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  collecting titnaum seeds in the wild - forbidden?
From: "StroWi at t-online.de" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.03 at 06:03:46(23138)
Aroiders,
esp. titanophiles,

due to recent offers at ebay

( http://www.ebay.de/itm/Amorphophallus-titanum-35-seeds-Fresh-SOME-ALREADY-SPROUTED-MAKE-YOUR-OFFER-/321569296285?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adf060f9d )

there is a discussion in our German amorphophallus forum wether it is allowed to collect titanum seeds in the wild or not.

I know that titanum is not listet in CITES but the local law might as well forbid collecting seeds.

Would anyone know something about the situation?

Happy growing,
Bernhard.

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From: "Ertelt, Jonathan B" <jonathan.ertelt at Vanderbilt.Edu> on 2014.11.03 at 10:13:00(23140)
Since there are a fair number of A. titanum growing and flowering at
botanical centers now, I'm not sure that the assumption can be made that
these are wild collected. Does it say within the description that this is
so?

Jonathan

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From: "Traud Winkelmann und Bernhard Strolka" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.03 at 11:35:53(23144)
Jonathan,

no it is not stated that the seeds were wild collected, just:

"Amorphophallus titanum 50 seeds, just taken and cleaned from the pulp. Germination usually almost 100%
shipping with express/dhl/ems 5-10 days to worldwide
Packing : will dip it in sterile vermiculate, and pack it in hard small plastic box
No phyto/any paperwork included, buy at your owk risk !
USUALLY SHIPMENTS TO EUROPE and USA 100% PASS CUSTOMS"

The item loction is Medan the capital of the North Sumatra province in Indonesia.
It's very unlikely that the seeds are from a cultivated specimen.

let alone the origin of these seed I would be interested to learn if wild collections are allowed in Sumatra or not......

Rgds, Bernhard.

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From: Cyndi Krall <cyndikrall at aol.com> on 2014.11.03 at 11:59:03(23145)

Just=20out=20of=20curiosity-I=20have=20no=20plans=20to=20buy=20any,=20so=20please=20don't=20send=20me=20hatemail-does=20200,00=20mean=20they=20are=20selling=20the=20seeds=20for=20$200.00=20US=20dollars=20each?=20Comma=20instead=20of=20a=20period=20there,=20so=20I'm=20not=20sure=20what=20that=20translates=20to.=0A=0A=0ACyndi=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original=20Message-----=0AFrom:=20Ertelt,=20Jonathan=20B=20<jonathan.ertelt@Vanderbilt.Edu>=0ATo:=20Discussion=20of=20aroids=20<aroid-l@www.gizmoworks.com>=0ASent:=20Mon,=20Nov=203,=202014=2011:03=20am=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[Aroid-l]=20collecting=20titnaum=20seeds=20in=20the=20wild=20-=20forbidden?=0A=0A=0ASince=20there=20are=20a=20fair=20number=20of=20A.=20titanum=20growing=20and=20flowering=20at=0Abotanical=20centers=20now,=20I'm=20not=20sure=20that=20the=20assumption=20can=20be=20made=20that=0Athese=20are=20wild=20collected.=20Does=20it=20say=20within=20the=20description=20that=20this=20is=0Aso?=20=0A=0AJonathan=0A=0A=0AOn=2011/3/14=208:03=20AM,=20"StroWi@t-online.de"=20<StroWi@t-online.de>=20wrote:=0A=0A>=20Aroiders,=0A>=20esp.=20titanophiles,=0A>=20=0A>=20due=20to=20recent=20offers=20at=20ebay=0A>=20=0A>=20(=20=0A>=20http://www.ebay.de/itm/Amorphophallus-titanum-35-seeds-Fresh-SOME-ALREADY-SPRO=0A>=20UTED-MAKE-YOUR-OFFER-/321569296285?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=3Ditem4adf060f9d=20)=0A>=20=0A>=20there=20is=20a=20discussion=20in=20our=20German=20amorphophallus=20forum=20wether=20it=20is=20allowed=0A>=20to=20collect=20titanum=20seeds=20in=20the=20wild=20or=20not.=0A>=20=0A>=20I=20know=20that=20titanum=20is=20not=20listet=20in=20CITES=20but=20the=20local=20law=20might=20as=20well=0A>=20forbid=20collecting=20seeds.=0A>=20=0A>=20Would=20anyone=20know=20something=20about=20the=20situation?=0A>=20=0A>=20Happy=20growing,=0A>=20Bernhard.=0A>=20=0A>=20=0A>=20=0A>=20_______________________________________________=0A>=20Aroid-L=20mailing=20list=0A>=20Aroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com=0A>=20http://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l=0A=0A_______________________________________________=0AAroid-L=20mailing=20list=0AAroid-L@www.gizmoworks.com=0Ahttp://www.gizmoworks.com/mailman/listinfo/aroid-l=0A=0A=20=0A
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From: "StroWi at t-online.de" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.05 at 10:48:54(23147)

Hi Cyndi,

it was 200 (two hundered) US$ for 35 seeds...

In Germany 200,00 means 200.00 in US while 1.000.000 is a million .....

Breg, Bernhard.

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From: Don Martinson <llmen at wi.rr.com> on 2014.11.05 at 09:58:58(23148)
I see that the listing has now been removed. But to answer your question, many countries (esp European), use a comma instead of a period, so that $200,00 usually means $200.00.

Don Martinson

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2014.11.05 at 12:40:41(23149)
The species is very rare in the wild and to find it in fruit in Madagascar would be even more incredible and surely not worth the expense considering that people are getting seed production in cultivation.

Tom Croat, Missouri Botanical Garden

From: aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@www.gizmoworks.com] On Behalf Of Cyndi Krall

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From: "StroWi at t-online.de" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.09 at 01:27:53(23152)

Don,

it has been reslisted - there are still 3 lots listed now - the seller has obviously a whole seed head...

see offers of

http://www.ebay.de/sch/nepenthaceae/m.html?item=321578062606&hash=item4adf8bd30e&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Happy bidding, Bernhard.

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From: "StroWi at t-online.de" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.09 at 01:36:56(23153)

Tom,

as far as it is discussed in our forum, it seems that sellers get /buy whole seeds heads from people in rural areas and resell them via the amorphophallus face book group or via ebay.

I learned meanwhile that botanists collecting plants/seeds need a permit for genera etc. in Sumatra.

It would be interesting to know, if permits are necessary for A. titanum seeds as well and if local people may harvest seeds on their own land. There are clips in the www where you can see fruiting A. titanum in banana plantations for instance.

Happy growing, Bernhard.

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2014.11.10 at 18:21:47(23159)
Dear Bernard:

Oh, what the local people do and can get by with would differ a lot from what we would be required to do if we were to try this. If you are just gathering some seeds it probably would not be worth the effort to go through the whole ordeal.

Tom

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From: "StroWi at t-online.de" <StroWi at t-online.de> on 2014.11.11 at 01:58:06(23160)

Dear Tom,

a forum member who bought 30 of those titanum seeds just got the information:

"origin north sumatra, collected from private land, gum tree plantation"

So, collecting seeds from private land might be no problem - at least as long as the spec. is not protected by CITES regulations; but when plants grown on private property and thus declared as cultivated plants even this might not forbid havesting and selling of seeds.

Happy growing, Bernhard.

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From: BO MAGRYS <bonaventure at optonline.net> on 2014.11.12 at 13:55:58(23163)
What I worry about in "captive" titanum populations; are we breeding and
selecting for earlier flowering, and thereby perhaps smaller,
individuals of the species?

In general for any cultivated plant also is the problem of in-breeding
depression. I think it may be the cause of some of my losses of
self-seeding annuals over the years which started from one individual.

Bonaventure Magrys in NJ

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From: Tom Croat <Thomas.Croat at mobot.org> on 2014.11.15 at 12:13:49(23167)
Bernard:

It is good to know that at least in Indonesia the land owners can benefit from wild plants growing on their property. It is as is should be but I know that in many countries of South America such practices are illegal. So unable to make money selling native plant they just cut the whole damned forest down and raise grass for cows! I have repeatedly told them that they would conserve far more forest if they allowed the growing and cultivation of a native plants within the forest then the governments could help by providing a means for them to market such products, just like they do for roses, small palms and othersuch things. Those businesses are huge and have a lot of political clout whereas the small landowner is powerless to establish markets without some kind of a cooperative, an NGO or a government group designed to market and export. Most of these countries have few products that the rest of the world wants but their wild life is unique, highly sought after and valuable. Moreover in most cases it is capable of being endlessly reproduced. That goes for fish, birds, snakes and nearly everything. Doing this type of farming would preserve large tracts of land and prevent the extinction that is taking place now owing to limited value of virgin forest to the land owners. They have to cut it down or it is useless to them under present regulations.

Tom

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