Selloum/Bipinnatifidum

From: Leslie Georgeson skinnychick2 at yahoo.com> on 2003.05.08 at 13:15:22(10213) Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? +More The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.05.08 at 17:10:42(10217) Dear Leslie, Well, there is a serious problem on it. Taxonomically, P. selloum and P. bipinnatifidum are the same thing. (Check it out in Aroideana 25) However, there are at least two species being sold as P. selloum: P. mello-barretoanum and P. lundii, and also a few different forms of P. bipinnatifidum itself. All seeds look the same and I have germinated real P. bipinnatifidum many times with no stratification. I don?t believe that people there in colder areas have developed forms that requires stratification, but who knows? Well, you can have two forms of P. bipinnatifidum, or one of them can be P. mello-barretoanum or P. lundii... Or maybe none of them are the real P. bipinnatifidum... My advice is: Plant both batches of seeds as indicated, wait until they grow and observe a few features on stems and petioles, so it is up to you to ID: Stems with soft and easily detachable "scales" and petiole concave above..... P.bipinnatifidum +More (there are forms with green, reddish or almost coppery or maroon spathe) Stems with hard and not easily detachable "scales" and petiole concave above ... P. mello-barretoanum Stems without persistent "scales" and petiole flattened adaxially ................. P. lundii Very best wishes, Eduardo. Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/junkmail

From: Susan snalice at dslextreme.com> on 2003.05.08 at 18:34:15(10220) Leslie, When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered P. selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was going to get totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but from what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are synonomous. I think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, Sao Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for someone else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that is very similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be interested in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. Hope this helps, Susan Cox +More 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > >

From: Leslie Georgeson skinnychick2 at yahoo.com> on 2003.05.08 at 22:38:02(10222) Thanks for the info. The seeds labeled "selloum" have already come up. I will check them per your instructions. The others I just planted, because I followed the instructions (which said cold stratification), so they are just now in the planter. Thanks again for your help. Leslie Eduardo Goncalves wrote:Dear Leslie, Well, there is a serious problem on it. Taxonomically, P. selloum and +More P. bipinnatifidum are the same thing. (Check it out in Aroideana 25) However, there are at least two species being sold as P. selloum: P. mello-barretoanum and P. lundii, and also a few different forms of P. bipinnatifidum itself. All seeds look the same and I have germinated real P. bipinnatifidum many times with no stratification. I don?t believe that people there in colder areas have developed forms that requires stratification, but who knows? Well, you can have two forms of P. bipinnatifidum, or one of them can be P. mello-barretoanum or P. lundii... Or maybe none of them are the real P. bipinnatifidum... My advice is: Plant both batches of seeds as indicated, wait until they grow and observe a few features on stems and petioles, so it is up to you to ID: Stems with soft and easily detachable "scales" and petiole concave above..... P.bipinnatifidum (there are forms with green, reddish or almost coppery or maroon spathe) Stems with hard and not easily detachable "scales" and petiole concave above ... P. mello-barretoanum Stems without persistent "scales" and petiole flattened adaxially ................. P. lundii Very best wishes, Eduardo. >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron >Selloum and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each >type of seed, they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs >stratification before planting. When I researched these plants, they >appear to be identical. So, what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/junkmail --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.05.09 at 02:18:30(10225) Dear Susan, I have been trying to recognize species in the P. bipinnatifidum complex for at least 6 years and I have learned that the leaves are useless. There are so many forms, even when you are dealing with wild forms that you couldn?t say they are the same thing. People used this natural variation to make cultivars that are more or less uniform in any leafy aspect. But most material I have seen in the USA are based on the good?n?old Philodendron bipinnatifidum. Philodendron mello-barretoanum is ocasionally seen, mainly because it was spread by Roberto Burle-Marx. Philodendron lundii is pretty rare outside Brazil, despite it is the main cultivated species in Central Brazil (mainly Brasilia). +More Very best wishes, Eduardo. Reply-To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 11:34:15 -0700 Leslie, When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered P. selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was going to get totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but from what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are synonomous. I think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, Sao Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for someone else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that is very similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be interested in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. Hope this helps, Susan Cox 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/virus

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.05.10 at 20:04:23(10233) Dear Susan, I`m going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for our International Aroid Society! If you are or become a member ($20.00/year), you will have access to some fantastic information by authors like Dr. Eduardo Goncalves who, in the latest issue of our journal '"Aroideaea" published a most interesting paper on this group of Philodendron species. In the previous journal there was another paper also with great information, photos and illustrations also on species within this group of Philodendrons! In reading Eduardo`s note to you and the list, and reading his truncated 'key' to the species in this group, it would seem to me that based on his comments about P. mello-barretoanum, with its hard scales on its stem that do not easily detach (I have received a pretty severe laceration on my hand caused by my careless handling of a plant by these spine/knife-like scales!!), it, and NOT p. bipinnatifidum is the species in massive tissue-culture cultivation here in the U.S.A. As seen in the latest issue of Aroideana, our paper describing P. xanadu as a good species, hehein S. Florida the 'local' and very common Philodendron which is sold locally as P. 'selloum' but which for years was thought to be P. bipinnatifidum, has a huge spathe with a green exterior, and persistent and HARD spines on its stem. Eduardo says that in true P. bipinnatifidum the spathe can vary in color, so my question is what color spathe does P. mello-barretoanum have? Remember, my friends, the study of aroids is far from complete, we are learning new 'stuff' every day! Julius +More WPB, Florida. > Leslie, > > When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered P. > selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was going to get > totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but from > what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are synonomous. I > think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, Sao > Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for someone > else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that is very > similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a > different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? > Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. > > Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be interested > in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. > > > Hope this helps, > Susan Cox > > > 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: > > >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum > and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, > they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before > planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, > what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > >

From: "Ron" ronlene at adelphia.net> on 2003.05.11 at 13:53:02(10235) Hi, I'm a member and enjoy the various Amorphophallus Species. At last year's show in Miami, I purchased several un-named "tubers" from a man from Thailand. Several of them are now in leaf. Who can I email the photos to to try to identify the tubers. Some of them are very unusual. Ron Kessler 561-499-4910 Florida +More ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 2:34 PM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum > > > Dear Susan, > > I`m going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for our International > Aroid Society! If you are or become a member ($20.00/year), you will have > access to some fantastic information by authors like Dr. Eduardo Goncalves > who, in the latest issue of our journal '"Aroideaea" published a most > interesting paper on this group of Philodendron species. In the previous > journal there was another paper also with great information, photos and > illustrations also on species within this group of Philodendrons! > In reading Eduardo`s note to you and the list, and reading his truncated > 'key' to the species in this group, it would seem to me that based on his > comments about P. mello-barretoanum, with its hard scales on its stem that > do not easily detach (I have received a pretty severe laceration on my hand > caused by my careless handling of a plant by these spine/knife-like > scales!!), it, and NOT p. bipinnatifidum is the species in massive > tissue-culture cultivation here in the U.S.A. As seen in the latest issue > of Aroideana, our paper describing P. xanadu as a good species, hehein S. > Florida the 'local' and very common Philodendron which is sold locally as P. > 'selloum' but which for years was thought to be P. bipinnatifidum, has a > huge spathe with a green exterior, and persistent and HARD spines on its > stem. Eduardo says that in true P. bipinnatifidum the spathe can vary in > color, so my question is what color spathe does P. mello-barretoanum have? > Remember, my friends, the study of aroids is far from complete, we are > learning new 'stuff' every day! > > Julius > WPB, Florida. > > > Leslie, > > > > When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered P. > > selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was going > to get > > totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but > from > > what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are > synonomous. I > > think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, > Sao > > Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for > someone > > else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that is > very > > similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a > > different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? > > Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. > > > > Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be > interested > > in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > Susan Cox > > > > > > 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: > > > > >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron > Selloum > > and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of > seed, > > they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification > before > > planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. > So, > > what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" hetter at worldonline.nl> on 2003.05.11 at 18:39:07(10236) Why not mail them to Lord P. at hetter@worldonline.nl You'll at least get a well educated guess........ Wilbert +More > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu > [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu]Namens Ron > Verzonden: zondag 11 mei 2003 15:53 > Aan: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu > Onderwerp: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum > > > Hi, I'm a member and enjoy the various Amorphophallus > Species. At last > year's show in Miami, I purchased several un-named "tubers" > from a man from > Thailand. Several of them are now in leaf. Who can I email > the photos to to > try to identify the tubers. Some of them are very unusual. > Ron Kessler > 561-499-4910 Florida > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julius Boos" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 4:04 PM > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Susan" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 2:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum > > > > > > Dear Susan, > > > > I`m going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for our > International > > Aroid Society! If you are or become a member > ($20.00/year), you will > have > > access to some fantastic information by authors like Dr. > Eduardo Goncalves > > who, in the latest issue of our journal '"Aroideaea" > published a most > > interesting paper on this group of Philodendron species. > In the previous > > journal there was another paper also with great > information, photos and > > illustrations also on species within this group of Philodendrons! > > In reading Eduardo`s note to you and the list, and reading > his truncated > > 'key' to the species in this group, it would seem to me > that based on his > > comments about P. mello-barretoanum, with its hard scales > on its stem that > > do not easily detach (I have received a pretty severe > laceration on my > hand > > caused by my careless handling of a plant by these spine/knife-like > > scales!!), it, and NOT p. bipinnatifidum is the species in massive > > tissue-culture cultivation here in the U.S.A. As seen in > the latest > issue > > of Aroideana, our paper describing P. xanadu as a good > species, hehein S. > > Florida the 'local' and very common Philodendron which is > sold locally as > P. > > 'selloum' but which for years was thought to be P. > bipinnatifidum, has a > > huge spathe with a green exterior, and persistent and HARD > spines on its > > stem. Eduardo says that in true P. bipinnatifidum the > spathe can vary > in > > color, so my question is what color spathe does P. > mello-barretoanum have? > > Remember, my friends, the study of aroids is far from > complete, we are > > learning new 'stuff' every day! > > > > Julius > > WPB, Florida. > > > > > Leslie, > > > > > > When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first > time, I ordered > P. > > > selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I > thought I was > going > > to get > > > totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on > all of this, but > > from > > > what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are > > synonomous. I > > > think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf > philodendron. However, > > Sao > > > Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, > but this is for > > someone > > > else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved > Pilodendron that > is > > very > > > similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that > P. lundii is a > > > different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more > compact, bushy? > > > Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a > trunk in time. > > > > > > Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. > I would be > > interested > > > in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > Susan Cox > > > > > > > > > 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson > wrote: > > > > > > >Could someone please tell me what the difference between > Philodendron > > Selloum > > > and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet > of each type of > > seed, > > > they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs > stratification > > before > > > planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to > be identical. > > So, > > > what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.05.18 at 19:46:43(10268) My dear friend Julius, Just to answer your comments: Yes, I have seen real P. bipinnatifidum in USA (mostly in Botanical Gardens), but considering you have a better sampling of cultivated material, I wouldn?t be surprised if P. mello-barretoanum was the main cultivated big Philo there in USA. Philodendron mello-barretoanum was spread in Brazil by Roberto Burle-Marx, that was part of a very active group of plant traders there in Florida, so there was time enough to spread this plant for nurseries coast to coast. I have seen in the wild only plants of P. mello-barretoanum with a pure green spathe, but a few cultivated material have a spathe that is purplish outside (mainly along the margins), so this aspect can be easily selected by growers. Growers can do anything! Very best wishes, Eduardo. +More Dear Susan, I`m going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for our International Aroid Society! If you are or become a member ($20.00/year), you will have access to some fantastic information by authors like Dr. Eduardo Goncalves who, in the latest issue of our journal '"Aroideaea" published a most interesting paper on this group of Philodendron species. In the previous journal there was another paper also with great information, photos and illustrations also on species within this group of Philodendrons! In reading Eduardo`s note to you and the list, and reading his truncated 'key' to the species in this group, it would seem to me that based on his comments about P. mello-barretoanum, with its hard scales on its stem that do not easily detach (I have received a pretty severe laceration on my hand caused by my careless handling of a plant by these spine/knife-like scales!!), it, and NOT p. bipinnatifidum is the species in massive tissue-culture cultivation here in the U.S.A. As seen in the latest issue of Aroideana, our paper describing P. xanadu as a good species, hehein S. Florida the 'local' and very common Philodendron which is sold locally as P. 'selloum' but which for years was thought to be P. bipinnatifidum, has a huge spathe with a green exterior, and persistent and HARD spines on its stem. Eduardo says that in true P. bipinnatifidum the spathe can vary in color, so my question is what color spathe does P. mello-barretoanum have? Remember, my friends, the study of aroids is far from complete, we are learning new 'stuff' every day! Julius WPB, Florida. > Leslie, > > When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered P. > selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was going to get > totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but from > what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are synonomous. I > think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, Sao > Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for someone > else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that is very > similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a > different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? > Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. > > Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be interested > in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. > > > Hope this helps, > Susan Cox > > > 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: > > >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron Selloum > and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of seed, > they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification before > planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. So, > what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/junkmail

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.07.13 at 19:35:08(10394) My Dear Friend Eduardo, I have just forwarded you two notes concerning the possible ID of a Xanthosoma here in Florida to you, and I hope that after you have read them and seen the photo (in the second note) you will be able to help by giving your opinion! I hope that you are well and happy, and that this gets to you OK, as it has been a while since I have heard from you. Concerning the Philodendron issue which we briefly discussed (below), would it be safe to assume that since ALL the Philo. 'selloum' that are being produced by the million by tissue culture here in Florida and being sold into the landscaping trade all have very pronounced intravaginal squamules, they are in fact P. mello-barettoanum and not P. bipinnatifidium, which you report usually does NOT have these structures? The plants here all have a green spathe (see the recent paper on P. xanadu) , but may have just a thin line of purplish color along the very edge, I am not certain of this. Perhaps in the near future we should collaborate on a paper concerning the correct identification of this very important plant to commerce here in Florida? A paper is certainly needed. I look forward to hearing from you when you may have a moment. Your Friend, Julius +More >>My dear friend Julius, Just to answer your comments: Yes, I have seen real P. bipinnatifidum in USA (mostly in Botanical Gardens), but considering you have a better sampling of cultivated material, I wouldn?t be surprised if P. mello-barretoanum was the main cultivated big Philo there in USA. Philodendron mello-barretoanum was spread in Brazil by Roberto Burle-Marx, that was part of a very active group of plant traders there in Florida, so there was time enough to spread this plant for nurseries coast to coast. I have seen in the wild only plants of P. mello-barretoanum with a pure green spathe, but a few cultivated material have a spathe that is purplish outside (mainly along the margins), so this aspect can be easily selected by growers. Growers can do anything! Very best wishes, Eduardo. >Dear Susan, > >I`m going to take this opportunity to put in a plug for our International >Aroid Society! If you are or become a member ($20.00/year), you will >have >access to some fantastic information by authors like Dr. Eduardo Goncalves >who, in the latest issue of our journal '"Aroideaea" published a most >interesting paper on this group of Philodendron species. In the previous >journal there was another paper also with great information, photos and >illustrations also on species within this group of Philodendrons! >In reading Eduardo`s note to you and the list, and reading his truncated >'key' to the species in this group, it would seem to me that based on his >comments about P. mello-barretoanum, with its hard scales on its stem that >do not easily detach (I have received a pretty severe laceration on my hand >caused by my careless handling of a plant by these spine/knife-like >scales!!), it, and NOT p. bipinnatifidum is the species in massive >tissue-culture cultivation here in the U.S.A. As seen in the latest >issue >of Aroideana, our paper describing P. xanadu as a good species, hehein S. >Florida the 'local' and very common Philodendron which is sold locally as >P. >'selloum' but which for years was thought to be P. bipinnatifidum, has a >huge spathe with a green exterior, and persistent and HARD spines on its >stem. Eduardo says that in true P. bipinnatifidum the spathe can vary in >color, so my question is what color spathe does P. mello-barretoanum have? >Remember, my friends, the study of aroids is far from complete, we are >learning new 'stuff' every day! > >Julius >WPB, Florida. > > > Leslie, > > > > When I ordered philodendron from Alvim Seidel the first time, I ordered >P. > > selloum, P. bipinnatifidum, and also P. Sao Paulo. I thought I was >going >to get > > totally different plants. I don't know if I'm right on all of this, but >from > > what I've been able to figure out, selloum and bipinnatifidum are >synonomous. I > > think Sao Paulo is another variety of splitleaf philodendron. However, >Sao > > Paulo might be just another name for P. bipinnatifidum, but this is for >someone > > else to say. This year I ordered another split leaved Pilodendron that >is >very > > similar to these three called P. lundii. I did find that P. lundii is a > > different 'looking' form of bipinnatifidum. Maybe more compact, bushy? > > Selloum/bipinnatifidum will grow into a tree form with a trunk in time. > > > > Someone else on the list might be able to clear this up. I would be >interested > > in knowing the true facts on the splitleaf philodendrons also. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > Susan Cox > > > > > > 5/8/03 6:15:22 AM, Leslie Georgeson wrote: > > > > >Could someone please tell me what the difference between Philodendron >Selloum > > and Philodendron Bipinnafididum is? I ordered a packet of each type of >seed, > > they look the same, but the Bipinnatifidum says it needs stratification >before > > planting. When I researched these plants, they appear to be identical. >So, > > what, exactly, do I have? Thank you! Leslie > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pageþatures/junkmail

From: "Derek Burch" derek at horticulturist.com> on 2003.07.17 at 07:35:17(10403) The Editor of 'Aroideana' says "yes, please" to such a paper, both for that publication, and because it would be great to have it sorted out once and for all for Florida. (Is there such a thing as 'once and for all' in taxonomy?) Derek p.s to Eduardo I would like to repeat my recent question to you publicly. The @selloum-type@ that we were working around at The Living Rainforest had a very different smell to its leaves from that to which I am accustomed in the common Florida plants. Any comments on odor as a taxonomic character?

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.07.17 at 23:18:49(10404) Dear Derek, I will certainly work toward making this happen, Eduardo is in the field at the moment, but I should hear from him on his return to 'civilization'. Where is the site that you mention ('The Living Rainforest') located?? I`d like to see and smell the plants that smell different to our 'regular' P. 'selloum'! I`d request that anyone who may know of a plant collection that just MAY have some of the VERY old collections of Philodendrons to please contact me w/ their suggestions, I`d love to see some 'pre-tissue culture' specimens of P. 'selloum'. Good Growing to all, Julius +More >>The Editor of 'Aroideana' says "yes, please" to such a paper, both for that publication, and because it would be great to have it sorted out once and for all for Florida. (Is there such a thing as 'once and for all' in taxonomy?) Derek p.s to Eduardo I would like to repeat my recent question to you publicly. The @selloum-type@ that we were working around at The Living Rainforest had a very different smell to its leaves from that to which I am accustomed in the common Florida plants. Any comments on odor as a taxonomic character?

From: "Derek Burch" derek at horticulturist.com> on 2003.07.18 at 07:37:22(10406) Dear Julius, The Living Rainforest is in Berkshire about 40 miles west of London, and is where I am now. We will be doing a house swap in Dorset for the whole of August, so if you could make your way across there would be a bed and a warm welcome for you, plus my service as a chauffeur on the 'smelling test'. +More This is an old collection (you may remember reading about it in a newsletter a year or so back) with huge plants in great shape of many aroids, Myles Challis, the curator, spoke to you about some of his material and I think that you helped out with cultural instructions on some of the emergent semi-aquatic types. The offer of a bed is a serious one, although I realise that it is not an easy one to take up. See you in September when I get back, failing that.Best wishes, Derek -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:19 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Burch To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum Dear Derek, I will certainly work toward making this happen, Eduardo is in the field at the moment, but I should hear from him on his return to 'civilization'. Where is the site that you mention ('The Living Rainforest') located?? I`d like to see and smell the plants that smell different to our 'regular' P. 'selloum'! I`d request that anyone who may know of a plant collection that just MAY have some of the VERY old collections of Philodendrons to please contact me w/ their suggestions, I`d love to see some 'pre-tissue culture' specimens of P. 'selloum'. Good Growing to all, Julius >>The Editor of 'Aroideana' says "yes, please" to such a paper, both for that publication, and because it would be great to have it sorted out once and for all for Florida. (Is there such a thing as 'once and for all' in taxonomy?) Derek p.s to Eduardo I would like to repeat my recent question to you publicly. The @selloum-type@ that we were working around at The Living Rainforest had a very different smell to its leaves from that to which I am accustomed in the common Florida plants. Any comments on odor as a taxonomic character?

From: "Julius Boos" ju-bo at msn.com> on 2003.07.18 at 17:28:51(10408) Dear Derek, The name DID ring a bell, but I was unable to 'pull it up'! Old age is no fun! :--)> Please give my very best to Myles! If you could be so kind, please check out the 'stem' of these strange-smelling Philodendrons, true P. bipinnatifidium is said to have smooth stems w/ NO intravaginal squamules (the spine-like structures found at the interniodes), while P. mello-barretoanum is said to be THE one w/ these spine-like structures very well developed, which would make ALL the P. 'selloums' sold in Florida this species. If in bloom, pics of the spathes (and details of spadices) would be great also, the locally grown P. 'selloum' here has a large (+- 24") mainly green spathe. Oh how I wish I were able to take you up on your kind offer, I have not visited the UK in 44 years! I still remember Kew and the British Museum. See you soon! The Very Best, Julius +More >>Dear Julius, The Living Rainforest is in Berkshire about 40 miles west of London, and is where I am now. We will be doing a house swap in Dorset for the whole of August, so if you could make your way across there would be a bed and a warm welcome for you, plus my service as a chauffeur on the 'smelling test'. This is an old collection (you may remember reading about it in a newsletter a year or so back) with huge plants in great shape of many aroids, Myles Challis, the curator, spoke to you about some of his material and I think that you helped out with cultural instructions on some of the emergent semi-aquatic types. The offer of a bed is a serious one, although I realise that it is not an easy one to take up. See you in September when I get back, failing that.Best wishes, Derek<< -----Original Message----- From: aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu [mailto:aroid-l-owner@lists.ncsu.edu] On Behalf Of Julius Boos Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:19 PM To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek Burch To: aroid-l@lists.ncsu.edu Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [aroid-l] Selloum/Bipinnatifidum Dear Derek, I will certainly work toward making this happen, Eduardo is in the field at the moment, but I should hear from him on his return to 'civilization'. Where is the site that you mention ('The Living Rainforest') located?? I`d like to see and smell the plants that smell different to our 'regular' P. 'selloum'! I`d request that anyone who may know of a plant collection that just MAY have some of the VERY old collections of Philodendrons to please contact me w/ their suggestions, I`d love to see some 'pre-tissue culture' specimens of P. 'selloum'. Good Growing to all, Julius >>The Editor of 'Aroideana' says "yes, please" to such a paper, both for that publication, and because it would be great to have it sorted out once and for all for Florida. (Is there such a thing as 'once and for all' in taxonomy?) Derek p.s to Eduardo I would like to repeat my recent question to you publicly. The @selloum-type@ that we were working around at The Living Rainforest had a very different smell to its leaves from that to which I am accustomed in the common Florida plants. Any comments on odor as a taxonomic character?

From: "Eduardo Goncalves" edggon at hotmail.com> on 2003.08.04 at 18:24:28(10473) Dear Derek, Sorry for the long silence, but I was in a field trip in Amazonia. Well, I haven?t used the smell as a character because I have no way to establish an appropriate nomenclature to describe it, and it is even harder to see in herbarium sheets than thorns in stems. Well, if you use the key I published in the last Aroideana in adult plants, I think it is possible to see what is being sold in USA. I have seen P. bipinnatifidum and P. mello-barretoanum growing in USA, but my sampling is restricted to Botanical Gardens (that potentially can grow old and wild-collected stocks). I have no way to say what species is being widely produced and tissue-cultured in USA, because I am not there. Anyhow, I think that any of you can do it using my key. I can even help, if needed. As an interesting example of how names can be misapplied ad infinitum happened the last time I was in USA. I could see that virtually every material comercially grown in Miami area as Xanthosoma sagittifolium is, in fact, Xanthosoma robustum. Old species are usually the most confused! +More Very best wishes, Eduardo. The Editor of 'Aroideana' says "yes, please" to such a paper, both for that publication, and because it would be great to have it sorted out once and for all for Florida. (Is there such a thing as 'once and for all' in taxonomy?) Derek p.s to Eduardo I would like to repeat my recent question to you publicly. The @selloum-type@ that we were working around at The Living Rainforest had a very different smell to its leaves from that to which I am accustomed in the common Florida plants. Any comments on odor as a taxonomic character? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail, o maior webmail do Brasil. http://www.hotmail.com

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