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  'Santa Leopoldina'-last comment
From: "Julius Boos" <ju-bo at msn.com> on 2007.02.26 at 03:48:41(15359)
Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
Sent : Saturday, February 24, 2007 5:50 PM
To : Discussion of aroids
Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron 'Santa Leopoldina'

Well put, well said, Russ, ESPECIALLY paragraph two! I am in total
agreement, but wish the 'Santa Leopoldina' could just be diminished or even
dropped, as has little or no 'legitimacy' since the publication of P.

But I BET this does not put and end to the 'debate'!! :--)


From: "Eduardo Goncalves" <edggon at hotmail.com> on 2007.02.26 at 19:16:54(15367)
Dear guys,

I am sorry for the loooooong silence, even when my name appear in many
postings on this topic. I have been somewhat busy lately...
Santa Leopoldina is a city in Espirito Santo state (Southeastern Brazil)
where the material was supposed to be collected long time ago. For a weird
reason, it seens that plants from that area are proned to have long leaves.
(Remember P. stenolobum was also collected nearby). Since than, people have
mentioned an outstanding long leaf P. "Santa Leopoldina', but since you
have many species around with long leaves, the name started to be disputed.
Philodendron spiritus-sancti was collected originally in Domingos Martins
county (that is the just at the southwestern corner of Santa Leopoldina
county). George Bunting never mentioned the name Santa Leopoldina when
describing P. spiritus-sancti, but both names were associated further by
.......... . When I redescribed wild specimens of P. spiritus-sancti, I
reinforced that the only Philodendron "Santa Leopoldina" formally described
was this one. To me (as a taxonomist), only formally published names are
real names. It is true that other morpho-species (to be named P. superbum as
fast as we can obtain wild-collected material of this) has been also
associated with the toponym Santa Leopoldina, maybe before any other
material. However, Graf's books are great for the horticulturist, but they
are very far from being formal in a taxonomic point of view. Since taxonomy
is the only official scientific way to deal with the plant diversity, Graf's
opinion on nomenclature is completely useless. I won't resist to cite that
the Amazonian Philodendron billietae and P. atabapoense, and even the
southern P. curvilobum have been named P. "Santa Leopoldina" too. This is
the funny side of life...A new law simply appeared: since most philos from
Santa Leopoldina have long leaves so every plant with long leaf should be
from Santa Leopoldina!!! Pretty smart! (LOL)

My final word? Learn with your experiences and use one of the mottos:

1. Discussing popular names is funny, but worthless. If you want something
that comes closer to unanbiguous nomenclature, ask you friend taxonomist to
make a type specimen and describe your new plant formally.

2. If you think Horticultural names should be free from "official" taxonomy,
follow the horticultural rules and register your cultivar.

3. If you don't like official rules (horticultural or taxonomic), call your
plants as you want, but don't bother to discuss it.

4. If you are a plant collector and like to have names in your plants, keep
geographical information with them. All the pain could be avoided if plants
of the "old" P. Santa Leopoldina had a geographical label on it. Right now,
we are not 100% sure that the old P. Santa Leopoldina came in fact from
Santa Leopoldina. Philodendron spiritus-sancti is the closer choice!!!!

Be happy,


From: "Steve Lucas Exotic Rainforest" <steve at exoticrainforest.com> on 2007.02.26 at 21:10:26(15371)

I'm done with the subject since it appears unlikely we will
soon figure out what all the rest of the plants in this discussion may actually
be. But I thank you all for your input! I, for one, have received
quite an education from all of this!

Steve Lucas

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