black warocqueanum

From: john s smolowe <johnssmolowe at pacbell.net> on 2007.06.26 at 06:38:01(15865) steve -i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied.http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemi believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)"second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almo st a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant.regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed."he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that?i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any ma +More il-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me.best,john s. smolowemenlo park, caSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas_______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ExoticRainforest" <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2007.06.26 at 07:33:22(15866) I think those of us who have tried to find out who the seller is changed our opinion as to this being "hype" once more facts came to light. The biggest problem appears to be the seller was new to eBay and eBay sellers are notorious for claiming something is "rare" or "new" or some other descriptive term when it can often be bought almost anywhere. The black "waroc" may go through the roof but that's the nature of eBay. If people want it the price will rise. As for the A. regale, it was pointed out to me the photo had a man standing behind the leaf that makes the leaf appear quite large. I had to stare at it awhile to see it for myself. And as most of you read, Betsy pointed out it is possible for A. regale to grow a 6 foot leaf. I just have not been able to find anything in my literature that states that but Betsy has been to Peru and seen the plant in the natural state. Now I'm waiting for mine to get that big! I think perhaps some of us have become too jaded when it comes to plants on eBay and can't always see the "plants" for the "trees". And I can't agree with you more regarding Enid's plants! She's the best. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: john s smolowe To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum steve - i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem i believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)" second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almost a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant. regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed." he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that? i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any mail-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me. best, john s. smolowe menlo park, ca Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Marek Argent" <abri1973 at wp.pl> on 2007.06.26 at 11:35:01(15869) The section Cardiolonchium within the Anthurium genus may have flowers from green to almost black. Especially when they are crossed with an another species. Marek +More ----- Original Message ----- From: john s smolowe To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:38 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum steve - i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem i believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)" second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almost a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant. regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed." he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that? i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any mail-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me. best, john s. smolowe menlo park, ca Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas__________ NOD32 Informacje 2353 (20070625) __________Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l__________ NOD32 Informacje 2353 (20070625) __________Wiadomosc zostala sprawdzona przez System Antywirusowy NOD32http://www.nod32.com lub http://www.nod32.pl _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: john s smolowe <johnssmolowe at pacbell.net> on 2007.06.27 at 06:26:02(15880) hi, steve. looks like, despite your professed skepticism, you out-bid me for david's ebay "black warocqueanum." pretty tricky there, fellah! ; ^ ) enjoy!best,johnOn Jun 25, 2007, at 1:48 PM, aroid-l-request@gizmoworks.com wrote:Well, my A. warocqueanum is close to black! Does that make it undescribed? I don't think so! I'd say this is hype and there's a ton of it on eBay! Steve Lucas_______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com +More http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Michael Mahan" <agavestar at covad.net> on 2007.06.28 at 14:58:43(15884) Steve ,Well you were right the added attention drove the price of the black Warocquenum up ,past my bid,,,, Seems that was sold by the HawaiianSunshine Nursey .. anyone know of them ? seems like I bought plants from them a few years ago directly , suspect we will see more offered , but I did win the Regal hybrid will post some photo’s when I get it .. & they will be better than the Ebay photo’s & I’ll compare it to my plant in the greenhouse right now pix attached … dsc06825 is a new leaf still growing dsc06826 old leaf about 1 ½ years old (I repotted in my new mix & Boom now it’s Cranking)…. thanx Steve , look forward to meeting up with you in Miami Mike Mahan [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:33 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum I think those of us who have tried to find out who the seller is changed our opinion as to this being "hype" once more facts came to light. The biggest problem appears to be the seller was new to eBay and eBay sellers are notorious for claiming something is "rare" or "new" or some other descriptive term when it can often be bought almost anywhere. The black "waroc" may go through the roof but that's the nature of eBay. If people want it the price will rise. As for the A. regale, it was pointed out to me the photo had a man standing behind the leaf that makes the leaf appear quite large. I had to stare at it awhile to see it for myself. And as most of you read, Betsy pointed out it is possible for A. regale to grow a 6 foot leaf. I just have not been able to find anything in my literature that states that but Betsy has been to Peru and seen the plant in the natural state. Now I'm waiting for mine to get that big! +More I think perhaps some of us have become too jaded when it comes to plants on eBay and can't always see the "plants" for the "trees". And I can't agree with you more regarding Enid's plants! She's the best. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum steve - i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem i believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)" second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almost a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant. regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed." he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that? i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any mail-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me. best, john s. smolowe menlo park, ca Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ExoticRainforest" <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2007.06.29 at 00:55:38(15892) Thanks Mike. You can blame me for the high bid, I placed it! I won the plant! I had no intention of bidding until Leland Miyano gave me some insight on the plant and the seller. Leland, Julius and I were burning the email lines trying to figure out exactly what it might be. Once I knew who was selling the plant most of my concerns evaporated. I too have purchased from Hawaiian Sunshine Nursery before and never had any problem with their plants. And I guess we'll see once this thing grows just how different it actually may become! David has assured me it is quite different. I'm anxious to meet many of you in Miami as well! See you all in September. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Mahan To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum Steve ,Well you were right the added attention drove the price of the black Warocquenum up ,past my bid,,,, Seems that was sold by the HawaiianSunshine Nursey .. anyone know of them ? seems like I bought plants from them a few years ago directly , suspect we will see more offered , but I did win the Regal hybrid will post some photo?s when I get it .. & they will be better than the Ebay photo?s & I?ll compare it to my plant in the greenhouse right now pix attached ? dsc06825 is a new leaf still growing dsc06826 old leaf about 1 ½ years old (I repotted in my new mix & Boom now it?s Cranking)?. thanx Steve , look forward to meeting up with you in Miami Mike Mahan From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforestSent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:33 AMTo: Discussion of aroidsSubject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum I think those of us who have tried to find out who the seller is changed our opinion as to this being "hype" once more facts came to light. The biggest problem appears to be the seller was new to eBay and eBay sellers are notorious for claiming something is "rare" or "new" or some other descriptive term when it can often be bought almost anywhere. The black "waroc" may go through the roof but that's the nature of eBay. If people want it the price will rise. As for the A. regale, it was pointed out to me the photo had a man standing behind the leaf that makes the leaf appear quite large. I had to stare at it awhile to see it for myself. And as most of you read, Betsy pointed out it is possible for A. regale to grow a 6 foot leaf. I just have not been able to find anything in my literature that states that but Betsy has been to Peru and seen the plant in the natural state. Now I'm waiting for mine to get that big! I think perhaps some of us have become too jaded when it comes to plants on eBay and can't always see the "plants" for the "trees". And I can't agree with you more regarding Enid's plants! She's the best. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: john s smolowe To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum steve - i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem i believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)" second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almost a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant. regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed." he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that? i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any mail-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me. best, john s. smolowe menlo park, ca Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Michael Mahan" <agavestar at covad.net> on 2007.06.29 at 04:53:29(15896) I won the other plant as you outbid me also ! he sent me his plant list & I’ll be getting a few things from him tomorrow … he is the person I did business with 2 years ago & I have a black variegated philo that I got then that is to die for with red stems .. all the plants were great as were his prices ,shipping & packing .. it’s great that I have contact agin with him as I had a hard drive melt down awhile ago & lost many contacts .. send some pix when you get it !! Damn I knew I should have bid high ! Mike [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:56 PM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum Thanks Mike. You can blame me for the high bid, I placed it! I won the plant! I had no intention of bidding until Leland Miyano gave me some insight on the plant and the seller. Leland, Julius and I were burning the email lines trying to figure out exactly what it might be. Once I knew who was selling the plant most of my concerns evaporated. I too have purchased from Hawaiian Sunshine Nursery before and never had any problem with their plants. And I guess we'll see once this thing grows just how different it actually may become! David has assured me it is quite different. I'm anxious to meet many of you in Miami as well! See you all in September. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- To: 'Discussion of aroids' Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum Steve ,Well you were right the added attention drove the price of the black Warocquenum up ,past my bid,,,, Seems that was sold by the HawaiianSunshine Nursey .. anyone know of them ? seems like I bought plants from them a few years ago directly , suspect we will see more offered , but I did win the Regal hybrid will post some photo’s when I get it .. & they will be better than the Ebay photo’s & I’ll compare it to my plant in the greenhouse right now pix attached … dsc06825 is a new leaf still growing dsc06826 old leaf about 1 ½ years old (I repotted in my new mix & Boom now it’s Cranking)…. thanx Steve , look forward to meeting up with you in Miami Mike Mahan From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of ExoticRainforest Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:33 AM To: Discussion of aroids Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum I think those of us who have tried to find out who the seller is changed our opinion as to this being "hype" once more facts came to light. The biggest problem appears to be the seller was new to eBay and eBay sellers are notorious for claiming something is "rare" or "new" or some other descriptive term when it can often be bought almost anywhere. The black "waroc" may go through the roof but that's the nature of eBay. If people want it the price will rise. As for the A. regale, it was pointed out to me the photo had a man standing behind the leaf that makes the leaf appear quite large. I had to stare at it awhile to see it for myself. And as most of you read, Betsy pointed out it is possible for A. regale to grow a 6 foot leaf. I just have not been able to find anything in my literature that states that but Betsy has been to Peru and seen the plant in the natural state. Now I'm waiting for mine to get that big! I think perhaps some of us have become too jaded when it comes to plants on eBay and can't always see the "plants" for the "trees". And I can't agree with you more regarding Enid's plants! She's the best. Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 1:38 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum steve - i can speak a bit to david fell's ebay listings to which you refer. i do not know david (vriesea2003). i do not know anything about him. but i bought one of his regale x "black warocqueanum" hybrids a few weeks ago. i certainly don't know for sure what exactly i have, but it is a huge plant for an ebay seedling and in perfect shape with a pot chock full of great roots. the photo on the web is of the one he sold me, and the newest leaf to the top left is over 18" long. i paid $46 for it and am quite satisfied. http://cgi.ebay.com/Anthurium-regale-seedling-possible-hybrid-6-pot_W0QQitemZ220124238597QQihZ012QQcategoryZ25463QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem i believe you have not read his listing carefully. first, he does not advertise it as anthurium regale, but rather as "anthurium regale seedling (possible hybrid)" second, he does not say that anthurium regale has leaves 6 ft long. he says, "Anthurium regale is a truly magnificent plant. It grows to 6 ft. or larger and has leaves almost a yard long." "leaves almost a yard long" seems well within your description - smaller than mardy's plant. regarding the "black warocqueanum," i think it's actually pretty straightforward of david to say, "While it is similar to A. warocqueanum there are many important differences, such as the leaf color which is much blacker than warocqueanum and it has silver veins as opposed to chartreuse veins of warocqueanum. The leaves are almost flat compared to the slight cupping of warocqueanum and the spadix is almost pure white. It also has a very small seed." he doesn't hype it as something it's not. he doesn't say "incredible" or "fantastic" or "last one you'll see for a long time." he just says it's similar to warocqueanum, with a few differences that he names. the reader is allowed to decide whether those differences are significant or just minor variations. how can you be more straightforward than that? i am not always satisfied with the plants i order from ebay or from any mail-order source for that matter. well, except for those from enid. her plants are always great. but i am quite satisfied with my plant from david fell. i hope this post doesn't boost the bidding for his "black warocqueanum" up too high, as i may bid for it myself, but he seems honest and fair to me. best, john s. smolowe menlo park, ca Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum ? not discribed yet? Is it hype? Honestly I can't say, perhaps Tom will comment but he and I have had conversations about color variations and they don't add up to "undescribed" species. However, the same seller is selling an Anthurium regale which he claims can grow 6 foot leaves! Now I thought mine was big with a 30 inch leaf and Doc Darian had grown a whopper with a 48 inch leaf! Either this seller has not read any scientific books or is using some darn good fertilizer! Perhaps just a bit of hype? Perhaps. Steve Lucas _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ExoticRainforest" <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2007.06.29 at 06:46:05(15900) There was no "professed skepticism". I was absolutely skeptical! As I explained in an earlier post, Julius Boos, Leland Miyano and I discussed this plant repeatedly for days. At first Julius agreed with me, we both thought this was nonsense. You likely read Julius' note on variations to Windy just yesterday. That is exactly what we thought this "black" waroc to be! Leland on the otherhand knew better. He was aware of several growers who actually had the plant. He set out carefully to convince both Julius and myself the offer was genuine. But since the three of us trade email almost daily (not through Aroid l), you were not privy to those conversations. Then you stepped in and verifed exactly what Leland had been telling me in email after email. Both you and he convinced me this could be a great chance to get a possible undescribed species, and I stated my mind had been changed on Aroid l before the auction ended. So I bid in the last few minutes. There was zero attempt at deception. I was convinced this was pure hype until Leland, who many of you will meet as the IAS guest speaker in September, convinced me otherwise and I corresponded with David Fell. Steve Lucas +More www.ExoticRainforest.com ----- Original Message ----- From: john s smolowe To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:26 AM Subject: [Aroid-l] black warocqueanum hi, steve. looks like, despite your professed skepticism, you out-bid me for david's ebay "black warocqueanum." pretty tricky there, fellah! ; ^ ) enjoy! best, john On Jun 25, 2007, at 1:48 PM, aroid-l-request@gizmoworks.com wrote: Well, my A. warocqueanum is close to black! Does that make it undescribed? I don't think so! I'd say this is hype and there's a ton of it on eBay! Steve Lucas _______________________________________________Aroid-L mailing listAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.comhttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "Michael Mahan" <agavestar at covad.net> on 2007.06.29 at 20:02:53(15905) Remind me to buy it 1st next time THEN ask …. About hype ! There was no "professed skepticism". I was absolutely skeptical! As I explained in an earlier post, Julius Boos, Leland Miyano and I discussed this plant repeatedly for days. At first Julius agreed with me, we both thought this was nonsense. You likely read Julius' note on variations to Windy just yesterday. That is exactly what we thought this "black" waroc to be! Leland on the otherhand knew better. He was aware of several growers who actually had the plant. He set out carefully to convince both Julius and myself the offer was genuine. But since the three of us trade email almost daily (not through Aroid l), you were not privy to those conversations. Then you stepped in and verifed exactly what Leland had been telling me in email after email. Both you and he convinced me this could be a great chance to get a possible undescribed species, and I stated my mind had been changed on Aroid l before the auction ended. So I bid in the last few minutes. There was zero attempt at deception. I was convinced this was pure hype until Leland, who many of you will meet as the IAS guest speaker in September, convinced me otherwise and I corresponded with David Fell. +More Steve Lucas www.ExoticRainforest.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

From: "ExoticRainforest" <Steve at ExoticRainforest.com> on 2007.06.29 at 21:01:33(15906) Michael, John and others: For any of you I may have inadvertently scared away from bidding on the "black waroc" I understand David Fell has more of them. I am not sure if he will sell them directly or strictly through eBay but you might wish to send him a note just in case. I know he has a price list which is available for other plants. Leland is certain this is an unusual Anthurium species. And I take him at his word due to his extensive background. +More And if I did scare any of you away with my original posting, please accept my apology. I had no intention of buying the plant and was truly skeptical as were several others who sent me private mail. Most of us thought it was nothing more than a variation. But then some interesting possibilities came to light which made us wonder if it was possibly something quite rare and sought after. It was never my intention to try to prevent anyone from bidding on the plant. Leland on the other hand is wiser than I am and did some good research before informing me what he had learned! Promise! I'll try to do the same before making any proclamations again. Is it an undescribed species? I really don't know. But give me a few years to grow it and ask me again! Here's David's email address: david@hawaiinursery.com _______________________________________________ Aroid-L mailing list Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l

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