GA3 in seed germination

From: Iza & Carol Goroff goroff at idcnet.com> on 2001.05.24 at 22:25:06(6553) A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent supplements), where he investigated various approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time patterns. My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. Iza Goroff +More Whitewater Wisconsin Perhaps someone Marc Burack wrote: > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line what I am looking for.... > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is expensive or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses.

From: "Nyles" metopium at hotmail.com> on 2001.05.25 at 03:30:14(6562) Hi, I always make a potassium salt of GA. It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled water into any glass container under a good light. Add the amount of GA that you want. You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. (A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. Use very small amounts at a time. At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. Hope that this helps! Nyles +More >From: Iza & Carol Goroff >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent >supplements), where he investigated various >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time patterns. > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > >Iza Goroff >Whitewater Wisconsin > >Perhaps someone > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line what >I am looking for.... > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is expensive >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: mburack at mindspring.com on 2001.05.25 at 15:02:49(6566) Dear Nyles, Many thanks for the info....but as far as pH goes... what number should I be looking for? "7" or is there an acceptable deviation higher or lower? Marc +More Thanks for the info aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > Hi, I always make a potassium salt of GA. It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled water into any glass container under a good light. Add the amount of GA that you want. You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. (A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. Use very small amounts at a time. At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. Hope that this helps! Nyles >From: Iza & Carol Goroff >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent >supplements), where he investigated various >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time patterns. > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > >Iza Goroff >Whitewater Wisconsin > >Perhaps someone > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line what >I am looking for.... > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is expensive >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: Ted.Held at hstna.com on 2001.05.26 at 06:06:44(6569) GA is supposed to be freely soluble in ethanol (Merck Index). So you could dissolve your appropriate amount in alcohol (try gin or vodka) and add that to your water. That will save you messing around with potassium hydroxide and pH. +More 1000 ppm = 1 gram per liter. That is 3.875 grams per gallon. 250 ppm is one quarter of that. ted.held@hstna.com aroid-l@mobot.org on 05/25/2001 11:02:45 AM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination Dear Nyles, Many thanks for the info....but as far as pH goes... what number should I be looking for? "7" or is there an acceptable deviation higher or lower? Marc Thanks for the info aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > Hi, I always make a potassium salt of GA. It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled water into any glass container under a good light. Add the amount of GA that you want. You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. (A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. Use very small amounts at a time. At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. Hope that this helps! Nyles >From: Iza & Carol Goroff >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent >supplements), where he investigated various >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time patterns. > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > >Iza Goroff >Whitewater Wisconsin > >Perhaps someone > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line what >I am looking for.... > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is expensive >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.05.26 at 06:07:11(6571) Can you dissolve in a little bit of alcohol and then dilute with water?

From: "Nyles" metopium at hotmail.com> on 2001.05.26 at 15:10:34(6578) My only hesitation with dissolving GA in ethanol and then mixing in water would be the GA precipitating out of solution. Since your using so little you may not see it, in which case you might as well just use water. Needless to say, if you use alcohol of any kind, use very little. Any chemists out there? Regarding Ph, you're always safe around 7 give or take. We have very basic water here in Tucson and all my plants do well... ..except that one protea. Nyles +More >From: mburack@mindspring.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:02:47 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear Nyles, > >Many thanks for the info....but as far as pH goes... what number should I >be looking for? "7" or is there an acceptable deviation higher or lower? > >Marc > > >Thanks for the info > > > >aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > > >Hi, > >I always make a potassium salt of GA. >It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. >GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole >procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled >water into any glass container under a good light. > >Add the amount of GA that you want. > >You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. >(A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal >with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) > >Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. >Use very small amounts at a time. > >At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. > >The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. >If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. > >Hope that this helps! > >Nyles > > >From: Iza & Carol Goroff > >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org > >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > >Subject: GA3 in seed germination > >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > > > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should > >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. > >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent > >supplements), where he investigated various > >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not > >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and > >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the > >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed > >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time >patterns. > > > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While > >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > > > >Iza Goroff > >Whitewater Wisconsin > > > >Perhaps someone > > > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line >what > >I am looking for.... > > > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I > >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is >expensive > >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per > >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: Ted.Held at hstna.com on 2001.05.29 at 13:23:31(6596) The GA will precipitate out if you put in more than is soluble. The idea is to target your one gram per liter, dissolve that in alcohol, and dilute with water to make a liter. If GA is soluble at 1 gram per liter, it will not precipitate at this level, alcohol or no alcohol. Merck reports GA as "slightly soluble". This is not specific. But if literature suggests using it at 1 gram per liter, it probably means that GA is soluble to this extent. Using the alcohol route just speeds the dissolution process and avoids the possible problem of some of your GA ending up on the container sides, insoluble and not noticed, wasted. Potassium hydroxide (or sodium hydroxide, or any number of other bases) will help things along. The problem with these is achieving a nice, neutral pH. Hardly impossible, but a pain for the basement or backyard gardener. I am a chemist, though not a specialist in GA. But what I write is pretty elementary chemistry. +More ted.held@hstna.com aroid-l@mobot.org on 05/26/2001 11:10:35 AM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination My only hesitation with dissolving GA in ethanol and then mixing in water would be the GA precipitating out of solution. Since your using so little you may not see it, in which case you might as well just use water. Needless to say, if you use alcohol of any kind, use very little. Any chemists out there? Regarding Ph, you're always safe around 7 give or take. We have very basic water here in Tucson and all my plants do well... .except that one protea. Nyles >From: mburack@mindspring.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:02:47 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear Nyles, > >Many thanks for the info....but as far as pH goes... what number should I >be looking for? "7" or is there an acceptable deviation higher or lower? > >Marc > > >Thanks for the info > > > >aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > > >Hi, > >I always make a potassium salt of GA. >It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. >GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole >procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled >water into any glass container under a good light. > >Add the amount of GA that you want. > >You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. >(A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal >with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) > >Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. >Use very small amounts at a time. > >At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. > >The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. >If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. > >Hope that this helps! > >Nyles > > >From: Iza & Carol Goroff > >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org > >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > >Subject: GA3 in seed germination > >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > > > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should > >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. > >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent > >supplements), where he investigated various > >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not > >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and > >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the > >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed > >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time >patterns. > > > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While > >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > > > >Iza Goroff > >Whitewater Wisconsin > > > >Perhaps someone > > > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line >what > >I am looking for.... > > > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I > >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is >expensive > >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per > >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: "Nyles" metopium at hotmail.com> on 2001.05.29 at 20:57:54(6598) Not to beat a dead horse. In my personal experience, I've never gotten GA to disolve in any amount of water, certainly not at 1gm/liter. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I haven't been able to do it. Nyles +More _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: magrysbo at shu.edu on 2001.05.30 at 02:00:28(6603) Biochemist/Molecular Biologist. "Nyles" @mobot.org on 05/26/2001 11:10:51 AM Please respond to aroid-l@mobot.org Sent by: aroid-l@mobot.org +More To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L cc: Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination My only hesitation with dissolving GA in ethanol and then mixing in water would be the GA precipitating out of solution. Since your using so little you may not see it, in which case you might as well just use water. Needless to say, if you use alcohol of any kind, use very little. Any chemists out there? Regarding Ph, you're always safe around 7 give or take. We have very basic water here in Tucson and all my plants do well... .except that one protea. Nyles >From: mburack@mindspring.com >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L >Subject: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:02:47 -0500 (CDT) > >Dear Nyles, > >Many thanks for the info....but as far as pH goes... what number should I >be looking for? "7" or is there an acceptable deviation higher or lower? > >Marc > > >Thanks for the info > > > >aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > > >Hi, > >I always make a potassium salt of GA. >It's been shown to be more active than other salts, or even pure GA. >GA is not freely soluble in water, so the easiest way to do this whole >procedure in your living room is to measure out the amount of distilled >water into any glass container under a good light. > >Add the amount of GA that you want. > >You'll see the powder floating on top of the water. >(A good conversion from parts per million (ppm)to something you can deal >with is to change it to milligrams per liter...not exact but VERY close) > >Slowly add potassium hydroxide (KOH) to the mixture while stirring gently. >Use very small amounts at a time. > >At some point the powder will suddenly disappear and go into solution. > >The Ph should be OK if you haven't overused the potassium hydroxide. >If your worried, use litmus paper or a pool Ph test kit. > >Hope that this helps! > >Nyles > > >From: Iza & Carol Goroff > >Reply-To: aroid-l@mobot.org > >To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L > >Subject: GA3 in seed germination > >Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:25:04 -0500 (CDT) > > > >A typical dose for seeds is from 250 to 1000 parts/million. 1 gram should > >last much, much longer. The use of GA3 was thoroughly investigated by Dr. > >Norman Deno in his Seed Germination and Practice (and in two subsequent > >supplements), where he investigated various > >approaches for germinating over 5,000 species of plants. GA3 does not > >easily dissolve in water. I cannot find my copy of Seed Germination and > >Practice to give the the procedure for its dilution, although in the > >supplements he has no problem germinating the aroids listed > >without the use of GA3, instead using different temperature/time >patterns. > > > >My suggestion is to NOT put all of your eggs (seeds) in one basket. While > >GA3 works wonders with some species, others are killed. > > > >Iza Goroff > >Whitewater Wisconsin > > > >Perhaps someone > > > >Marc Burack wrote: > > > > > Based on the info you sent, I think that GA is really more in line >what > >I am looking for.... > > > > > > I purchased some yesterday although it seemed more expensive than I > >thought... I paid $25 for 1 gram. I really dont know if that is >expensive > >or not, but obviously since I am going to use small amounts per > >application, 1 gram should be good for anywhere from 5-8 uses. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

From: "Ron Iles" roniles at eircom.net> on 2001.05.30 at 13:33:39(6610) Some of the cultivars of Spathiphyllum we get in Ireland from Holland are flowering as though there was no tomorrow, and there can be as many as twenty inflorescences on one small clump plant (like Chopin) maybe due to GA or something even more potent, the spathes even look tortured, and some of the leaves are white streaked! I recommend giving plants just what they need and oppose all green witchcraft which causes floral madness. And maybe the potions could turn biological predators into vegatarians. It's not nat'ral. Nope! +More Yours very concernedly >From the Mid Atlantic News Ed, sorry Torres Straits Editor.

From: Ron McHatton rmchatton at photocircuits.com> on 2001.05.30 at 14:35:47(6613) Not to continue beating the dead horse, but I can't stand this anymore. GA is slightly soluble in water and should dissolve on its own to levels which will be effective. The problem is the rate at which it dissolves, and the fact that the powdered free acid is hydrophobic which makes wetting of the salt difficult. The free acid is soluble in methanol, ethanol, acetone and aqueous solutions of sodium bicarbonate. If you go the route of dissolving first in alcohol, you should dissolve the GA in a very small amount of the alcohol (if you use drinkable stuff, you need the proof as high as possible or its just trying to dissolve GA in more water), then dilute to final working strength. At concentrations in the ppm range, the GA will not reprecipitate when water is added. That trick is used with alot of sparingly to slightly water soluble organics. You can't get them to dissolve, but once you do dilute solutions are pretty stable. GA is also soluble in water solutions of sodium bicarbonate. I believe this or sodium acetate is the medium that formed the basis of the water miscible material someone else wrote about. Anyway, sodium bicarbonate is easier to get than potassium hydroxide and no where near as corrosive. The pH of a 7 gram per liter solution of sodium bicarbonate is about 8.4. You can double that concentration and not move the pH very much. Its a little high, but not so high that any plants would be damaged and you don't get into the vicious cycle of pH up and down trying to control KOH. Solubility as well as the rate at which the material dissolves is dependent on temperature and the bicarbonate solution. You shouldn't have a problem with a final bicarb concentration around 7 g/l. I would prepare a small amount of sodium bicarbonate solution that is on the order of ten times that concentration, warm it slightly and dissolve the GA in that concentrated solution. Dilute the concentrate by a factor of 10 and apply. Ron McHatton +More -----Original Message----- From: mburack@mindspring.com [SMTP:mburack@mindspring.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 9:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list AROID-L Subject: Re: Re: Re: GA3 in seed germination Let me beat the horse one more time, If it cant be done, what do I do.....? Put a little in water, add some vodka or KOA and mix it up? Doesnt the introduction of these other chemicals alter the effects of the GA itself? I hate to keep asking these questions, but I have the stuff, and I just want to give it a go. I would be willing to mix it with anything if it will work. As a matter of fact, you guys are talking about mixing 1 gm / liter, and I was under the impression (based on something that I read) that the easiest way to go was to dip a toothpick about an 1/8 of an inch into the powder, dissolve (assuming that it could be done) into a cup of water and soaking the seeds in it for 24 hours.... Does this sound right? I figure if I am going to do it, I would like to do it right. Also Niles, there has been the talk about the pH, if I were to go the "KOA" route, how would I "right" the pH? Or is alcohol the easier way? Somebody just has to tell me what to do :) aroid-l@mobot.org wrote: > Not to beat a dead horse. In my personal experience, I've never gotten GA to disolve in any amount of water, certainly not at 1gm/liter. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I haven't been able to do it. Nyles _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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