Cultivar lists

From: "Derek Burch" <derek at horticulturist.com> on 2007.04.01 at 11:46:03(15541) Alistair, As always your letter gives clear instructions for a path ahead, and will stir me into action – although that action is most likely to be a cry for help or relief. This is like so many things, frightening until I can become immersed in the minutiae – and as you suggest, that immersion to do the job properly can wait a while if LISTING rather than REGISTERING is the initial goal. I had only about twenty names suggested in total from the last time that I asked for contributions from members – which meant that I would have to go out hunting for names myself. Not impossible, but even writing down things that I hear or see at shows needs a certain dedication, and, to be honest, gingers are my interest, not aroids! I must digest your two very good letters, and will try to move ahead on this in the few days before I go off to a two-month contract in UK. Do what I can in the time … Regards, Derek +More -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Alistair Hay Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:17 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Speak to me, Joe Derek I am not sure that the hurdle you present, while a significant issue to be addressed at some stage, prevents things being started because you could first of all go straight into starting the process with completely new cultivars. Moreover, it is valuable for the ICRA to publish cultivars that may have already been established (rather obscurely in nursery catalogues for example) where you are reasonably confident of their identity (which may actually be determined based on common current usage anyway). The place of establishment can be indicated as 'not known' with the effect that, if it turns out the cv name has not actuially been previously established, it is established at this time of publication, and hence can be registered anyway. If at a later date it is found to have been previously established, the records can be amended accordingly in the online register. The certain date and place of first establishment is chiefly important in instances of dispute over the use of one epithet for different cultivars in the same denomination class - to determine which has priority - and it might be pragmatic to only conduct the sort of research needed to establish confidently the date and place of first establishment when and as such instances of dispute arise. - That is until someone comes along with a passionate interest in trawling through old gardening dictionaries and nursery catalogues etc and accumulating this info for all the aroids! It is cheeky of me to say this as an appallingly lapsed IAS member, but I think this is an area of the Soc's work that it is far better to get started and make a few mistakes and omissions than to put off further for fear of not doing it perfectly! Further cheek: JMO but I do think it is important for IAS as the ICRA to offer the publication service either in Aroideana or in the IAS newsletter (if that is still produced in hard copy). In fact I believe it is set out in the Code as one of the responsibilites of the ICRA to see to it that cultivars submitted for registration are published. A From: "Derek Burch" Reply-To: Discussion of aroids To: "'Discussion of aroids'" Subject: [Aroid-l] Speak to me, Joe Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:20:48 -0400 Joe, For those of us like me with the retention span of a gnat, to which particular suggestion from Dr Hay do you refer? If it is the one to get a fire lit under the registration process by taking a very pragmatic approach to data collection, I am all for it. One of the hurdles that I don’t know how to cross on getting the registration started is that even the small lists of cultivars which have been produced by the society from time to time need each entry to be checked for place of publication (if such exists). Only those that have appeared in print, of course, can be considered for registration according to the International Code. If a form like that outlined by Dr. Hay comes into being, his entry “Name established” asking for a place of publication (if there is not the regular annual feature in Aroideana set up as he suggests) is of vital importance for when the ‘online register’ converts to a proper Registration Authority list. I feel that his suggestion is a great step forward in getting this under discussion and finally perhaps into action. Derek -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Wrig14@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:21 PM To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Subject: [Aroid-l] Mute! I recall awhile back when a poem posted here was screened as being unfit for the forum. Yet accepted is a personal opinion expressed in an undignified manner by a professional about an associate who submitted a solution to an obvious problem. It is the sole responsibility of the International Aroid Society to resolve this issue and Dr. Hays' suggestion was both valid and timely. Most disturbing for this writer is the silence by members concerning the suggestion. The silence is deafening. Joe AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >_______________________________________________ >Aroid-l mailing list >Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com >http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Alistair Hay" <ajmhay at hotmail.com> on 2007.04.04 at 11:07:05(15548) Derek let me know if I can help! A Alistair, As always your letter gives clear instructions for a path ahead, and will stir me into action ? although that action is most likely to be a cry for help or relief. This is like so many things, frightening until I can become immersed in the minutiae ? and as you suggest, that immersion to do the job properly can wait a while if LISTING rather than REGISTERING is the initial goal. I had only about twenty names suggested in total from the last time that I asked for contributions from members ? which meant that I would have to go out hunting for names myself. Not impossible, but even writing down things that I hear or see at shows needs a certain dedication, and, to be honest, gingers are my interest, not aroids! I must digest your two very good letters, and will try to move ahead on this in the few days before I go off to a two-month contract in UK. Do what I can in the time ? Regards, Derek +More -----Original Message-----From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Alistair HaySent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:17 PMTo: aroid-l@gizmoworks.comSubject: RE: [Aroid-l] Speak to me, Joe Derek I am not sure that the hurdle you present, while a significant issue to be addressed at some stage, prevents things being started because you could first of all go straight into starting the process with completely new cultivars. Moreover, it is valuable for the ICRA to publish cultivars that may have already been established (rather obscurely in nursery catalogues for example) where you are reasonably confident of their identity (which may actually be determined based on common current usage anyway). The place of establishment can be indicated as 'not known' with the effect that, if it turns out the cv name has not actuially been previously established, it is established at this time of publication, and hence can be registered anyway. If at a later date it is found to have been previously established, the records can be amended accordingly in the online register. The certain date and place of first establishment is chiefly important in instances of dispute over the use of one epithet for different cultivars in the same denomination class - to determine which has priority - and it might be pragmatic to only conduct the sort of research needed to establish confidently the date and place of first establishment when and as such instances of dispute arise. - That is until someone comes along with a passionate interest in trawling through old gardening dictionaries and nursery catalogues etc and accumulating this info for all the aroids! It is cheeky of me to say this as an appallingly lapsed IAS member, but I think this is an area of the Soc's work that it is far better to get started and make a few mistakes and omissions than to put off further for fear of not doing it perfectly! Further cheek: JMO but I do think it is important for IAS as the ICRA to offer the publication service either in Aroideana or in the IAS newsletter (if that is still produced in hard copy). In fact I believe it is set out in the Code as one of the responsibilites of the ICRA to see to it that cultivars submitted for registration are published. A Joe, For those of us like me with the retention span of a gnat, to which particular suggestion from Dr Hay do you refer? If it is the one to get a fire lit under the registration process by taking a very pragmatic approach to data collection, I am all for it. One of the hurdles that I don?t know how to cross on getting the registration started is that even the small lists of cultivars which have been produced by the society from time to time need each entry to be checked for place of publication (if such exists). Only those that have appeared in print, of course, can be considered for registration according to the International Code. If a form like that outlined by Dr. Hay comes into being, his entry ?Name established? asking for a place of publication (if there is not the regular annual feature in Aroideana set up as he suggests) is of vital importance for when the ?online register? converts to a proper Registration Authority list. I feel that his suggestion is a great step forward in getting this under discussion and finally perhaps into action. Derek -----Original Message-----From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Wrig14@aol.comSent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:21 PMTo: aroid-l@gizmoworks.comSubject: [Aroid-l] Mute! I recall awhile back when a poem posted here was screened as being unfit for the forum. Yet accepted is a personal opinion expressed in an undignified manner by a professional about an associate who submitted a solution to an obvious problem. It is the sole responsibility of the International Aroid Society to resolve this issue and Dr. Hays' suggestion was both valid and timely. Most disturbing for this writer is the silence by members concerning the suggestion. The silence is deafening. Joe AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. >_______________________________________________>Aroid-l mailing list>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l >_______________________________________________>Aroid-l mailing list>Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com>http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-l mailing list Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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