both plants and the other Gonatopus I have (G. angustus) for the DNA barcode project. I will let you know. Very best wishes, Eduardo. +More Dr. Eduardo G. Goncalves Universidade Catolica de Brasilia Curso de Ciencias Biologicas Sala M-206, QS 7, Lote 1, EPTC CEP 72030-170, Taguatinga ? DF, BRAZIL. Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-Yup! Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:09:51 +0000 Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:34 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-Yup! Dear Ken, OK, if it IS in fact a species of Gonotopus and is all-green, then, and ACCORDING TO THE EXPERTS who have examined the 'naughty bits', it is a but color form of the common giraffe knee, G. bovinii. I have never been real 'comfortable' w/ this determination, so maybe you can make observations/photos, collect specimens, and maybe send a sample of leaf tissue to be compared to that of the 'real' G. bovinii (so you must also send a leaf sample of the 'real' G. bovinni for comparison) to someone who has the capabilities to do this DNA testing (Eduardo is the only one who comes to mind at this moment) and see what comes back at you! Good Luck, Julius Hi Julius, No, it's not Amorph symonianus. While my particular plant does not have a well-pronounced 'knee' others on the sales table did (mine has the knee but it's not a textbook example). The swollen joints I mentioned are not the intercalary bulbils of symonianus (which I'm familiar with). Aside from which Am. symonianus would have one large bulbil at the top of the petiole (plus additional bulbils at further divisions of the leaflet on larger plants). On this plant the place where the leaf first begins to divide into its three primary groupings of leaflets has three large rounded joints. I will get a photo this evening, assuming I can convince my camera to autofocus on what I'm pointing at! Then I'll post it here in a size that shouldn't annoy dial-up list members. -Ken<< Julius Boos wrote: From : Ken Mosher Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:35 PM To : Discussion of aroids Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species-solved Dear Ken, Loiter I did, but will do more of it next year if God spares life! Now I have to re-think my ID which was just based on the report that it was an all-green Gonotopus. You say that it has these three large, rounded areas on the three joints near to where the three veins of the leaf meet. This sounds to me like the seller made a misidentification of a plant, perhaps THINKING it was the all-green form of G. bovinii, but IF your plant does NOT have the very obvious 'knee'' about 2/3 the way up the petiole, it sounds to me at this point, and without seeing an actual photograph, that you may have bought an Amorphophallus simoneanum. I did see some of these at the show. These three swollen areas that you describe are actually a form of bulbil, and all three will fall out of the dried leaf and grow as new plants. Good Luck, Julius Sorry Julius, if I'd seen you loitering about I'd have asked you! You really must do more loitering in the future. It certainly is a different looking plant even aside from the solid green color. At the place where the petiole divides into three, the three joints are very large and rounded. But if His P'ness (don't say that too fast) says they're both G. boivinii then it must be so... -Ken>> Julius Boos wrote: From : Ken Mosher Reply-To : Discussion of aroids Sent : Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:22 AM To : Aroid list Subject : [Aroid-l] Gonatopus species? Dear Ken, No one asked me! "Believe it or don`t", as the old "Mad Magazine' used to say, I have been told that this all-green, giant Gonotopus is the very same G. bovinii, the common 'giraffe leg' or whatever, the other one with the beautiful markings which grows to a substantially smaller plant, at least the experts including "Lord P" whom have grown it and studied the 'naughty bits' along the spadix say that they are a match! So there now! Julius At that IAS show/sale there were several plants of a solid green (no spots, stripes or bloches) Gonatopus with no certain species listed. Nobody there was able to identify the species. Does anyone else have any ideas? I can take a photo and post it later if required. Thanks, Ken<< _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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