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This is a continuously updated archive of the Aroid-L mailing list in a forum format - not an actual Forum. If you want to post, you will still need to register for the Aroid-L mailing list and send your postings by e-mail for moderation in the normal way.
Steve's pages ARE science
From: ted.held at us.henkel.com (ted.held at us.henkel.com) on 2008.04.21 at 17:02:28(17433)
That Steve`s pages, which offer correct information to collectors are
available on line is, I am certain, gratifying to science.
Let me weigh in on Steve and his wonderful notes. There is science of the
sort buried in little-read journal papers. And then there is the
promulgation of knowledge to a wider and interested audience.
To me Steve is an amazingly unselfish person. He adopts the completely
constructive approach of allowing unlimited comment and correction. This
is also science. It is true to the notion that scientific opinion is
conditional on new information coming in. What emerges is a living source,
populated by expert opinion and the best photographs anywhere.
We will probably never get all the ducks in a row for the naming of
commercial offerings. But a public source that is open to the best
available ID work is a blessing to us all. For those who care will always
Let me put in a cheer for the Exotic Rainforest.
From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.04.22 at 16:19:31(17439)
Thanks so much Ted. You are one of the people who helped me get "my ducks in a row". But I always urge anyone on this forum to point out anything that may be questionable on the site.
I received a great call yesterday from Neil Carroll regarding one of my pages and Neil helped me get some of the information corrected, or on the way to being corrected. I am not scientifically trained but I have a deep desire to understand my plants. Neil, thank you so much for your help! I consider the ExoticRainforest a project of the members of the IAS since so many of our members help me to write and edit the pages. My sincere thanks to you Ted for your note, but also for your help.
One other request if I may. I am seriously trying to find verified specimens of Anthurium hookeri, Anthurium jenmanii and Anthurium cubense. If any of you have specimens you will sell that match the scientific descriptions, please let me know. If you haven't read my pages on these three specimens, you might learn, as I did, none of the plants I had tagged with those names turned out to be those species. Dr. Croat has been of invaluable assistance in getting the information right on the pages (or at least I hope I have it right) but I still don't have actual specimens on any of these three. If you have extras, and they match the scientific material, please let me know!
From: lbmkjm at yahoo.com (brian lee) on 2008.04.22 at 17:50:37(17440)
Dear Julius, Ted, Steve, et. al.,
Science is a process. Naming plants is a process that
is on-going. Steve is an easily accessible source for
information on a selected group of plants that he
grows and has interest in. That it is available in
such a format at all, is a blessing. It is not easy
for many people to access this information. That
Steve and his contributors are willing to volunteer
their time and knowledge is refreshing.
Graff and his publications, Exotica and Tropica,
remind me of Steve and his website. Graff was
obviously passionate to assemble an encyclopedia of
plants for horticulture with the best information and
photos he could for the time. If he knew what we know
today, there would not be such a confusion of names.
Julius is correct in pointing out that some people
will refuse to learn and continue to believe that the
world is flat. Heaven help them. Steve, in his
website is continuing in the spirit of Graff, with
better information. In the future, we will obtain
even better information, and so goes the science of
From: chadmayer at yahoo.com (Chad Mayer) on 2008.04.22 at 17:58:09(17442)
I also wanted to chime in here. As a newbie, Steves pages are an incredibly valuable resource. Since he has no obligation to mask his findings and understanding in the obscure and dense language of what is currently accepted as 'scientific literature', he presents an unparalleled resource for the novice, as well as promulgating recent findings and advances in a format that is accessible. This allows the uninitiated to think more clearly about the subject, and stimulates new thoughts and ideas. This in turn promotes further inquiry, and serves the purposes of both scientist and hobbyist.
The fact that he is willing to pursue and perform the translation required is remarkable, and admirable. He takes a fact based approach and investigates the latest info available (which may run counter to the 'conventional wisdom' in the trade), and that sets his pages apart and above many other hobbyist pages.
In my opinion, scientists would do themselves and the world a great favor by promoting their findings in a format that allows the layperson to understand what knowlege has been gained. To do otherwise runs the risk of continuing the trajectory of anti-science that is currently rising in our society. I think Steves pages are a great model for communicating what would otherwise be obscure and somewhat sterile knowlege and transforming that knowlege into something enjoyable and useful.
From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.04.24 at 11:40:20(17446)
Thanks Chad, Ted, Leland, Julius and all the rest who often help. When I first began this website almost 3 years ago I knew basically what all of us could find in non-scientific literature. But then I had the great opportunity to meet Tom Croat. After that meeting and a personal tour of the largest collection of section Pachyneurium Anthurium sp. on the face of the planet I began to order Dr. Croat's journals so I could try to educate myself about the wonderful world of aroids. About that time Julius began to send some notes to try to help me straighten out the kinks, and believe me, there were lots of kinks! And almost immediately at the same time Joep Moonen, Leland and too many people to name including Russ Hammer who edits just about every page began to send me their observations. Man, did I love that!
Rather than my trying to write the pages with little background in what I was trying to write I had an incredible resource of information become available. Dr. Croat was also incredibly kind to answer my crazy questions, sometimes late into the night as did Dr. Eduardo Gon?alves, Pete Boyce, Alistair Hay, Simon Mayo, Ron Kaufmann, Windy Aubrey and many, many others. I had the opportunity to learn "botany" from the best in the field, both scientists and growers just like us. And that is when the ExoticRainforest began to turn into what it is now becoming.
So, as much as I appreciate the notes here, I appreciate even more the help in making the information readable, understandable and as close as possible accurate with today's known science. I change something on one or more pages almost every day since I'm constantly learning something new. What an inexpensive but valuable education for me! Once again, thanks to all of you who help all the time. The ExoticRainforst isn't just my pages, I like to think of them as our pages. They are just my notes so I can go back again and again to refresh my memory! So thanks again to all of you who provide information and especially photographs!
Please keep the information coming and I promise I will update any page that needs to be "fixed" at any time. But one request! If any of you have the three Anthurium species I named earlier and you are willing to sell (and they match the scientific description), please send me a note!!!
From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?hermine=A9?=) on 2008.04.24 at 17:19:08(17449)
>One other request if I may. I am seriously trying to find verified
>specimens of Anthurium hookeri, Anthurium jenmanii and Anthurium
>cubense. If any of you have specimens you will sell that match the
>scientific descriptions, please let me know.
I find it remarkable (in a GOOD WAY) that some 40 years after i
first saw these pictured in Exotica in the main branch of the
Brooklyn Public Library, and wanted them something awful, there is
still interest in verified specimens. In fact, many of the plants you
mention in here often are the ones upon which I fixated even earlier
in my plant collecting days, which were then confined to makeshift
growth chambers in Brooklyn apartments....
some things seem never to change.
in a GOOD WAY
From: hermine at endangeredspecies.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?hermine=A9?=) on 2008.04.24 at 20:44:47(17450)
>Science is a process. Naming plants is a process that
>is on-going. Steve is an easily accessible source for
>information on a selected group of plants that he
>grows and has interest in. That it is available in
>such a format at all, is a blessing.
Mr Graff was very trusting, and when he came to photograph our
bamboo, we explained that we doubted our names were AT THAT TIME
YEARS AGO, correct, but they were the best names we had. he said, oh,
that's OK, and I had already figgured out that he was most interested
in getting the IMAGE out there, and less so in the horrible world of
taxonomy, and if he waited for correct names, his books would have
been about a tenth the size and not NEARLY as interesting, so for
this reason, i give him a special dispensation on NAMES. I do not do
this very often! not even to myself!
From: Thomas.Croat at mobot.org (Tom Croat) on 2008.04.29 at 03:51:47(17490)
Thank you for your kind remarks. I think that you are doing a great job and a service to all of us. Keep up the good work.
From: Steve at ExoticRainforest.com (ExoticRainforest) on 2008.04.30 at 01:32:52(17496)
Tom, with your help and encouragement, you can bet I'll keep trying!
Thanks as always!
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