pardon, actually the pics in the paper look
intermediate between the pic i showed and pics of some
of beautiful forms with very long narrow lobes....
--- a san juan wrote:
> Very nicely put!
>
> As you say, some cultivated samples may tend to be
> those that are "extreme" samples from the wild, and
> thus are not truly representative of the "average"
> look of the species (that is, the wild population
> may
> form a continuum of plant forms).
>
> The pic of one of the leaves of that small plant
> called "P. williamsii" shows short lobes but with
> edges that are ruffled (and some of newer leaves
> just
> coming out are starting to get even more 'wavy'):
>
>
http://www.blueboard.com/pahatan/gambar/images/2005_7_1_asj_p_stenolobum_1.jpg
>
> I looked at pics of P. stenolobum from that paper
> and
> they look similar in lobe shape to the short form -
> so
> maybe it's the "long lobe" form that needs a new
> name
> - LOL....
>
> But, honestly, i do like the ones with longer,
> thinner
> lobes though ;-)
>
> --- Julius Boos wrote:
>
> >
> > >From : a san juan
> > Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> >
> > Sent : Friday, July 1, 2005 9:21 PM
> > To : Discussion of aroids
>
> > Subject : Re: [Aroid-l] Philodendron stenolobum
> >
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> > Eduardo has informed us of exactly what the case
> is
> > w/ these two very
> > different and 'good' species (see his letter of
> > 30th, 8.18 pm, addressed to
> > 'Tom" (Dr. Croat), but allow me one more
> explanation
> > on what might have and
> > may still be causing some confusion.
> >
> > [By the way, the leaf ratios asked for on these
> two
> > species are---"Anterior
> > division (ratio length/width)
> > P. williamsii--1 - 1.5.
> > P. stenolobum 2.1 - 3.3.
> > (these are copied from Dr. Gonclaves' paper)
> > Other critical differences that separate these two
> > species documented by Dr.
> > Goncalves in his paper are--The gynoceum (immature
> > fruit) in P. stenolobum
> > is flask-shaped, while that of P. williamsii is
> > barrel shaped. The ovary
> > of P. stenolobum has 11-12 locules (chambers)
> while
> > that of P. williamsii
> > has only 7-8.]
> >
> > Before Dr. Goncalves published his paper, when
> > word got out that the plant
> > that we all had been refering to as P. williamsii
> > was going to be described
> > as a new/good species, several collectors/growers
> > then assumed that only the
> > plants with the ruffled leaf edges were this new
> > species ( P. stenolobum),
> > and the plants with the not-so-long anterior lobes
> > and flat leaf blades must
> > still be P. williamsii--- we were wrong! The
> TRUE
> > P. williamsii is a
> > completely different species, seemingly not in
> > cultivation, rare in
> > herbarium collections, and very different looking
> to
> > either one of the vars.
> > of the now-new P. stenolobum, and grows FAR away
> > from all the different
> > populations of the new P. stenolobum. (see
> > Eduardo`s recent letter on
> > this).
> > So--the plants that have a very long leaf, both
> the
> > ruffled and the
> > unruffled, ALL are TRUE P. stenolobum. Man
> ALWAYS
> > gravitates to collecting
> > from wild populations what he views as the most
> > attractive or even odd
> > members of a broard variety of either plants or
> > animals, it happens all the
> > time with collectors, but true scientists collect
> > 'down the middle', a
> > representitive sample that illustrates the
> extremes
> > of a species. This
> > obviously pertains to the plants under discussion,
> > all seen are P.
> > stenolobum.
> >
> > Julius
> > WPB, Florida
> >
> > >>Could you give numbers for the ratios? I'm
> > curious,
> > and glad this conversation came up.<<
> >
> >
> > --- Russ wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >The leaves on my 'stenolobum' are nowhere near as
> > >ruffled as the one in last year's Aroid show, or
> > the
> > >2 pictures I found
> > >of P. 'williamsii' in my Exotica. But they seem
> to
> > >be the same in narrow lobe width and proportions.
> > So, these are obviously
> > >both stenolobum with a
> > >variation in the leaf edge. BUT, these are not
> the
> > >two opposing plants I have in mind as
> questionable.
> > The 'old williamsii'
> > >that I'm referencing has much
> > >shorter, and wider lobes, and leaves are not as
> > >thick or stiff. They truly do not look like the
> > >same species. Russ>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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